Dani Ceballos

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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby Angelito » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:36 pm

theHotHead wrote:As much as I hate to admit it things have gotten worse since Wenger !! But its the transition we all should have expected to happen but secretly feared, no band aid is gonna fix this we need to cauterise the cancer Wenger left and rebuild.


I beg to disagree.

Wenger didn't leave us in any mess, as unpopular as it may sound here. If his final, horrible season amounts to a League Cup Final, a UEL SF that we lost because of a Kosc blunder and no Auba or Alexis in it, or the second best home record in the Prem behind champions City, it wasn't that bad.

What was bad was Arsenal directors begging Wenger to stay for one more season after 16/17 because nobody was competent enough to include a proper football admin team within Arsenal until 17/18.

Wenger should have been moved upstairs after 15/16, or should have been let go after that FA Cup win in '17.

Our recruitment has been worse off since Wenger let go of his iron fist on transfers. Allegedly, the likes of Xhaka and Mustafi were Gazidis-sanctioned transfers. Ozil's £350k was on Gazidis. The only positive thing he did was sign Lacazette. Auba, Torreira, 'Douzi, and the likes were on Mislintat more than on Gazidis.

The problem at Arsenal is at directorial level. Gazidis and Sanllehi hired Unai when Conte was available. We've splashed over £200m since Wenger.

Dare I say, Wenger has gone from being revered to being criminally underrated. He spent his prime years here, '03 until '11 under financial austerity. When we did spend a bit, like the Ozil transfer, we were still operating on a net spend of £30m that season.

It wasn't until 2014 where we actually splashed the cash—spending nearly £100m in the summer of 2014. By then, Wenger should have been DoF at Arsenal. We still won the FA Cup that season.

15/16 was really it. If we had capable people at board level, Wenger wouldn't have survived that season. We didn't. And we still don't. I don't rate Sanllehi.

Basically, we have 4 people doing the job Wenger did by himself for nearly a decade at Arsenal. And, we aren't better off. We're worse.

Not only are we less impressive, we don't play the attractive brand of football that we did under Wenger either. We can't blame Wenger for the board's incompetence.

I do hope and pray Arteta can change this come next season. But then again.. We don't have an ambitious or strategic board.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby gooney » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:30 pm

I always knew once Wenger left we would be a mid table team and I wanted that. I was saying for years it will take Arsenal decades before they become top team. I also said anyone who truly loves football would be be happy to see Arsenal fail as in many ways we represent some of the worst things in modern football. It’s not coincidence every knew business man who take over a club says Arsenal is the model to follow
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby NovaGB » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:42 pm

gooney wrote:I always knew once Wenger left we would be a mid table team and I wanted that. I was saying for years it will take Arsenal decades before they become top team. I also said anyone who truly loves football would be be happy to see Arsenal fail as in many ways we represent some of the worst things in modern football. It’s not coincidence every knew business man who take over a club says Arsenal is the model to follow


f**k me, you should do the lottery mate.

No offence but the decline has been pretty obvious since 03/04.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby Angelito » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:30 pm

NovaGB wrote:
gooney wrote:I always knew once Wenger left we would be a mid table team and I wanted that. I was saying for years it will take Arsenal decades before they become top team. I also said anyone who truly loves football would be be happy to see Arsenal fail as in many ways we represent some of the worst things in modern football. It’s not coincidence every knew business man who take over a club says Arsenal is the model to follow


f**k me, you should do the lottery mate.

No offence but the decline has been pretty obvious since 03/04.


Has it though?

The referees were totally against us in the post-Invincibles season. We reached the UCL Final in 2006.

Since 2006? Yes. We simply couldn't compete with the big spenders. We were well on track until 13/14 in hindsight. Since then, it's gone all downhill.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby NovaGB » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:04 pm

Angelito wrote:
NovaGB wrote:
gooney wrote:I always knew once Wenger left we would be a mid table team and I wanted that. I was saying for years it will take Arsenal decades before they become top team. I also said anyone who truly loves football would be be happy to see Arsenal fail as in many ways we represent some of the worst things in modern football. It’s not coincidence every knew business man who take over a club says Arsenal is the model to follow


f**k me, you should do the lottery mate.

No offence but the decline has been pretty obvious since 03/04.


Has it though?

The referees were totally against us in the post-Invincibles season. We reached the UCL Final in 2006.

Since 2006? Yes. We simply couldn't compete with the big spenders. We were well on track until 13/14 in hindsight. Since then, it's gone all downhill.


I'd say the 2006 team was a decline of the invincibles, we just had a good run, I mean Liverpool won it whilst finishing 6th or something like that.

You say we were fine until 2014, yet that was 10 years without a league title, we dipped in the mid 90's but still only went 7 years without a title until Wenger took over, then he won 3 in 6 years, then a 16 year baron run, so definitely from 2003/04.

Champions League final is a great achievement, but anything can happen in a knockout competition, look at Greece in the Euros in 2004, or like i said Liverpool in 2005, a real reflection of how a team is doing is over a 38 game league season, playing every team home and away.
Last edited by NovaGB on Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby Marsbar100 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:22 pm

The declinbe happend as soo as dein left imo
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:47 pm

gooney wrote:He is not wanted by Real and its between us and Real Betis. What does that tell you?


Doesn't tell me anything. Real are stacked with hetter players in his position: Takefusa Kubo, Odegaard and Vinius Jr can all play in his role, and they're all kids.

Alexis Sanchez was surplus at Barca because Neymar was better. He still ripped the PL a new one when he was with us.

We are not competing for talent with Real. We never have.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby VCC » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:23 pm

Marsbar100 wrote:The declinbe happend as soo as dein left imo

100% Dein was the glue that held everything together, he understood football and how to be successful at it
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby Ach » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:25 pm

Decline started before Dein left.

He was still here when we just about finished fourth thanks to lasagna.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:44 pm

Marsbar100 wrote:The declinbe happend as soo as dein left imo


This is a popular opinion on this forum, and I think it's too related to people's love for Dein due to what he contributed to Arsenal.

I don't think Dein staying on would have changed much. There's only so much you can do if a billionaire owner is hell-bent on winning the league and spends whatever is necessary to make it happen.

Dein left when Arsenal only had Abramovich and the Glazers to contend with. We could still finish a close 2nd in those years.

Once City entered the picture, we started falling to 3rd-4th. And then when Tottenham's golden generation and FSG+Klopp arrived, it was over.

Unless Dein somehow became a billionaire and paid off the stadium in one fell swoop, I can't see how things would have changed for us. There is not much difference between the £ City brings in for winning the league, vs. what we bring in for 5th or 6th place. They're both roughly around £100m

We have spent > £100m per window for several seasons. It doesn't buy much.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby swipe right » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:11 pm

gooney wrote:I always knew once Wenger left we would be a mid table team and I wanted that. I was saying for years it will take Arsenal decades before they become top team. I also said anyone who truly loves football would be be happy to see Arsenal fail as in many ways we represent some of the worst things in modern football. It’s not coincidence every knew business man who take over a club says Arsenal is the model to follow

Worse than say Newcastle? Or Rovers? Or a dozen other clubs I could name? Nope.
Also, how is the club to blame for Kroenke taking over?
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:20 pm

Angelito wrote:
theHotHead wrote:As much as I hate to admit it things have gotten worse since Wenger !! But its the transition we all should have expected to happen but secretly feared, no band aid is gonna fix this we need to cauterise the cancer Wenger left and rebuild.


I beg to disagree.

Wenger didn't leave us in any mess, as unpopular as it may sound here. If his final, horrible season amounts to a League Cup Final, a UEL SF that we lost because of a Kosc blunder and no Auba or Alexis in it, or the second best home record in the Prem behind champions City, it wasn't that bad.

What was bad was Arsenal directors begging Wenger to stay for one more season after 16/17 because nobody was competent enough to include a proper football admin team within Arsenal until 17/18.

Wenger should have been moved upstairs after 15/16, or should have been let go after that FA Cup win in '17.

Our recruitment has been worse off since Wenger let go of his iron fist on transfers. Allegedly, the likes of Xhaka and Mustafi were Gazidis-sanctioned transfers. Ozil's £350k was on Gazidis. The only positive thing he did was sign Lacazette. Auba, Torreira, 'Douzi, and the likes were on Mislintat more than on Gazidis.

The problem at Arsenal is at directorial level. Gazidis and Sanllehi hired Unai when Conte was available. We've splashed over £200m since Wenger.

Dare I say, Wenger has gone from being revered to being criminally underrated. He spent his prime years here, '03 until '11 under financial austerity. When we did spend a bit, like the Ozil transfer, we were still operating on a net spend of £30m that season.

It wasn't until 2014 where we actually splashed the cash—spending nearly £100m in the summer of 2014. By then, Wenger should have been DoF at Arsenal. We still won the FA Cup that season.

15/16 was really it. If we had capable people at board level, Wenger wouldn't have survived that season. We didn't. And we still don't. I don't rate Sanllehi.

Basically, we have 4 people doing the job Wenger did by himself for nearly a decade at Arsenal. And, we aren't better off. We're worse.

Not only are we less impressive, we don't play the attractive brand of football that we did under Wenger either. We can't blame Wenger for the board's incompetence.

I do hope and pray Arteta can change this come next season. But then again.. We don't have an ambitious or strategic board.

Dude, Wenger and Wenger alone is responsible for eroding the squad's quality!! While at the same time our wage bill was increasing at a rate it had no right to - with the calibre of players we were buying. It had nothing to do with the Emirates move, it was Wenger's naivety, stupidity and arrogance that caused us to slip back, nothing else.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:25 pm

Angelito wrote:
NovaGB wrote:
gooney wrote:I always knew once Wenger left we would be a mid table team and I wanted that. I was saying for years it will take Arsenal decades before they become top team. I also said anyone who truly loves football would be be happy to see Arsenal fail as in many ways we represent some of the worst things in modern football. It’s not coincidence every knew business man who take over a club says Arsenal is the model to follow


f**k me, you should do the lottery mate.

No offence but the decline has been pretty obvious since 03/04.


Has it though?

The referees were totally against us in the post-Invincibles season. We reached the UCL Final in 2006.

Since 2006? Yes. We simply couldn't compete with the big spenders. We were well on track until 13/14 in hindsight. Since then, it's gone all downhill.

It went downhill the moment we lost the Champions League final, Wenger moved away from the pace and power that brought us success and went for small technical players to play tiki-taka football - but we had no steel.

Having no steel we came a cropper against the physical sides and we complained non-stop about it. But Chelsea and Man U didnt have any problems dispatching the physical teams. We had to blame referees for not protecting us, total nonsense.

Wenger was to blame from 2007.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:29 pm

aniym wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:The declinbe happend as soo as dein left imo


This is a popular opinion on this forum, and I think it's too related to people's love for Dein due to what he contributed to Arsenal.

I don't think Dein staying on would have changed much. There's only so much you can do if a billionaire owner is hell-bent on winning the league and spends whatever is necessary to make it happen.

Dein left when Arsenal only had Abramovich and the Glazers to contend with. We could still finish a close 2nd in those years.

Once City entered the picture, we started falling to 3rd-4th. And then when Tottenham's golden generation and FSG+Klopp arrived, it was over.

Unless Dein somehow became a billionaire and paid off the stadium in one fell swoop, I can't see how things would have changed for us. There is not much difference between the £ City brings in for winning the league, vs. what we bring in for 5th or 6th place. They're both roughly around £100m

We have spent > £100m per window for several seasons. It doesn't buy much.

Because Dein was backing Usmanov so if Dein had stayed the shareholders may have decided to sell to Usmanov instead of Kroenke - Dein carried a lot of sway.
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Re: Dani Ceballos (8)

Postby Angelito » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:03 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Angelito wrote:
theHotHead wrote:As much as I hate to admit it things have gotten worse since Wenger !! But its the transition we all should have expected to happen but secretly feared, no band aid is gonna fix this we need to cauterise the cancer Wenger left and rebuild.


I beg to disagree.

Wenger didn't leave us in any mess, as unpopular as it may sound here. If his final, horrible season amounts to a League Cup Final, a UEL SF that we lost because of a Kosc blunder and no Auba or Alexis in it, or the second best home record in the Prem behind champions City, it wasn't that bad.

What was bad was Arsenal directors begging Wenger to stay for one more season after 16/17 because nobody was competent enough to include a proper football admin team within Arsenal until 17/18.

Wenger should have been moved upstairs after 15/16, or should have been let go after that FA Cup win in '17.

Our recruitment has been worse off since Wenger let go of his iron fist on transfers. Allegedly, the likes of Xhaka and Mustafi were Gazidis-sanctioned transfers. Ozil's £350k was on Gazidis. The only positive thing he did was sign Lacazette. Auba, Torreira, 'Douzi, and the likes were on Mislintat more than on Gazidis.

The problem at Arsenal is at directorial level. Gazidis and Sanllehi hired Unai when Conte was available. We've splashed over £200m since Wenger.

Dare I say, Wenger has gone from being revered to being criminally underrated. He spent his prime years here, '03 until '11 under financial austerity. When we did spend a bit, like the Ozil transfer, we were still operating on a net spend of £30m that season.

It wasn't until 2014 where we actually splashed the cash—spending nearly £100m in the summer of 2014. By then, Wenger should have been DoF at Arsenal. We still won the FA Cup that season.

15/16 was really it. If we had capable people at board level, Wenger wouldn't have survived that season. We didn't. And we still don't. I don't rate Sanllehi.

Basically, we have 4 people doing the job Wenger did by himself for nearly a decade at Arsenal. And, we aren't better off. We're worse.

Not only are we less impressive, we don't play the attractive brand of football that we did under Wenger either. We can't blame Wenger for the board's incompetence.

I do hope and pray Arteta can change this come next season. But then again.. We don't have an ambitious or strategic board.

Dude, Wenger and Wenger alone is responsible for eroding the squad's quality!! While at the same time our wage bill was increasing at a rate it had no right to - with the calibre of players we were buying. It had nothing to do with the Emirates move, it was Wenger's naivety, stupidity and arrogance that caused us to slip back, nothing else.


I won't get into the dets because, frankly, I don't have the energy. But here's a question: did Wenger own Arsenal? If we're disenchanted that we'd fallen from a title challenger to a top-4 team to a EL side, it's down to those who run Arsenal, not down to Wenger who worked near miracles until 2011 at least.

We should be blaming those who run Arsenal, not the man who was a manager, and later a coach.
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