Joe Willock

All UK football including, Scottish/Irish/Welsh Leagues and Cups. Also, domestic transfer gossip and news.

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:12 pm

jayramfootball wrote:It seems we have a fan base here who write young players off too quickly.
I am not a big fan of Willock, he' seen poor IMO, but he is young. Young players can be very erratic. Very few break into the first team and stay there - only the very very best that can turn into world stars. Let's not underestimate Willocks development. Not many 21yr old midfielders score 4 goals in about 800 minutes of PL play. Willock as a 23-24yr old might be a very good player still. He's not good enough for us right now, but who knows a couple of years down the line.

It's odd because the same fan base seems to be more supportive of older players who have little excuse to not be consistent week in week out.

Jay you can see his level, his all round game is shite, thats never going to improve. You can't be a pro with so much missing from your game and then develop it. Yes he scores goals but that's not enough, he is a midfielder. Do you play him as a striker for his goals? No, he would be a terrible striker and you can't olay him as a midfielder because he is kack.

So I don't see where he will play for Arsenal, he is not Arsenal standard and never will be.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20281
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:39 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:It seems we have a fan base here who write young players off too quickly.
I am not a big fan of Willock, he' seen poor IMO, but he is young. Young players can be very erratic. Very few break into the first team and stay there - only the very very best that can turn into world stars. Let's not underestimate Willocks development. Not many 21yr old midfielders score 4 goals in about 800 minutes of PL play. Willock as a 23-24yr old might be a very good player still. He's not good enough for us right now, but who knows a couple of years down the line.

It's odd because the same fan base seems to be more supportive of older players who have little excuse to not be consistent week in week out.

Jay you can see his level, his all round game is shite, thats never going to improve. You can't be a pro with so much missing from your game and then develop it. Yes he scores goals but that's not enough, he is a midfielder. Do you play him as a striker for his goals? No, he would be a terrible striker and you can't olay him as a midfielder because he is kack.

So I don't see where he will play for Arsenal, he is not Arsenal standard and never will be.


I's stop short of saying never.
Players develop at different rates.
A lot of the time a player can look bad purely because they lack confidence - rather than a lack of ability.
Let me give you an example from another sport - golf. I've seen players with excellent technique on the range, hitting the sweet spot of the ball and crushing it shot after shot. On the course it's tops, duffs and shanks. All in the mind. Confidence and belief is just as important in football.
Is that Willock's problem? Don't know, but I am sure interested in how he develops now after hitting a good spell.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 27015
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:44 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:It seems we have a fan base here who write young players off too quickly.
I am not a big fan of Willock, he' seen poor IMO, but he is young. Young players can be very erratic. Very few break into the first team and stay there - only the very very best that can turn into world stars. Let's not underestimate Willocks development. Not many 21yr old midfielders score 4 goals in about 800 minutes of PL play. Willock as a 23-24yr old might be a very good player still. He's not good enough for us right now, but who knows a couple of years down the line.

It's odd because the same fan base seems to be more supportive of older players who have little excuse to not be consistent week in week out.


Harry Kane looked pretty shit at 21 couldn't get a game at EPL Norwich after an injury, got recalled and sent to championship Leicester where he was a super-sub who hardly scored - he didn't turn out that badly.

Selling Willock for beer money might be a huge mistake, give him a two year extension then loan him back to Newcastle, if he does great we can call him back, if he does poorly we can sell him next summer ... far less the risk in that?


Yup, Willock has played just over 1200 minutes of football in the PL for us and just over 600 for Newcastle.
It's amazing how many expert talent spotters we have on this forum who can tell how young players are going to turn out so quickly.
Arsenal should really be recruiting from here.
:rolleyes:

Now, to be clear, for us Willock was awful. That doesn;t mean he always will be.
We should certainly not be selling on the cheap.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 27015
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby Yago » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:51 pm

cash in time
Yago
2018 World Cup Predictions League Winner
2018 World Cup Predictions League Winner
 
Posts: 7284
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:47 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 pm

Yago wrote:cash in time


20m minimum - I'd agree.
Anything less, another loan.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 27015
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby starmandb » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:39 pm

KG3 wrote:One thing I loved about Emery he was always giving the youth a chance Guendouzi, ESR, Saka, Nketiah, Willock, Martinelli a lot of these players wouldn’t have any real experience without Emery, you only have to look at Artetas treatment of other youth players, he hasn’t actually bought any one through who wasn’t given minutes under Wenger/Emery.

No doubt if Emery was still in charge Balogun, Lopez and Azeez would have first team experience by now

Gabriel, odegaard, Balogun, cotterell and azeez all had there first taste of first team experience under Arteta
User avatar
starmandb
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
 
Posts: 14125
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:55 am

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby KG3 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:20 am

starmandb wrote:
KG3 wrote:One thing I loved about Emery he was always giving the youth a chance Guendouzi, ESR, Saka, Nketiah, Willock, Martinelli a lot of these players wouldn’t have any real experience without Emery, you only have to look at Artetas treatment of other youth players, he hasn’t actually bought any one through who wasn’t given minutes under Wenger/Emery.

No doubt if Emery was still in charge Balogun, Lopez and Azeez would have first team experience by now

Gabriel, odegaard, Balogun, cotterell and azeez all had there first taste of first team experience under Arteta


Those first two were signed for the first team, with experience already in Europe’s top 5 leagues from their previous teams, so they’re irrelevant especially considering they’re both nearly 23 and 24 lol.

As for the other sure yeah he’s given them a few minutes here and there, but I’m on about regular game time giving them a chance in the prem etc.

Look at Emery for example Guendouzi was a 19 year old bench player in Ligue 2, came to Arsenal and played 48 games in all comps under Emery during his first season that’s what you call giving a youngster a proper chance and experience, they’re plenty of others Emery did the same for also
User avatar
KG3
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby Santi » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:37 am

And you think it’s good to rely on a 19 year old from ligue 2 for 48 games ? Might be why we didn’t make top 4....

Btw Martinelli didn’t start a PL game under Emery, he just played in the donkey comps (EFL cup and EL group).
Image
User avatar
Santi
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40602
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby KG3 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:51 am

Santi wrote:And you think it’s good to rely on a 19 year old from ligue 2 for 48 games ? Might be why we didn’t make top 4....

Btw Martinelli didn’t start a PL game under Emery, he just played in the donkey comps (EFL cup and EL group).


Nothing wrong with that Guedouzi players his part well, it was defining moments like Auba missing the penalty against Spurs which let us down, or the entire playing shot in europa final.

What’s your point about Martinelli?

He came from the slums in 4 tier Brazil to getting experience in Europe and English comps that’s still a massive step up
User avatar
KG3
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby Santi » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:59 am

KG3 wrote:
Santi wrote:And you think it’s good to rely on a 19 year old from ligue 2 for 48 games ? Might be why we didn’t make top 4....

Btw Martinelli didn’t start a PL game under Emery, he just played in the donkey comps (EFL cup and EL group).


Nothing wrong with that Guedouzi players his part well, it was defining moments like Auba missing the penalty against Spurs which let us down, or the entire playing shot in europa final.

What’s your point about Martinelli?

He came from the slums in 4 tier Brazil to getting experience in Europe and English comps that’s still a massive step up


That you make it sound like Emery did some wonder job with him when in reality he just used his squad in b comps which Arteta has also done.
Image
User avatar
Santi
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40602
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby KG3 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:16 am

Santi wrote:
KG3 wrote:
Santi wrote:And you think it’s good to rely on a 19 year old from ligue 2 for 48 games ? Might be why we didn’t make top 4....

Btw Martinelli didn’t start a PL game under Emery, he just played in the donkey comps (EFL cup and EL group).


Nothing wrong with that Guedouzi players his part well, it was defining moments like Auba missing the penalty against Spurs which let us down, or the entire playing shot in europa final.

What’s your point about Martinelli?

He came from the slums in 4 tier Brazil to getting experience in Europe and English comps that’s still a massive step up


That you make it sound like Emery did some wonder job with him when in reality he just used his squad in b comps which Arteta has also done.


My original post...

KG3 wrote:One thing I loved about Emery he was always giving the youth a chance Guendouzi, ESR, Saka, Nketiah, Willock, Martinelli a lot of these players wouldn’t have any real experience without Emery, you only have to look at Artetas treatment of other youth players, he hasn’t actually bought any one through who wasn’t given minutes under Wenger/Emery.

No doubt if Emery was still in charge Balogun, Lopez and Azeez would have first team experience by now


Now where exactly did I say that, Emery did a wonder job with Martinelli?

Because if that’s what you think from my initial post, then I guess you also think I said he did a wonder job with Nketiah and Willock who I think are terrible players.

The post was about giving youth a chance and experience nothing else lol
User avatar
KG3
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby Santi » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:56 pm

But what big chance did he give martinelli? That’s what I’m saying, he didn’t do anything most managers don’t do. Only guendouzi who you then picked out got some ridiculous amount of game time. I’m not talking about how good or bad they are.

The others got sub apps and b comps the same as they are under Arteta.
Image
User avatar
Santi
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40602
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:44 pm

starmandb wrote:
KG3 wrote:One thing I loved about Emery he was always giving the youth a chance Guendouzi, ESR, Saka, Nketiah, Willock, Martinelli a lot of these players wouldn’t have any real experience without Emery, you only have to look at Artetas treatment of other youth players, he hasn’t actually bought any one through who wasn’t given minutes under Wenger/Emery.

No doubt if Emery was still in charge Balogun, Lopez and Azeez would have first team experience by now

Gabriel, odegaard, Balogun, cotterell and azeez all had there first taste of first team experience under Arteta


You’ve got to start distinguishing between kids and players who are more experienced and have played first team football regularly.

You can’t just look at their age, plus as people have said before 23-24 is no longer a kid, they’re approaching their mods 20s.
Salibatelli
Member of the Year 2023
Member of the Year 2023
 
Posts: 16301
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:47 pm

Santi wrote:But what big chance did he give martinelli? That’s what I’m saying, he didn’t do anything most managers don’t do. Only guendouzi who you then picked out got some ridiculous amount of game time. I’m not talking about how good or bad they are.

The others got sub apps and b comps the same as they are under Arteta.


Arteta hardly gives Martinelli any game time, yet he looks like one of the liveliest players and one of the most likely to make things happen.

Arteta seems to have some weird dislike for some players and I don’t understand why, players like Saliba, Martinelli, Guendouzi, Balogun, Nelson, Mavropanos seem to get treated differently from certain others.

In the end it’s not very clever as he’s just speeding up how far he is from the sack, there’s no logic behind it.

This is probably my biggest big bear with him, I really don’t like this trait, I believe everyone should get a fair crack and that underperforming players shouldn’t just walk into the team when they don’t merit it, likewise I expect players who do perform to be given a fair chance.
Salibatelli
Member of the Year 2023
Member of the Year 2023
 
Posts: 16301
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Joe Willock (on loan - Newcastle United)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:02 pm

Re Willock, we should sell him to fund Artetas need for a whole new squad before we can move higher than 10th, apparently that’s what some managers need these days before they can churn out a decent performance.
Salibatelli
Member of the Year 2023
Member of the Year 2023
 
Posts: 16301
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:26 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Domestic Football

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Trendiction [Bot] and 8 guests