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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Ach » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:51 pm

theHotHead wrote:In the words of The singer Gloria Jones .....

"First I ran to you, now I run from you" - from the song Tainted Love

I suspect most real Arsenal fans feel its a tainted love for Wenger.

Yup. Everything he did for arsenal is overshadowed by what he did to arsenal.

He's gone. How he does from now on, don't care. Unlike some I'm arsenal fan, not Arsene fan
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby theHotHead » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:50 pm

Exactly. His legacy its tainted and that's not what we wanted, those of us that wanted him to leave wanted him to leave on a high.

I don't see how any real Arsenal fan can see it any other way. That said there were quite a few Arsenal fans that wanted him gone and hoped his reputation was ruined .... for being a selfish prick. While I don't agree with that I do agree its a valid argument.
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Sims » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:08 pm

imo things only started going sour when we could start spending money properly again and we were still shite

a bad 4/5 years for me where he still won 3 fa cups doesnt taint his legacy at all for me, especially seeing as he's unquestionably our best manager of all time
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby theHotHead » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:18 pm

Your opinion and of course you are entitled to it. However I do want to take issue with your comment that he has only been able to spend money for the past 4/5 years. He spent money before, he just spent it badly and lets not forget our spiralling wage bill - with worse quality players coming in to the club.

Finally not being able to spend money doesn't excuse his numerous tactical defficiencies and dufusness. So in my opinion, it was more like a bad 8 years !!
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Marsbar100 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:27 pm

He was poor post Emirates , luckily he still benefited from the good recruitment he had in place from pre Emirates but he was atrocious post 2008, it was 9 bad years at least.

He was shocking tactically, shocking keeping players fit, shocking with contracts, embarrising transfer attempts, shocking player profile he went for, just bordering on sabotage.

He still is our greatest manager, a legend but anyone makeing him out whiter than white has got their head up their arse, he defrauded the fans just like the owners and cronies on the board.

He would still be leaching for another 5 years if he had his way.
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Sims » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:41 pm

theHotHead wrote:Your opinion and of course you are entitled to it. However I do want to take issue with your comment that he has only been able to spend money for the past 4/5 years. He spent money before, he just spent it badly and lets not forget our spiralling wage bill - with worse quality players coming in to the club.

Finally not being able to spend money doesn't excuse his numerous tactical defficiencies and dufusness. So in my opinion, it was more like a bad 8 years !!


I would say that we were only able to spend big per se on one player when we bought Mesut. Our transfer record at the time was still Arshavin/Wiltord/Santi at around £15m. By that point Chelsea already spent double that on Drogba in 04/05, Liverpool spent ~£30m on Torres in 07/08, United already bought Rio for £30m in 01/02, City spent £35m on Robinho in 2008. Even Spurs bought Darren Bent for just over £20m

We were always a few million shy of purchasing some great players that we were unquestionably after. Xabi Alonso didn't happen because the Gareth Barry transfer to Liverpool fell through, we couldn't afford to pay the extra 1/2m for the likes of Juan Mata, and we missed out on Hazard because he was simply out of our price bracket and had to settle for Gervinho and other bargain basement, terrible purchases

Our finances were tricky in that era as we could allow a gradual wage increase (hence why some shitters were on high wages) but couldn't pay outright fees, large instalments also being a difficulty. We're still somewhat hamstrung now in regards to finances, our projected budget in the window is just under £50m. Add to that Arsene gradually lost the understanding of the French market due to everyone else fishing in there and without a David Dein figure next to him he didn't want to pull the trigger on some potential moves.

I think up until the 2010's we somewhat overachieved with the talent and money at our disposal, we should've won the League in 07/08 really which in my opinion would've been one of the best years of Arsene's career given how little the squad cost to assemble and how young they are. After that he was losing his touch, some dodgy purchases with 'new' money and no-one really there to take the power out of the hands of an old bloke who had to manage 4 departments at once which simply isn't viable in modern football.

Tactically of course he lost his touch, that started after the 2005 FA Cup final when he decided that he didn't want to adjust and play negative football despite beating United in a game we thoroughly didn't deserve to win. He still had some standout moments tactically though, the entire 06 CL campaign with Senderos at CB with Flamini at left back holding the record for the longest run of clean sheets in the competition is a defensive masterclass that should go down in history. 07/08 produced imo the most aesthetically pleasing and entertaining football the Prem has ever seen. Even the FA Cup win against Chelsea was a perfect team performance in which he should be credited.

Overall I don't think it was 8 years of shit, we've had some success which some clubs - cough spurs cough - would dream about, f**k me even Liverpool would've probably have loved to have 3 FA Cups in that time than taking an L in every final they've faced with a manager whose supposed to be a tactical genius. I'm not defending Arsene in the last few years because he was genuinely awful as a coach, we looked utterly clueless, but I think fast forward 5/6 years history will look back at it not being TOO bad. It's just because it's the first season that he's gone, we still have awful memories of that f***ing blue kit from last season. When he's sitting at the Emirates watching us play when he's near his 80's and a statue outside the ground, he'll only be remembered for the great things he did for Arsenal and how he changed the club forever imo

just some sour taste left in some people's mouthes which is totally understandable
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Marsbar100 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:57 pm

My only issue with him is I don't think he tried his best all the time, I don't buy that he couldn't have spent a little bit more money if he wanted to during the years.

We had summers where we made profits where we didn't even re-invest, no one could have predicted city would have popped and we would have made 45m on adebayor and toure this wouldn't have been part of the Emirates repayment plan as you cant plan for that, so why not reinvest that money.

We had a decent team that probably could have won the title if he reinvested 09-10 was a dead year with Ronaldo just leaving united, winnable title year.

Everythig points to he was helping the k*** kroenke build up them cash reserves, money that might never be reinvested into the club now that yank c*** has full ownership.

The fact he did Jack shit in 15-16 when we know he could have spent money backs up that he was happy to work for the bosses.

I can see why you say he did well because he did ok for handicapping himself, he could have won another 2 titles minimum if he didn't handicap himself, 2 is being kind 4 is being realistic
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Sims » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:03 pm

theres still a part of me that felt he was taking bullets for kroenke and co. he didnt wanna put the board in the firing line which wouldve got himself sacked - and he probs wouldve failed at another big club imo which is a reason why he didnt - and he didnt want to turn the fans against the club. the latter ended up happening but it probably shouldve been waaaaay sooner

if he ever releases an autobiography i hope he doesnt protect anyone and just tells everyone the honest truth, especially from when david dein left up until his eventual departure, as theres so many aspects as to why we dropped off and it would clear up a lot of shit once and for all
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby theHotHead » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:08 pm

Kudos for rhe CL run to the final. But thats the point, he tactically changed things that season, we didn't go gung ho away from home like we usually did and avoided getting those familiar arse whoopings. He played 1 up top away from home and it worked a treat, securing victories away to Real Madrid and Juve, en route to the final.

It took him 7 years to take heed of the pundits that claimed Arsenal were too open against Europe's elite.
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Ach » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:54 pm

The day he decided to become an accountant over a manager is the day his legacy diminished
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Andrew » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:50 pm

tick tock

The day is coming when even the biggest Wenger hater will be calling for him to come back.

We can wait . We‘re wealthy and patient
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Ach » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:50 pm

16 unbeaten

Bye Wenger
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby starmandb » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:54 pm

Andrew wrote:tick tock

The day is coming when even the biggest Wenger hater will be calling for him to come back.

We can wait . We‘re wealthy and patient

Last time Wenger was in the dug out v wolves 1-1
He should have been sacked 12 weeks before
Once you,ve had chamakh you never go back
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby theHotHead » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:39 pm

starmandb wrote:
Andrew wrote:tick tock

The day is coming when even the biggest Wenger hater will be calling for him to come back.

We can wait . We‘re wealthy and patient

Last time Wenger was in the dug out v wolves 1-1
He should have been sacked 12 weeks before
Once you,ve had chamakh you never go back

:rofll:
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Re: Merci Arsène

Postby Ach » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:03 am

Former Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger rejected the chance to replace Slavisa Jokanovic as Fulham boss before Claudio Ranieri was appointed. (Daily Mirror)
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