Kai Havertz (29)

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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby theHotHead » Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:19 pm

Rockape wrote:This thread is getting very boring.....we've all been saying pretty much the same thing since page 5. Thats 257 pages ago! :rofll:

Looooooool
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby 22-0 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:22 pm

As long as hes playing then we're playing on the forums :)
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Nuggets » Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:50 pm

22-0 wrote:As long as hes playing then we're playing on the forums :)

:rofll:
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:21 am

Salibatelli wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I think DG got it right, he is a false 9


That’s basically where he played at Chelsea isn’t it and where he was poor and people defended him by saying he wasn’t one.

Doesn’t score enough goals to be a number 9 IMO and even if we ignored that (personally I think goals is fundamental to a number 9 particular in a team with no other specialist finisher), he doesn’t really contribute enough, that’s been for his entire career in England.

Effectively we now have 3 number 9s that don’t really score a lot.


As for the goals comment, Firmino played Central for Liverpool but he wasn't the main goal threat either, it was Mane and Salah.
Firmino mainly facilitated the WF's or contributed to the general forward play.

Havertz at Chelsea played as part of a front 3, Werner was the CF, Kai played as LCAM and someone else, can't remember who played as RCAM......eventually when Werner was dropped Kai went central.

The point is he's here to stay, we need him to produce for us.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby UFGN » Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:20 am

theHotHead wrote:I think DG got it right, he is a false 9


He's a false footballer.
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Nuggets » Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:07 am

UFGN wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I think DG got it right, he is a false 9


He's a false footballer.

Boom Boom :rofll: :clap:
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Salibatelli » Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:14 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
As for the goals comment, Firmino played Central for Liverpool but he wasn't the main goal threat either, it was Mane and Salah.
Firmino mainly facilitated the WF's or contributed to the general forward play.

Havertz at Chelsea played as part of a front 3, Werner was the CF, Kai played as LCAM and someone else, can't remember who played as RCAM......eventually when Werner was dropped Kai went central.

The point is he's here to stay, we need him to produce for us.


You highlighted the main point there, Mane and in particular Salah scored loads of goals, we don’t have that which means we can carry a guy like him.

Firminho is way better than Havertz has ever been or will ever be, as far as his time at Chelsea is concerned though he was a massive failure there so where he played is kinda irrelevant because he didn’t perform well enough.

Maybe he is (personally would try and cut our losses somehow) but I think we’ll be waiting a long time if we want this guy to offer something special or be like Firminho, you can persist with substandard players for years, doesn’t change the fact they are substandard though, have no belief this guy can deliver, 3 1/2 years in the PL is evidence of that IMO.

Wasn’t liked at Chelsea and isn’t really liked here and there’s a good reason, players that perform and deliver don’t have so many fans critical of them.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:17 pm

Salibatelli wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
As for the goals comment, Firmino played Central for Liverpool but he wasn't the main goal threat either, it was Mane and Salah.
Firmino mainly facilitated the WF's or contributed to the general forward play.

Havertz at Chelsea played as part of a front 3, Werner was the CF, Kai played as LCAM and someone else, can't remember who played as RCAM......eventually when Werner was dropped Kai went central.

The point is he's here to stay, we need him to produce for us.


You highlighted the main point there, Mane and in particular Salah scored loads of goals, we don’t have that which means we can carry a guy like him.

Firminho is way better than Havertz has ever been or will ever be, as far as his time at Chelsea is concerned though he was a massive failure there so where he played is kinda irrelevant because he didn’t perform well enough.

Maybe he is (personally would try and cut our losses somehow) but I think we’ll be waiting a long time if we want this guy to offer something special or be like Firminho, you can persist with substandard players for years, doesn’t change the fact they are substandard though, have no belief this guy can deliver, 3 1/2 years in the PL is evidence of that IMO.

Wasn’t liked at Chelsea and isn’t really liked here and there’s a good reason, players that perform and deliver don’t have so many fans critical of them.


I'm not doubting that, or that he has fully landed either here or Chelsea.
It's more of the fact that Arteta has invested in him and so we have to get the best out if him because he's not going to be sold, especially on his wages.

So our option is CF / False 9 or keep playing him at LCM.

I know what my preference is, he can battle it out with GJ up front and at least he offers something different with height and a target......or we can opt to have him keeping Jorginho or ESR out of LCM.

We need a CF, he also looks more comfortable up front.

I'm not trying to sell him to you, I'm saying Arteta has put us in a situation and we need to make the best of it, I think he can help the team more in attack.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Angelito » Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:06 pm

theHotHead wrote:I think DG got it right, he is a false 9


False 9 isn't a designation, it's a role. You can have Zinchenko as a false 9, and he'd be just that. What wouldn't change is that he'd still be a defender deployed as a false 9.

I don't have any strong opinion on Havertz. He's okay. But for a lot of people, he seems to be the armageddon call on Arteta. Tbh, Arteta's worth doesn't depend on Havertz. Managers can make mistakes. It's not a big deal. They just have to learn from it.

There's no point going in there when performances can speak for themselves. For a lot of older fans, it seems to be a case of, "Thank f**k, it ain't Wenger." And for, younger fans, they believe that Arteta is the Pep Guardiola of the Premier League...

At the end of the day, if you win a trophy or challenge until the end, there's some consolation there. If you fail to, then that's where narrative building comes to the fore.

Nobody has to defend Arteta, Havertz, or Arsenal. It is what it is. If you feel like we're good, then we're good. If you feel that we need to win trophies, yeah, it makes sense.

But if you feel the need to go out of your way to defend what's happening, maybe, there's a problem. That's all.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:58 pm

The Arteta/Havertz situation is not like any other though.

Firstly this is an Arsenal team who have not been genuine title contenders for years. Secondly, we came close last season and we needed to do the right thing in the summer and we ended up buying Havertz for an absurd amount of money , then we find put Arteta doesn't know where to play him.

Then on top of that Arteta changed the system from a system that was devastating for us last season. All of these things make the finger pointing and accusations very valid.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby ag6789 » Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:11 pm

I think because we couldn't break through tough teams like City, low block, high pressing Everton last season , Havertz, has been brought in to provide the X factor. His size, ball control and the possibility of able to deploy him upfront, in the wings and even little behind , makes him a difficult candidate to keep track of or handle.
He has missed some sitters and that has angered the fans, but, he has caused tough teams like City and Pool good bit of trouble too this season. Think there's more to come from him.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Salibatelli » Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:26 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:I'm not doubting that, or that he has fully landed either here or Chelsea.
It's more of the fact that Arteta has invested in him and so we have to get the best out if him because he's not going to be sold, especially on his wages.

So our option is CF / False 9 or keep playing him at LCM.

I know what my preference is, he can battle it out with GJ up front and at least he offers something different with height and a target......or we can opt to have him keeping Jorginho or ESR out of LCM.

We need a CF, he also looks more comfortable up front.

I'm not trying to sell him to you, I'm saying Arteta has put us in a situation and we need to make the best of it, I think he can help the team more in attack.


I get you, you’re correct, I think it’s a shame we’ve lumbered ourselves with another player who isn’t good enough and that’s because we paid so much and gave him such high wages we’re probably stuck with him.

The level of investment and fact we have those options up front will probably also mean we won’t get a striker in the summer, Arteta doesn’t really want one and the talk is that Man U are first in line for Toney as they need a striker and have a manager that wants one and Chelsea want Osimhen as they need on too and I think he’s more likely to end up at Chelsea as he’s the kind of signing that they would make.

That’s the problem with bringing in big expensive flops, you don’t have a lot of options once you have.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:48 pm

ag6789 wrote:I think because we couldn't break through tough teams like City, low block, high pressing Everton last season , Havertz, has been brought in to provide the X factor. His size, ball control and the possibility of able to deploy him upfront, in the wings and even little behind , makes him a difficult candidate to keep track of or handle.
He has missed some sitters and that has angered the fans, but, he has caused tough teams like City and Pool good bit of trouble too this season. Think there's more to come from him.


Yup.
He’s having a decent debut season for us and seems to have an impact in the big games.
Lots more to come from him i think as he builds on his decent start to his Arsenal career.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby theHotHead » Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:57 am

ag6789 wrote:I think because we couldn't break through tough teams like City, low block, high pressing Everton last season , Havertz, has been brought in to provide the X factor. His size, ball control and the possibility of able to deploy him upfront, in the wings and even little behind , makes him a difficult candidate to keep track of or handle.
He has missed some sitters and that has angered the fans, but, he has caused tough teams like City and Pool good bit of trouble too this season. Think there's more to come from him.

Thats cool and I get that as an argument but in reality we never saw him be a nuisance or difficult to handle at all during his time at Chelsea and to be honest we have only seen it once from so far this season and that was the last game we played.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:03 pm

So good.
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