How do we solve central midfield?

Discuss anything Arsenal-related. Tune in to get the latest news, and discuss results, performances, tactics, etc.

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby theHotHead » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:53 am

Not sure why there is any confusion over the terms, CM (which is traditionally a box to box midfielder), DM, ACM, DLP.

CM - a central midfielder that covers from box to box.
DM - a defensive or holding midfielder that provides a screen for the defense.
ACM - an attacking or offensive midfielder that provides support for the forwards/strikers.
DLP - a playmaker that operates deeper in the team, often just in front of the defense.

Obviously a traditional playmaker plays further forward and often operates in the number 10 role.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20281
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby theHotHead » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:56 am

I used to play CM with other CMs, we tended to be decent all rounders, literally one would sit when the other went forward, you would talk constantly throughout the game, who is sitting, who is going forward at moments in the game.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20281
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Arsene Nose » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:58 pm

Yo morons...CM is a position, the others are roles. Box to box CM, defensive CM, attacking CM.

Central - horizontal axis
Midfielder - vertical axis

Capiche?
Believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything.
Arsene Nose
Tony Adams
Tony Adams
 
Posts: 5540
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:55 pm

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Santi » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:40 pm

At work so can't really be bothered right now but disagree again on Vieira, man was heavily involved in our attacking play, completely different to Kante.

Tbh it's fairly pointless comparing players because they may have some similarities but they've all got their own style which is what makes them great. If we could get someone like Vieira again then I wouldn't give a f**k what we call him tbh.
Image
User avatar
Santi
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40602
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby coach8smallball » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:53 pm

theHotHead wrote:I used to play CM with other CMs, we tended to be decent all rounders, literally one would sit when the other went forward, you would talk constantly throughout the game, who is sitting, who is going forward at moments in the game.


you'd think some premier leaguer's would be able to do so much, but nope. I don't get it.
cheers!
--tank
coach8smallball
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:20 am
Location: hampton, va.

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby coach8smallball » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:54 pm

Mesüt wrote:At work so can't really be bothered right now but disagree again on Vieira, man was heavily involved in our attacking play, completely different to Kante.

Tbh it's fairly pointless comparing players because they may have some similarities but they've all got their own style which is what makes them great. If we could get someone like Vieira again then I wouldn't give a f**k what we call him tbh.


Vieira was a freak of nature, but do agree......who cares what we'd call him if we landed a player of that caliber. we know the midfield would be his and everybody would listen.....

....or they'd get 9 inches of limp dick upside their head, just ask anelka
cheers!
--tank
coach8smallball
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:20 am
Location: hampton, va.

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby GBLShorty » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:11 pm

Mesüt wrote:At work so can't really be bothered right now but disagree again on Vieira, man was heavily involved in our attacking play, completely different to Kante.

Tbh it's fairly pointless comparing players because they may have some similarities but they've all got their own style which is what makes them great. If we could get someone like Vieira again then I wouldn't give a f**k what we call him tbh.


Agreed Vieira was a box to box type who leaned more on power than getting into shooting positions like Gerrard and Kante is a Carrielo/Shuttler more like Makelele who does all of his work inside his own half, Vieira would operate from picking the ball up from whatever ball winning defensive midfielder he was paired with, Petit or Gilberto and power forward but also a great tackler himself.

On topic i think we need a player like Nainggolan or Milinkovic-Savic for that b2b or Roaming Playmaker role, someone with some pace and strong to be paired alongside a Kante style defensive minded player like Ndidi, Kondogbia or Kessie etc, i saw Ndombele mentioned somewhere else here who would also be a good fit.

Jean Michael-Seri is a option but is weak and does not differ much from Ramsey.

If we signed N'Zonzi or William Carvalho we would be in the same position as we are with Xhaka, DLPs don't fit the English game anymore because they are so stationary, i'm not convinced either would be a upgrade.

A DLP however would work if we played 3 in midfield with a DLP behind, in front of the defence, in the centre it does not fit imo.

like this...

--------------------Poacher----------------
Inside Forward---------Advanced Playmaker
---------BWM------------B2B-------------------
--------------------DLP------------------------------
WB--------CD----------CD----------------WB
---------------------GK-----------------------------


DLPs worked alongside Vieira because he was just a machine, good at everything.

We also played with Petit/Gilberto further back, Vieira in the middle and Bergkamp deeper, not isometrical.
User avatar
GBLShorty
Nigel Winterburn
Nigel Winterburn
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:25 pm

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby GBLShorty » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:44 pm

I think also we have a issue that Ramsey is often our best player, but a quicker stronger player would make the team better, so to buy a player like Nainggolan etc it would take Ramseys role because they would need to be paired with a ball winner to cover those runs.
User avatar
GBLShorty
Nigel Winterburn
Nigel Winterburn
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:25 pm

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:08 pm

Elneny has what it takes to move into CM. Nzonzi at Sevilla has done well at DM and has PL experience. Bring him home.
Highbury Hillbilly
George Graham
George Graham
 
Posts: 12892
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:43 am

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby GBLShorty » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:14 pm

^Elneny and N'Zonzi would be a huge downgrade on Xhaka, Ramsey, they are basically the same kind of player.

Xhaka<>N'Zonzi is a sideways move, we need some energy and a good tackler.
User avatar
GBLShorty
Nigel Winterburn
Nigel Winterburn
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:25 pm

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Goonerz » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:40 am

Defensive Midfielders (Dm) of today are different. They are more of box to box midfielders in this era. You can’t tell me that Fernandinho, Kante, Matic, etc are comparable to the classic DMs like Makelele, Gilberto Silva etc.. I think with time the current DM does not just sit back and screen the defense for 90% of the time. They have morphed into all over the place Vieira and Roy Keane type. Kante is known as a work horse, not a sitting DM, that is why from his Leicester days to today he is known as the Duracell bunny. The guy is all over the pitch. Give me 2 games where you have ever seen Kante seated deep for 80% of the game. I have never seen him seated back like say Busquets or Makelele, Gilberto and may be Wanyama etc. He is in and around the oppoistion penalty box, right wing, left wing on top of tracking back, tackling, intercepting and screening his back 4 etc. Fernandinho does the same, Matic does the same.
New Day, New Era, New Start. Come On You The Arsenal.
User avatar
Goonerz
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:33 pm

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Goonerz » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:09 am

And i keep saying it. Our midfield has been a complete disaster since the Fabregas era ended. During that time we could absolutely dominate play even if we had poor defenders, DMs and goalkeepers. But back then i was always confident that we had a chance to win a game due the thw football we played, created clear chance after chance in each game. But then wenger always refused to replace Alez Song with a proper DM, kept us hostage with poor keepers like Almunia, Fabianski, Manone, Szny etc. We had the likes of Djourou in defense. And we had a very very thin squad with Rvp, Diaby, Rosicky, Vermaelen, Gibbs, Ramsey, Wilshere etc all always put injured. But whenever they were fit we could play some scintillating, dominant and joyful football. Only if stubborn wenger could have strengthened the squad to deal with our injuries. Today we have incompetent players that can’t hold onto the ball for 2 second under pressure, they are not intelligent, can’t play quick thinking, passing or one touch football etc. They seem to go into meltdown the moment an opponent looks at them. We need players that are confortable on the ball to start with..
New Day, New Era, New Start. Come On You The Arsenal.
User avatar
Goonerz
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:33 pm

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby theHotHead » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:56 am

Arsene Nose wrote:Yo morons...CM is a position, the others are roles. Box to box CM, defensive CM, attacking CM.

Central - horizontal axis
Midfielder - vertical axis

Capiche?

Good point.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20281
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby GBLShorty » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:45 pm

Goonerz wrote:Defensive Midfielders (Dm) of today are different. They are more of box to box midfielders in this era. You can’t tell me that Fernandinho, Kante, Matic, etc are comparable to the classic DMs like Makelele, Gilberto Silva etc.. I think with time the current DM does not just sit back and screen the defense for 90% of the time. They have morphed into all over the place Vieira and Roy Keane type. Kante is known as a work horse, not a sitting DM, that is why from his Leicester days to today he is known as the Duracell bunny. The guy is all over the pitch. Give me 2 games where you have ever seen Kante seated deep for 80% of the game. I have never seen him seated back like say Busquets or Makelele, Gilberto and may be Wanyama etc. He is in and around the oppoistion penalty box, right wing, left wing on top of tracking back, tackling, intercepting and screening his back 4 etc. Fernandinho does the same, Matic does the same.


No, nothing like Vieira or Keane or B2B, they simply have a higher work rate and more responsibility than just 'winning the ball and punting it forward' look at Kantes heatmap, he rarely exits the half way line so hje is certainly not a B2B midfielder he rarely ever enters the opposition half.

The term is Shuttler or Carrielo, a tenacious defensive midfielder with a high work rate.
User avatar
GBLShorty
Nigel Winterburn
Nigel Winterburn
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:25 pm

Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Arsenal Tone » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:31 am

Old thread but in the 20/21 season we had Partey, Xhaka, Cabellos and Elneny with Guendouzi and Torreira out on loan.

With Ceballos and Xhaka both leaving we need at least two new CMs who can play regularly. Who do we go for? There are plenty of midfielders likely to move this summer.
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
User avatar
Arsenal Tone
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40751
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:03 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Arsenal Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Nuggets, Salibatelli and 38 guests