Formations, Tactics, Analysis, and Statistics

Discuss anything Arsenal-related. Tune in to get the latest news, and discuss results, performances, tactics, etc.

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby Zenith » Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:17 am


:sneaky2:
Image
User avatar
Zenith
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 38022
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:48 pm
Location: Across the North Sea, 200-something miles away from The Grove

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby KG3 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:15 am

Problem with this squad is its far too unbalanced, we aren’t playing to everyone’s strengths

——————-—-Leno——————

——-Chambers—Luiz—Gabriel——-

—Cedric—-Partey—Xhaka—-Tierney—

——Saka———Laca——-Auba——-

Or change the front three slightly

—-——————ESR——————

————Laca————Auba———

Depending on availability and opponents, plenty of options and variations with this formation

David Luiz our best CB who goes up another level in a back 3, where his passing can be utilised for counter attacking moves

Chambers would have no problem playing RCB considering how well he does at RB

Gabriel’s aggressive style would work well in this as Xhaka could drop back to LCB, if Gabriel is caught out of position

Cedric/Tierney both of them are quality going forward and this formation would give them more of a licence to get forward and do what they do best but also provide defensive support when needed

Xhaka not the best player in the world but after watching him under four different managers, it’s clear he excels in this formation alongside a hardworking partner previously Ramsey, Elneny and Ceballos, so I’m sure Partey could do better than those Partners (although Ramsey’s attacking is elite in comparison to Partey)

Aubameyang needs to be played in a formation which lets him have freedom to attack and minimal defensive responsibilities

Lacazette does his best work holding the ball up and bringing others into play, which works better in this formation with more attacking support

I’m just saying in my opinion with the squad we have, we could be doing much more to play to everyone’s strengths and get the best out of everyone

Only problem is even if Arteta put out this side he has no idea how to coach them, to play some decent attacking football, look at contes Chelsea/Inter or Wengers Arsenal playing 3AB, both of them played some exciting stuff, even Emery was producing some decent football with 3AB tbf
User avatar
KG3
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby swipe right » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:41 am

These are our best players in every position and should start from now till the end of the season baring injuries.
Auba - Laca - Saka
ESR - Partey - Odegard
Tierney - Gabriel - Luiz - Bellerin
Leno
swipe right
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 7699
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:05 am

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby Power n Glory » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:53 am

KG3 wrote:Problem with this squad is its far too unbalanced, we aren’t playing to everyone’s strengths

——————-—-Leno——————

——-Chambers—Luiz—Gabriel——-

—Cedric—-Partey—Xhaka—-Tierney—

——Saka———Laca——-Auba——-

Or change the front three slightly

—-——————ESR——————

————Laca————Auba———

Depending on availability and opponents, plenty of options and variations with this formation

David Luiz our best CB who goes up another level in a back 3, where his passing can be utilised for counter attacking moves

Chambers would have no problem playing RCB considering how well he does at RB

Gabriel’s aggressive style would work well in this as Xhaka could drop back to LCB, if Gabriel is caught out of position

Cedric/Tierney both of them are quality going forward and this formation would give them more of a licence to get forward and do what they do best but also provide defensive support when needed

Xhaka not the best player in the world but after watching him under four different managers, it’s clear he excels in this formation alongside a hardworking partner previously Ramsey, Elneny and Ceballos, so I’m sure Partey could do better than those Partners (although Ramsey’s attacking is elite in comparison to Partey)

Aubameyang needs to be played in a formation which lets him have freedom to attack and minimal defensive responsibilities

Lacazette does his best work holding the ball up and bringing others into play, which works better in this formation with more attacking support

I’m just saying in my opinion with the squad we have, we could be doing much more to play to everyone’s strengths and get the best out of everyone

Only problem is even if Arteta put out this side he has no idea how to coach them, to play some decent attacking football, look at contes Chelsea/Inter or Wengers Arsenal playing 3AB, both of them played some exciting stuff, even Emery was producing some decent football with 3AB tbf


A 3-4-3 could have worked against Liverpool. We've used it to beat them before but it's not a formation I would like to see back in regular rotation. If we're playing on the counter against stronger teams, it should be an option.

We need to get ESR and Saka back fit. Play a 4-2-3-1 and play either Lacazette or Auba. Not both. If Lacazette plays, we need that his energy game where he's also bursting into the box and getting touchs in that area otherwise it's just us playinh tippy tappy football with no end product. Get him playing closer to the box and forget this false 9 rubbish. If you have Ode, ESR and Saka that work just are hard when defending but can actually link play and create, there is no need for a false 9.

That Laca false 9 role was born out of the fact that we needed to compensate for a 10 that wasn't that good at defending and also having CM's that get the ball to our attackers. When we switched to a 3-4-3 it made the false 9 role even more important. With Partey, Ode, ESR and Saka, I feel they need players making runs forward and not backwards.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Member of the Year 2022
Member of the Year 2022
 
Posts: 7930
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:10 am

Gary Neville talks a lot of shit but said something yesterday that was very true. In Wengers title winning teams the forwards didn't need to worry about tracking back because the back four and two central midfielders had the defensive duties sorted. He was talking about Auba having to track back and not looking comfortable. Same could be said for Pepe.

That is why the idea of moving esr or odegaard to CM isn't the right one. Get a partner for Partey who can defend, then let the four forwards focus on attacking.

Our two big summer signings should be partners for Gabriel and Partey. Then players like ESR, Saka, Martinelli, Pepe (and Auba/Laca if they are still here) can focus on attacking with more freedom.

Ironically I think better defenders might be the solution to our lack of goals. At present our forwards are having to worry too much about covering for the players behind them.
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
User avatar
Arsenal Tone
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40751
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:18 am

Tony Adams wrote:Ironically I think better defenders might be the solution to our lack of goals. At present our forwards are having to worry too much about covering for the players behind them.


Our forwards made almost no effort to defend yesterday.
They also made no effort to attack.

Defensively, overall, we've been ok this season. Just still some clown moments.

Tactics and formations can only take us so far. We're not getting better until we change the players.

I would only consider keeping these 6:
ESR
Saka
Martinelli
Tierney (jury is now out on whether he is tough enough physically to be worth keeping)
Gabriel (still hopeful his awful form is temporary - but a question mark is now there)
Partey (jury now out on whether he is strong enough to play in the PL)

There is no other player in our squad worth keeping. We've seen plenty to know they are not good enough (either never have been good enough or are no longer good enough)
So 3 yes, 3 maybe, 19 to be sold and replaced.
That is the job to do.

The job is not to find a formation for the current squad - that will at best continue the boring football Arteta has implemented to achieve mid-table, teh odd cup run and competing at the second tier of European football (if we're lucky).
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 27014
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby Power n Glory » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:28 am

Tony Adams wrote:Gary Neville talks a lot of shit but said something yesterday that was very true. In Wengers title winning teams the forwards didn't need to worry about tracking back because the back four and two central midfielders had the defensive duties sorted. He was talking about Auba having to track back and not looking comfortable. Same could be said for Pepe.

That is why the idea of moving esr or odegaard to CM isn't the right one. Get a partner for Partey who can defend, then let the four forwards focus on attacking.

Our two big summer signings should be partners for Gabriel and Partey. Then players like ESR, Saka, Martinelli, Pepe (and Auba/Laca if they are still here) can focus on attacking with more freedom.

Ironically I think better defenders might be the solution to our lack of goals. At present our forwards are having to worry too much about covering for the players behind them.


True but even when we had a shocking defenders and weak CM players Wenger would always set the team up to be on the front foot. That would often result in teams going more defensive because they were worried about our attackers. Even in games against the likes of Barca where we couldn't dominate, they'd still be worried about players like Walcott bursting in behind on the counter.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Member of the Year 2022
Member of the Year 2022
 
Posts: 7930
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby EliteKiller » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:34 am

Tony Adams wrote:Gary Neville talks a lot of shit but said something yesterday that was very true. In Wengers title winning teams the forwards didn't need to worry about tracking back because the back four and two central midfielders had the defensive duties sorted. He was talking about Auba having to track back and not looking comfortable. Same could be said for Pepe.

That is why the idea of moving esr or odegaard to CM isn't the right one. Get a partner for Partey who can defend, then let the four forwards focus on attacking.

Our two big summer signings should be partners for Gabriel and Partey. Then players like ESR, Saka, Martinelli, Pepe (and Auba/Laca if they are still here) can focus on attacking with more freedom.

Ironically I think better defenders might be the solution to our lack of goals. At present our forwards are having to worry too much about covering for the players behind them.


Gary Neville is talking about a different era - even the best teams, like City and like Liverpool last year, have all there players working hard off the ball. The days when the front four didn't need to worry about defending are long gone ... Neville is just too stupid to know that.

Our problem is a total lack of quality in midfield we don't have a KDB, Fernandes, Henderson, Grealish, Gundogan, Maddison, Tielmans, Soucek in fact our best and pretty much only hope is a 19 year old who as talented as he is he is still a year or two away from being on a level with those players.
EliteKiller
Tony Adams
Tony Adams
 
Posts: 5652
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby theHotHead » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:01 pm

Tony Adams wrote:Gary Neville talks a lot of shit but said something yesterday that was very true. In Wengers title winning teams the forwards didn't need to worry about tracking back because the back four and two central midfielders had the defensive duties sorted. He was talking about Auba having to track back and not looking comfortable. Same could be said for Pepe.

That is why the idea of moving esr or odegaard to CM isn't the right one. Get a partner for Partey who can defend, then let the four forwards focus on attacking.

Our two big summer signings should be partners for Gabriel and Partey. Then players like ESR, Saka, Martinelli, Pepe (and Auba/Laca if they are still here) can focus on attacking with more freedom.

Ironically I think better defenders might be the solution to our lack of goals. At present our forwards are having to worry too much about covering for the players behind them.

Spot on with this. Too many people have fallen into the trap of thinking what Pep and Klopp do is the be all and end all. Its not at all. Both managers like attacking players that can defend, fine for their system of play but not for all. Sort the middle of the park out and everywhere else should fall into place nicely. The defence no longer gets overrun and your attackers can focus on attacking.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby theHotHead » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:20 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:Gary Neville talks a lot of shit but said something yesterday that was very true. In Wengers title winning teams the forwards didn't need to worry about tracking back because the back four and two central midfielders had the defensive duties sorted. He was talking about Auba having to track back and not looking comfortable. Same could be said for Pepe.

That is why the idea of moving esr or odegaard to CM isn't the right one. Get a partner for Partey who can defend, then let the four forwards focus on attacking.

Our two big summer signings should be partners for Gabriel and Partey. Then players like ESR, Saka, Martinelli, Pepe (and Auba/Laca if they are still here) can focus on attacking with more freedom.

Ironically I think better defenders might be the solution to our lack of goals. At present our forwards are having to worry too much about covering for the players behind them.


True but even when we had a shocking defenders and weak CM players Wenger would always set the team up to be on the front foot. That would often result in teams going more defensive because they were worried about our attackers. Even in games against the likes of Barca where we couldn't dominate, they'd still be worried about players like Walcott bursting in behind on the counter.

Again finding/using a system that suits the players we have. The problem with Wenger's teams un his latter years with us were the bias toward attack and the imbalance it led to defensively.

This is why I said all Emery had to do was tweak it to get us defend a little better, we would have shipped less goals and automatically moves up the table. But no, he had to be a mong! The squad wasnt that bad then and it is even better now, so the narrative that it's a bad squad cuts no ice.

I think to get the best out of the team we need someone next to Partey who can hold the fort, Elneny aint that guy and Xhaka definitely isn't. I think we should look to utilise 2 up top and 3 up top, switch it depending on the opposition. Having an extra body in midfield against better opponents should be the goal, we can be more adventurous against teams that are not as dominant
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby Santi » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:23 pm

Tony Adams wrote:Gary Neville talks a lot of shit but said something yesterday that was very true. In Wengers title winning teams the forwards didn't need to worry about tracking back because the back four and two central midfielders had the defensive duties sorted. He was talking about Auba having to track back and not looking comfortable. Same could be said for Pepe.

That is why the idea of moving esr or odegaard to CM isn't the right one. Get a partner for Partey who can defend, then let the four forwards focus on attacking.

Our two big summer signings should be partners for Gabriel and Partey. Then players like ESR, Saka, Martinelli, Pepe (and Auba/Laca if they are still here) can focus on attacking with more freedom.

Ironically I think better defenders might be the solution to our lack of goals. At present our forwards are having to worry too much about covering for the players behind them.



And yet in the same 5 minute spell of fantastic commentary he was slagging Ozil and praising odegaard for doing the running that Ozil supposedly didn’t.

Neville is a thick c***, wouldn’t listen to a word he said even if I may agree with the bit you called out, even the old blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again.
Image
User avatar
Santi
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40602
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby swipe right » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:50 pm

Take a look at this video explaining Cruyff’s 343.
https://youtu.be/DWjmbTp5jq8
With our current players don’t you think this would make sense for us?

Auba - Laca - Saka
Odegard
ESR —— Partey
Xhaka
Gabriel - Luiz - Chambers
Leno


Don’t ignore this post because I need feedback. Thanks.
swipe right
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 7699
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:05 am

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby theHotHead » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:53 pm

swipe right wrote:Take a look at this video explaining Cruyff’s 343.
https://youtu.be/DWjmbTp5jq8
With our current players don’t you think this would make sense for us?

Auba/Martinelli - Laca - Saka/Pepe
Odegard
ESR —— Partey
Elneny
Gabriel - Luiz - Chambers
Leno


Don’t ignore this post because I need feedback. Thanks.

Edited for you
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby swipe right » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:58 pm

theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:Take a look at this video explaining Cruyff’s 343.
https://youtu.be/DWjmbTp5jq8
With our current players don’t you think this would make sense for us?

Auba/Martinelli - Laca - Saka/Pepe
Odegard
ESR —— Partey
Elneny
Gabriel - Luiz - Chambers
Leno


Don’t ignore this post because I need feedback. Thanks.

Edited for you

You want El Neny to play the guardiola metronome position? You mad?
swipe right
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 7699
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:05 am

Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis and Statistics

Postby Arsenal Tone » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:01 pm

Image

Maybe Saliba or Mavrapanos can fill one of the CB spots? Maybe Luiz will stay?

Maybe Bellerin will stay or Cedric will be first choice or even Chambers will hold on to his place?

Maybe Xhaka or Elneny will take one of the CM spots. Maybe Azeez will get a chance, or will he be more of a winger/CAM?

Maybe Odegaard will stay.

Maybe one or both of Auba/Laca will stay. Maybe Balogun will step up?

There are a lot of positions up for grabs and it will be fascinating to see our squad when the summer window shuts.
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
User avatar
Arsenal Tone
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40751
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:03 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Arsenal Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Marsbar100, Salibatelli and 43 guests
cron