How do we solve central midfield?

[Highbury Hillbilly]

Apparently Kroos may be on the market this summer. We've shown we can get Auba, Kroos wouldn't be out of our reach either.

Aleksandr Golovin at CSKA Moscow would be an effective CM replacement for Wilshere, and free up Ramsey to play a more attacking role.

Elneny should be starting all our games.

[ag6789]

Impossible to get Kroos with our standings. More realistic will be Golovin and Mata if available. We need replacement for Cazorla to control the passing in the middle.

[Arsene Nose]

Just get Kondogbia, never been massively sold on him but he is that exact type, athletic, big bruiser who's comfortable on the ball and can pass.

But Wenger stopped buying such players many moons ago. I mean a decade ago he constructed a midfield of diaby and denilson. He's not looking for bruisers. He's looking for players who can intercept passes and quickly play the ball out. He even instructed Xhaka not to slide tackle but stand and tackle. How is a Kondongbia going to fit into his thinking?

[Chill_Grimandi]

Apparently Kroos may be on the market this summer. We've shown we can get Auba, Kroos wouldn't be out of our reach either.

Aleksandr Golovin at CSKA Moscow would be an effective CM replacement for Wilshere, and free up Ramsey to play a more attacking role.

Elneny should be starting all our games.

We'd be worse with Kroos than Xhaka. Can't tackle.

Not that he'd come.

[SuperJackyWilshere]

So here's a controversial question -- do we really need a DM? Or could we do with another deep lying midfielder alongside Xhaka in a double pivot? The problem with Wilshere and Ramsey is they like to get forward leaving Xhaka alone to cover a wide area. Elneny is void of creativity. But if we got someone like Max Meyer with instructions to stay deep with Xhaka might that do?

The whole needing a defensive midfielder thing is very overrated.

Having a box to box is more important these days in my opinion.

Im almost 100% sure we'll see a complete overhaul in our midfield when someone new comes in anyway. Right now it's really unbalanced.

[Santi]

Madrid win league and CLs with Casemiro
Barca win many leagues and CLs with Busquets
Chelsea win title with Kante
Leicester win title with Kante
Man City win title with Fernandinho

How exactly is having a DM overrated? Don't tell me these players are B2B, Fernandinho is the only one close but he's been largely a DM all season.

[SuperJackyWilshere]

Kante and Fernandino are box to box, especially Kante. 100%. Both of them are everywhere on the pitch.

Busquets is more of a DLP.

Casemiro is the only genuine defensive midfielder there.

[Santi]

Box to box implies a player who actually contributes to the attacking play by getting into the opposition third and box. Ramsey is what a B2B player should look like (if he could be arsed to get back more often).

Kante is DM who, due to playing in a largely dominating team, may find himself making interceptions high up the pitch but he contributes practically zero to the attacking play. Fernandinho is a bit better cos he can actually pass but it's been the same role for him this season, break up the play and give it to Silva or KDB...contributing practically nothing to the attack again. He's scored 3 and assisted 5 in a free flowing all out attack team.
FYI Transfermakrt has him listed as 42 games at DM and 1 at CB. Not gospel but it's what it says.

Busquets again can pass but his role is to protect the defence, he's just the best DM out there because he can actually start and get involved in at attack. Again though it's limited and his random foray to the wing for a cross on Saturday doesn't make him a winger or anything. DLP is Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi imo.

[SuperJackyWilshere]

Box to box implies a player who actually contributes to the attacking play by getting into the opposition third and box. Ramsey is what a B2B player should look like (if he could be arsed to get back more often).

Kante is DM who, due to playing in a largely dominating team, may find himself making interceptions high up the pitch but he contributes practically zero to the attacking play. Fernandinho is a bit better cos he can actually pass but it's been the same role for him this season, break up the play and give it to Silva or KDB...contributing practically nothing to the attack again. He's scored 3 and assisted 5 in a free flowing all out attack team.
FYI Transfermakrt has him listed as 42 games at DM and 1 at CB. Not gospel but it's what it says.

Busquets again can pass but his role is to protect the defence, he's just the best DM out there because he can actually start and get involved in at attack. Again though it's limited and his random foray to the wing for a cross on Saturday doesn't make him a winger or anything. DLP is Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi imo.

But this is exactly what I mean. The term is overrated because the modern day "defensive midfielder" doesn't just sit there and defend. They have different attributes and roles depending on philosophies.

Kante is definitely a box to box though. His end product may not be fantastic in the final third but he's always in and around Chelseas attacks. Which is why you usually see him pop it off to Hazard or Willian/Pedro. If you don't watch him that often then ask any Chelsea fan and they will tell you the same. Plenty of stats, heat maps ect to back that up aswell.

We had the closest thing to a defensive midfielder in Coquelin but fans weren't happy with him so we ended up selling him.

Elneny? What's he? He's meant to be a defensive midfielder but his defending isn't that great. He's just full on energy and get's the ball moving.

So what do we need?

[Ach]

In what world is kante box to box?

Dear god.

[SuperJackyWilshere]

I know you probably don't know what a box to box is but that's okay. Here's the proof.

Two heat maps and his touches in a game.

Box to box.

[Ach]

Box to box implies a player who actually contributes to the attacking play by getting into the opposition third and box. Ramsey is what a B2B player should look like (if he could be arsed to get back more often).

Kante is DM who, due to playing in a largely dominating team, may find himself making interceptions high up the pitch but he contributes practically zero to the attacking play. Fernandinho is a bit better cos he can actually pass but it's been the same role for him this season, break up the play and give it to Silva or KDB...contributing practically nothing to the attack again. He's scored 3 and assisted 5 in a free flowing all out attack team.
FYI Transfermakrt has him listed as 42 games at DM and 1 at CB. Not gospel but it's what it says.

Busquets again can pass but his role is to protect the defence, he's just the best DM out there because he can actually start and get involved in at attack. Again though it's limited and his random foray to the wing for a cross on Saturday doesn't make him a winger or anything. DLP is Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi imo.

Luckily I read this before typing out pretty much the same thing other than the last paragraph.

Clear proof our lass AFC10 has never seen Kante play

[SuperJackyWilshere]

You mean you have zero response as usual because you can't hold a debate so you're happy to hide behind Mesut in hope he can reply.

[Santi]

I think we just have a different idea on what we class as a DM. Without knowing what games those heat maps are from they are meaningless, if they are Chelsea at home to Huddersfield it's a completely different story to Chelsea away at Man Utd for example. You really need a heat map over a 38 game season to prove a point and even then you can argue that Chelsea should be on the attack most of the time so even the more defensive minded midfielders and wing backs would be more likely on the attack in the opposition half.

Tbh if you even look at the touches map with yellows dots, notice that the majority of offensive touches are at least a few yards away from the opposition box and there are NONE in the box whatsoever, implying that these were just advanced positions due to attacking football. Really it's hard to take anything of note from those pictures. The majority of touches are in the middle third which is what I'd expect from a DM, a B2B would have a wider spread nearer each offensive/defensive third imo.

Best bet would honestly be a poll saying what position do you think Kante plays? What position do you think Fernandinho plays? etc. It's really quite subjective but I'm just stating my opinion that I think those guys are as close to DM's as you get in the modern game and ALL crucial in title winning sides although not the only factor (you still need a world class striker fe).

Honestly think it just comes down to a different viewpoint. I reckon if you ask Pep he wouldn't class Fernandinho as a DM but he'd describe his defensive work as crucial to the City setup. I don't know what you wana call that but end of the day he has been doing the dirty work for the likes of KDB and Silva.

[theHotHead]

Box to box implies a player who actually contributes to the attacking play by getting into the opposition third and box. Ramsey is what a B2B player should look like (if he could be arsed to get back more often).

Kante is DM who, due to playing in a largely dominating team, may find himself making interceptions high up the pitch but he contributes practically zero to the attacking play. Fernandinho is a bit better cos he can actually pass but it's been the same role for him this season, break up the play and give it to Silva or KDB...contributing practically nothing to the attack again. He's scored 3 and assisted 5 in a free flowing all out attack team.
FYI Transfermakrt has him listed as 42 games at DM and 1 at CB. Not gospel but it's what it says.

Busquets again can pass but his role is to protect the defence, he's just the best DM out there because he can actually start and get involved in at attack. Again though it's limited and his random foray to the wing for a cross on Saturday doesn't make him a winger or anything. DLP is Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi imo.

Nah, I don't agree. Vieira was a box to box midfielder and he didn't score many goals. I think box to box means he does most of his work from box to box, doesn't necessarily mean he defends in his box and doesn't necessarily mean he creates or scores. He has the energy to get up and down the pitch all game - which is EXACTLY what Kante does. Kante did exactly the same for Leicester and they didn't exactly boss games, they played counter attack. Kante is all over the pitch usually, which is why everybody continually comments about his energy levels and how it is crazy. He does the job of 2 players.