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Arsène Wenger's Legacy

Postby alexafc12 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:24 am

Whenever Wenger is quizzed about his retirement plans, he traditionally responds vaguely, however always mentions his desire to leave his successor with a ready made world class stadium, youth setup and a squad in their prime.

Is this the case? From the outside I would say yes. He will leave behind a legacy of transforming us into one of the most visually beautiful teams in world football. He's overseen the construction of an industry-leading multi-million pound stadium, whilst maintaining Champions League football. But when we look deeper, has Wenger now ruined a lot of what he built? There are so many points we could consider, however for now I will stick to in my opinion, the three main ones. The Stadium, The youth setup, and the current squad.

The Stadium - :arsenal3:

Wenger, an economist himself, understood the importance of creating a sustainable model which would allow us to be self-financed and remain competitive during the global economic recession. As such, we saw him oversee the construction of the Emirates stadium which would allow us to generate more revenue from match day and corporate events. Unfortunately Wenger didn't anticipate top-flight Engllish Football remaining largely unaffected by the recession, and this coupled with foreign investment saw the inflation of player transfers and wages. During these years we operated on a reduced budget but Wenger managed to maintain Champions League status. A great achievement honestly.

However modern day, the stadium has largely been paid off and we are now able to compete again for household names. The question is was the 12 years of sacrifice worth it?

We were and still are charged the highest ticket prices in world football. Just let that sink in. A team who hasn't won their domestic title in 12 years. And has NEVER won the major European trophy. Charging the highest ticket prices in world football. Disgusting. We see the likes of Spurs, Lpool, Chelsea, Everton and WHam all in the advanced stages of agreeing new stadiums. The additional revenue from sponsors and TV rights, combined with the young, promising teams they have assesmbled suggests they may well be able to remain competitive. If so, what does that mean for Arsenal? Will the Emirates now just be the norm for English football Stadia?

Is the Emirates even any good? A stadium which has priced out many traditional Arsenal fans and as such has one of the worst atmospheres in the league... I honestly preferred Highbury.

The Youth: :arse flag.gif:

Perhaps as a result of trying to juggle so many responsibilities, or perhaps just down to complacency (probably the latter), we have seen our prestiged Hale End Academy fall down the pecking order, and narrowly escape losing its 'Class A' status coupled with our reserves team being relegated last season.

Dinosaur mentality at the club saw the majority of coaching positions filled internally, which whilst good in retaining club culture, failed to bring in new ideas or source in any top coaches from around the world. Brady, albeit a wonderful player, was very much a nationalistic leader, and there were even claims of racism on multiple occasions. English players were often given clear favoritism and there became a reluctance to pay the going rate to source external talent.

Players were all taught the 'Arsenal way' which resulted in us producing clones of over-pampered, technically however tactically inept youths who never really stood a chance of becoming world class players. We had many players excel at youth level, however the over emphasis placed on the technical side of the game seemingly saw many players unable to make the grade at professional level. The failure to compete for top talent, bring in top international coaches, and develop the tactical side of the game has seen us fail to develop any real noteworthy talents in the past 12 years... Wilshere the only one who springs to mind. The loan system was/is also largely flawed. Players were often loaned to the highest bidder, and has often seen many of our players without game time.

Hope lies with the appointment of Jonker, and with him the arrival of new external coaches and analysts to turn the fortunes around. Positive signs have been seen with Jonker given more authority and outbidding the likes of Chelsea, Bayern and United for talents over the past 2 years.

The current squad: :arse fan:

An ageing back four will see the likes of Mertesacker, Kos, Monreal and Cech needing to be replaced in the next 3-4 years. Are Gibbs, Ospina, Chambers and Gabriel good enough to replace them? A lack of real defensive talent in the youth setup means they're the only internal options.

With Arteta, Flamini and Rosicky set to leave this summer, and Cazorla either this or next we are in need of a complete overhaul in midfield. Is Elneny good enough to play for a club with ambitions to be an elite club? Can Wilshere remain fit? Is Wenger going to be the man to do this? There is a lack of a true world-class striker who can score 30 goals a season. Are players like Welbeck and Walcott good enough?

The British core - Perhaps rocked by the departures of key players during the early post-Emirates he wants to add stability and cohesion. However has Wenger bought the wrong Brits? Walcott, Ramsey, Chamberlain, Chambers, Welbeck and Jenkinson at a combined total of around £65m, in comparison to the likes off Bale, Smalling, Sterling, Butland, Stones, Gomez and Alli at a combined total of around £25m. The lack of development in the majority of our Brits suggest this is a real possibility.

Are our players over-pampered? A lack of a high-performance culture sees players rewarded with new lucrative contracts without showing any real deserving. Walcott springs to mind.

Do we even play attractive football anymore in comparison to that of old?

A final thought: Whilst I will always remain grateful of all the good Wenger has done for us, I feel he is clinging on to his past success. The club is so far behind many of the top European clubs on many levels that it paints a worrying picture for the future.

What legacy will Wenger leave behind?

- A beautiful, yet atmosphereless stadium which charges the highest ticket prices in world football. Is 60,000 soon to be the norm?
- A faltering youth academy.
- Will Alexis and Ozil have extended their contracts?
- A team who no longer players the most attractive football (is our football really that attractive at all).
- An ageing defense, a midfield in need of an overhaul and lackluster strike force.

Success or Failure? I certainly think Wenger's successor will have his work cut out for him.

(Sorry for the length I got carried away)
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby UFGN » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:34 am

On the issue of the stadium, there is one group of people who never get the credit for it, and thats the fans.

We paid for it.

As for the 60,000 capacity, its nothing special and will be equaled by pretty much all our rivals soon enough. This level of attendance is nothing new. Big clubs are only returning to capacities they had pre 1994 (Taylor Report)

So in hindsight, what have we gained? Nothing much except to stand still.

There is however one thing that Arsenal did differently, and that is we got ours done early. Now, I never bought the argument that we couldn't afford xyz player because of the stadium debt, back when that was WKB's excuse of choice for buying f**k all. I said at the time it was a myth and I still hold that opinion. But lets play along for a minute.

So we couldn't afford to compete back when we were paying off the stadium debt, :crybaby:

but now Filth and Chavs are building and the Liverpool, Everton and West Ham are upgrading or will soon......

So RIGHT NOW should be the time when we seize the advantage and flex the muscles we were told we'd have. RIGHT NOW is when we should be going for the kill.

Mohamed Elneny. £8 Million.

Er, yeah.

f**k Arsene Wenger and his legacy
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby Bixer » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:57 am

Yeah I hate to say it, but it's getting past the point now where we can say in years to come we'll overlook the past decade of underachievement and remember him for the good he did in the late 90s/early 00s. Now when he leaves unfortunately I think Mourinho's summary of him will be the overriding memory - a specialist in failure.

He was way too much control over absolutely everything and he's become bigger than the club, which should never have been allowed to happen. We're no longer Arsenal FC, we've become Arsene Wenger FC. I for one can't wait until he leaves and we become Arsenal FC again.
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby coach8smallball » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:59 pm

his legacy is front loaded
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby Arsene Nose » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:03 pm

How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby coach8smallball » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:08 pm

Arsene Nose wrote:How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.


again front loaded with exception to the last 2 fa cups. and granted had an undefeated season....how many more titles should that team have won?
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby Arsene Nose » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:17 pm

coach8smallball wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.


again front loaded with exception to the last 2 fa cups. and granted had an undefeated season....how many more titles should that team have won?

Ok but then don't use the word legacy. A legacy is what you leave behind. It doesn't make a difference if it was front or rear loaded, it is what it is. Use another word to communicate your point.
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby dolan » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:54 pm

Arsene Nose wrote:How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.


3 PL titles in 20 years. What a great manager.
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby Cripps » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:01 pm

Will he be known for his trophies or the fact he stayed too long and have all Arsenal fans turn on him?

100 years from now when someone asks another guy at the stadium close to where I'll be sitting "who was Arsene Wenger?" The answer will probably be "isn't he the guy who took the invincible team and destroyed it within few years? To which the first guy will reply "Wenger was manager for the invincible so? f**k off. How did someone as inept as him manage that side?"

And I'll be listening to this thinking about this era and all the pain it has caused.

The 70 CLs we win from 2027 to 2097 does nothing to ease the pain.
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby coach8smallball » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:08 pm

Arsene Nose wrote:
coach8smallball wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.


again front loaded with exception to the last 2 fa cups. and granted had an undefeated season....how many more titles should that team have won?

Ok but then don't use the word legacy. A legacy is what you leave behind. It doesn't make a difference if it was front or rear loaded, it is what it is. Use another word to communicate your point.


i'll use whatever word I choose, thank you very little.....
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby UFGN » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:12 pm

Community Shields?

Lol

Not a trophy, end of.
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby coach8smallball » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:13 pm

UFGN wrote:Community Shields?

Lol

Not a trophy, end of.


you can't even piss in it
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby UFGN » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:17 pm

Arsene Nose wrote:How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.


His games per trophy ratio is shite
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby Arsene Nose » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:25 pm

UFGN wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.


His games per trophy ratio is shite

Never heard of a games per trophy ratio but there's always a first time. How about you put your money where your mouth is and share with us an analysis of games to trophies of all managers with over 1000 games to their name? Would be keen to see if you can prove his games to trophy ratio is shite.
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Re: Wenger's Legacy - Failure?

Postby UFGN » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:28 pm

Arsene Nose wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:How can his legacy be a failure when he's won 3 premier leagues, 6 fa cups, 6 community shields and gone an entire season unbeaten? He holds some of the most prestigious records in English football.


His games per trophy ratio is shite

Never heard of a games per trophy ratio but there's always a first time. How about you put your money where your mouth is and share with us an analysis of games to trophies of all managers with over 1000 games to their name? Would be keen to see if you can prove his games to trophy ratio is shite.


Well for a start, Wenger Out thread page one, post one

You can update the figures for 2016 if you like

Do let me know how you get on xx
Last edited by UFGN on Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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