Kai Havertz (29)

[theHotHead]

Overall I think the people who still hate him just want this guy to be something he's not and dont appreciate what he actually is.

I notice a few make excuses for why Martinelli hasan't gone to the next level as he should have by now.

People want him to be a stone cold deadly finisher, he's never going to be that. Hes the smartest player on the pitch truth be told, his style is the samr as Thomas Müller whis even less of a striker than Havertz is but they both score from making clever runs.

His goal was brilliant world class teamwork in pre assisting his own goal, timing that late run to perfection from a brilliant cross and play from Trossard their defence couldn't handle.

He's never ever going to be like Haaland, Haaland dosen't have half the abillity Havertz has or even a 10th of the technique. He's a brute viking who just scores goals! Truth is he dosen't need to be a all out goalscorer, However I still expect minimum 25 goals in all competitions and 15 at the very least in the league. Whats more important is again guys like Martinelli stepping up.

f***ing post of the week this

[theHotHead]

I appreciate he's a limited footballer with few outstanding traits, who can score the odd goal. And at Arsenal he has somewhat found a more supportive environment where he can fit in better. That's it. Fair enough, he has proven he can be an asset. BUt not all players of value are alike. Saka, Trossard and Odegaard are arguably our best players. But then even Jesus has some value. so what?
It's that we spent £60m for a player who can do a job and "fit in", and it was from Chelsea from whom we got Willian and Luiz.

Limited how?? What is he not able to do that you expect he should be doing?

[alexis2015finalgoal]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... w5102yzg7o

I agree with Bent and Lauren. Yes, he has improved. but still isn['t elite.
Arteta's rehab project seems to have worked.
Making dead and down and out players feel loved and welcome.

[swipe right]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cpw5102yzg7o

I agree with Bent and Lauren. Yes, he has improved. but still isn['t elite.
Arteta's rehab project seems to have worked.
Making dead and down and out players feel loved and welcome.

At 65 mil and 300k a week

[elkanofan]

I appreciate he's a limited footballer with few outstanding traits, who can score the odd goal. And at Arsenal he has somewhat found a more supportive environment where he can fit in better. That's it. Fair enough, he has proven he can be an asset. BUt not all players of value are alike. Saka, Trossard and Odegaard are arguably our best players. But then even Jesus has some value. so what?
It's that we spent £60m for a player who can do a job and "fit in", and it was from Chelsea from whom we got Willian and Luiz.

Limited how?? What is he not able to do that you expect he should be doing?

He's the exact thesis for my post mate.

He is expecting him to score like Haaland is.

He still has Chelsea fans living rent free in his head for some bizarre reason yet Chelsea fans are still salty over the 5-0 last year and also this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeASEC03Gpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVYQVZylZiw

[theHotHead]

Simply, if Goetze were any good, he would have featured regularly in an pretty average German team since 2015, but he just disappeared. Poor form and injuries dented his career.
Havertz have been a regular for 3-4 yrs, for Germany. He does have qualities.Credit where it is due. Some trolls on this site bad mouths almost every Arsenal player at the slightest opportunity. Quite ridiculous how this is allowed to continue.

Those are not serious people.

For Havertz he has now put in almost a year of world class form.
Arteta seems to have unlocked his potential from when he was regarded as a generational talent in Germany and one of, if not the biggest, young talents in the world of football.
He needs to continue it. In fact, he needs to build even further on it.
I think he can get 25-30 goal contributions this season.
Had 21 last year.

Leave the world class crap out and you may get people to agree.
He ain't world class.
But he ain't total crap.
He is a confidence player and he is decent atm I wouldn't class him better than Wright or Smith and they were not world class but they were top notch performers

Thats controversial VCC. Ian Wright wasn't world class ?!!

Think back to prime Wrighty, he was unplayable, could literally do everything, score with his left, score with his right, score with his head, drop deep and hold it up, go long, score from range, get the tap-ins, score the lobs. I think Wrighty in his prime could play for any team in the world, for me he WAS world class.

[VCC]

Simply, if Goetze were any good, he would have featured regularly in an pretty average German team since 2015, but he just disappeared. Poor form and injuries dented his career.
Havertz have been a regular for 3-4 yrs, for Germany. He does have qualities.Credit where it is due. Some trolls on this site bad mouths almost every Arsenal player at the slightest opportunity. Quite ridiculous how this is allowed to continue.

Those are not serious people.

For Havertz he has now put in almost a year of world class form.
Arteta seems to have unlocked his potential from when he was regarded as a generational talent in Germany and one of, if not the biggest, young talents in the world of football.
He needs to continue it. In fact, he needs to build even further on it.
I think he can get 25-30 goal contributions this season.
Had 21 last year.

Leave the world class crap out and you may get people to agree.
He ain't world class.
But he ain't total crap.
He is a confidence player and he is decent atm I wouldn't class him better than Wright or Smith and they were not world class but they were top notch performers

Thats controversial VCC. Ian Wright wasn't world class ?!!

Think back to prime Wrighty, he was unplayable, could literally do everything, score with his left, score with his right, score with his head, drop deep and hold it up, go long, score from range, get the tap-ins, score the lobs. I think Wrighty in his prime could play for any team in the world, for me he WAS world class.

Could hardly make the English side

[theHotHead]

Thats controversial VCC. Ian Wright wasn't world class ?!!

Think back to prime Wrighty, he was unplayable, could literally do everything, score with his left, score with his right, score with his head, drop deep and hold it up, go long, score from range, get the tap-ins, score the lobs. I think Wrighty in his prime could play for any team in the world, for me he WAS world class.

Could hardly make the English side

You are right, but if you listen to what Wrighty himself said about his lack of England caps its because the managers didn't like him and that broke his heart because he was desperate to play for England.

His England caps spanned 1991 to 1998, Graham Taylor gave Wrighty his debut, he had Terry Venables from 1993 to 1996 then Glenn Hoddle.

His first cap saw Wrighty play alongside Lineker, in 1991/92 Wrighty was the league's top scorer, in the 12 international matches played that season Wrighty got 22 mins of game time, he scored 29 league goals ffs ! He didn't have a good 1992/93 season, only scored 15 goals and was way down the list. but bizarrely he got NT game time. In 1993/94 Wrighty was 7th with 23 goals and again, weirdly thats when he got game time, Andy Cole topped the scoring lists on a whopping 34 goals - 9 goals clear of 2nd place, he made the squad only once and got no game time whatsoever !

1994/95 Wrighty was 11th with 23 goals (Yes - 23 league goals only got him an 11th place finish !!) He got 2 caps and wasn't called up to any squad. 1995/96 he was nowhere in the scoring charts and got no caps, in 1996/97 he was second in the charts and fair play he got some caps.

I think what we have here though is a bit of favouritism especially in the periods when Wrighty was on fire.

[VCC]

Thats controversial VCC. Ian Wright wasn't world class ?!!

Think back to prime Wrighty, he was unplayable, could literally do everything, score with his left, score with his right, score with his head, drop deep and hold it up, go long, score from range, get the tap-ins, score the lobs. I think Wrighty in his prime could play for any team in the world, for me he WAS world class.

Could hardly make the English side

You are right, but if you listen to what Wrighty himself said about his lack of England caps its because the managers didn't like him and that broke his heart because he was desperate to play for England.

His England caps spanned 1991 to 1998, Graham Taylor gave Wrighty his debut, he had Terry Venables from 1993 to 1996 then Glenn Hoddle.

His first cap saw Wrighty play alongside Lineker, in 1991/92 Wrighty was the league's top scorer, in the 12 international matches played that season Wrighty got 22 mins of game time, he scored 29 league goals ffs ! He didn't have a good 1992/93 season, only scored 15 goals and was way down the list. but bizarrely he got NT game time. In 1993/94 Wrighty was 7th with 23 goals and again, weirdly thats when he got game time, Andy Cole topped the scoring lists on a whopping 34 goals - 9 goals clear of 2nd place, he made the squad only once and got no game time whatsoever !

1994/95 Wrighty was 11th with 23 goals (Yes - 23 league goals only got him an 11th place finish !!) He got 2 caps and wasn't called up to any squad. 1995/96 he was nowhere in the scoring charts and got no caps, in 1996/97 he was second in the charts and fair play he got some caps.

I think what we have here though is a bit of favouritism especially in the periods when Wrighty was on fire.

Don't get me wrong Wright is one of my all time favorites for Arsenal I loved him, but the Term world class gets fired around so much I am starting to think it's like AW 4th place trophy it's purely for attendance.
World class to me it's set aside to the elite who would walk into any side in their time.
One of my other favorites was Mariner who was alot like Smith in style he was definitely not world class but a top CF he played a couple more times for England than Wright in saying that I agree Wright was the better forward his goal tally tells you that,
Just have a bee in my bonet probably old age

[jayramfootball]

Thats controversial VCC. Ian Wright wasn't world class ?!!

Think back to prime Wrighty, he was unplayable, could literally do everything, score with his left, score with his right, score with his head, drop deep and hold it up, go long, score from range, get the tap-ins, score the lobs. I think Wrighty in his prime could play for any team in the world, for me he WAS world class.

Could hardly make the English side

You are right, but if you listen to what Wrighty himself said about his lack of England caps its because the managers didn't like him and that broke his heart because he was desperate to play for England.

His England caps spanned 1991 to 1998, Graham Taylor gave Wrighty his debut, he had Terry Venables from 1993 to 1996 then Glenn Hoddle.

His first cap saw Wrighty play alongside Lineker, in 1991/92 Wrighty was the league's top scorer, in the 12 international matches played that season Wrighty got 22 mins of game time, he scored 29 league goals ffs ! He didn't have a good 1992/93 season, only scored 15 goals and was way down the list. but bizarrely he got NT game time. In 1993/94 Wrighty was 7th with 23 goals and again, weirdly thats when he got game time, Andy Cole topped the scoring lists on a whopping 34 goals - 9 goals clear of 2nd place, he made the squad only once and got no game time whatsoever !

1994/95 Wrighty was 11th with 23 goals (Yes - 23 league goals only got him an 11th place finish !!) He got 2 caps and wasn't called up to any squad. 1995/96 he was nowhere in the scoring charts and got no caps, in 1996/97 he was second in the charts and fair play he got some caps.

I think what we have here though is a bit of favouritism especially in the periods when Wrighty was on fire.

Don't get me wrong Wright is one of my all time favorites for Arsenal I loved him, but the Term world class gets fired around so much I am starting to think it's like AW 4th place trophy it's purely for attendance.
World class to me it's set aside to the elite who would walk into any side in their time.
One of my other favorites was Mariner who was alot like Smith in style he was definitely not world class but a top CF he played a couple more times for England than Wright in saying that I agree Wright was the better forward his goal tally tells you that,
Just have a bee in my bonet probably old age

Your definition of world class is not what everyone else has to adopt.

[Salibatelli]

He’s actually a glorified Giroud, a player who seems to score some goals, sometimes does something very good but ultimately isn’t that talented.

The Arsenal fan base have a tendency to overhype some of their players (maybe other fanbases do the same).

Look at Ramsdale, flavour of the day, world class, best keeper etc etc, fast forward a year and he’s forgotten about and actually hasn’t been that good for Southampton.

Jesus came before (same thing with him) and Havertz is just the next one in the conveyor belt.

Gotta love the way Haaland gets brought into this and he’s kinda slated in an underhand way, he’s not our player but he’s absolutely elite, he’s a striker and is there to score goals and boy does he score goals, but apparently he’s very limited and Havertz is more talented.

Thing is Haaland is hugely talented at doing what strikers should do, scoring goals, that is a talent and a massive one as few players can do it, certainly to anywhere near his level.

I know which one I prefer.

[Salibatelli]

As for Wright, one of my favourite players of all time and an amazing goalscorer who could score goals from everywhere in a time goalscorers were plentiful, Hirst, Ferdinand, Wright, Shearer, Sutton, Sheringham etc etc.

What I will say is while Wright was amazing, ultimately Shearer was better and scored more goals.

[theHotHead]

Thats controversial VCC. Ian Wright wasn't world class ?!!

Think back to prime Wrighty, he was unplayable, could literally do everything, score with his left, score with his right, score with his head, drop deep and hold it up, go long, score from range, get the tap-ins, score the lobs. I think Wrighty in his prime could play for any team in the world, for me he WAS world class.

Could hardly make the English side

You are right, but if you listen to what Wrighty himself said about his lack of England caps its because the managers didn't like him and that broke his heart because he was desperate to play for England.

His England caps spanned 1991 to 1998, Graham Taylor gave Wrighty his debut, he had Terry Venables from 1993 to 1996 then Glenn Hoddle.

His first cap saw Wrighty play alongside Lineker, in 1991/92 Wrighty was the league's top scorer, in the 12 international matches played that season Wrighty got 22 mins of game time, he scored 29 league goals ffs ! He didn't have a good 1992/93 season, only scored 15 goals and was way down the list. but bizarrely he got NT game time. In 1993/94 Wrighty was 7th with 23 goals and again, weirdly thats when he got game time, Andy Cole topped the scoring lists on a whopping 34 goals - 9 goals clear of 2nd place, he made the squad only once and got no game time whatsoever !

1994/95 Wrighty was 11th with 23 goals (Yes - 23 league goals only got him an 11th place finish !!) He got 2 caps and wasn't called up to any squad. 1995/96 he was nowhere in the scoring charts and got no caps, in 1996/97 he was second in the charts and fair play he got some caps.

I think what we have here though is a bit of favouritism especially in the periods when Wrighty was on fire.

Don't get me wrong Wright is one of my all time favorites for Arsenal I loved him, but the Term world class gets fired around so much I am starting to think it's like AW 4th place trophy it's purely for attendance.
World class to me it's set aside to the elite who would walk into any side in their time.
One of my other favorites was Mariner who was alot like Smith in style he was definitely not world class but a top CF he played a couple more times for England than Wright in saying that I agree Wright was the better forward his goal tally tells you that,
Just have a bee in my bonet probably old age

Agreed, I loved Charlie Nicholas too, a top striker, but wasn't world class. Just think Wrighty could do more and was always a threat, able to conjure goals from nothing.

[jayramfootball]

I think we can all agree that Havertz has decimated the narrative the haters had when he first signed.
That's a good thing and we can all be happy with his contribution.
Where each fan might rate him on the scale of good to great is all pretty irrelevant - he's doing the business
What he needs to do is continue his 2024 form.

[theHotHead]

Thats controversial VCC. Ian Wright wasn't world class ?!!

Think back to prime Wrighty, he was unplayable, could literally do everything, score with his left, score with his right, score with his head, drop deep and hold it up, go long, score from range, get the tap-ins, score the lobs. I think Wrighty in his prime could play for any team in the world, for me he WAS world class.

Could hardly make the English side

You are right, but if you listen to what Wrighty himself said about his lack of England caps its because the managers didn't like him and that broke his heart because he was desperate to play for England.

His England caps spanned 1991 to 1998, Graham Taylor gave Wrighty his debut, he had Terry Venables from 1993 to 1996 then Glenn Hoddle.

His first cap saw Wrighty play alongside Lineker, in 1991/92 Wrighty was the league's top scorer, in the 12 international matches played that season Wrighty got 22 mins of game time, he scored 29 league goals ffs ! He didn't have a good 1992/93 season, only scored 15 goals and was way down the list. but bizarrely he got NT game time. In 1993/94 Wrighty was 7th with 23 goals and again, weirdly thats when he got game time, Andy Cole topped the scoring lists on a whopping 34 goals - 9 goals clear of 2nd place, he made the squad only once and got no game time whatsoever !

1994/95 Wrighty was 11th with 23 goals (Yes - 23 league goals only got him an 11th place finish !!) He got 2 caps and wasn't called up to any squad. 1995/96 he was nowhere in the scoring charts and got no caps, in 1996/97 he was second in the charts and fair play he got some caps.

I think what we have here though is a bit of favouritism especially in the periods when Wrighty was on fire.

Don't get me wrong Wright is one of my all time favorites for Arsenal I loved him, but the Term world class gets fired around so much I am starting to think it's like AW 4th place trophy it's purely for attendance.
World class to me it's set aside to the elite who would walk into any side in their time.
One of my other favorites was Mariner who was alot like Smith in style he was definitely not world class but a top CF he played a couple more times for England than Wright in saying that I agree Wright was the better forward his goal tally tells you that,
Just have a bee in my bonet probably old age

Your definition of world class is not what everyone else has to adopt.

To be fair I think his definition of world class is exactly correct - someone that could walk into any side. Whats your definition of world class?