Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby theHotHead » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:57 am

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We definitely need to change the system, we cannot have the same gameplan with the team we now have.

This is where Arteta needs to show pragmatism and a knowledge of the game, or is he the one trick pony I believe him to be!!


Why not?
Playing our best, we can win any game we have left.
You don’t change a winning way of playing.

A winning way of playing works when you have the personnel playing that were winning those games. When you have second string players considerably lower in ability than those they are replacing, playing the same way is a recipe for disaster, we saw a glimpse against Palace.

We don't have Partey, watch us get mullered if we try to play the same way with different personnel.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby VCC » Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:33 am

Find the hand break and throw it away.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby jayramfootball » Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:43 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We definitely need to change the system, we cannot have the same gameplan with the team we now have.

This is where Arteta needs to show pragmatism and a knowledge of the game, or is he the one trick pony I believe him to be!!


Why not?
Playing our best, we can win any game we have left.
You don’t change a winning way of playing.

A winning way of playing works when you have the personnel playing that were winning those games. When you have second string players considerably lower in ability than those they are replacing, playing the same way is a recipe for disaster, we saw a glimpse against Palace.

We don't have Partey, watch us get mullered if we try to play the same way with different personnel.


Partey has had 3-4 good games all season - otherwise he has been pretty average.
He's not the reason have been winning so many games.
If anything Xhaka has had a bigger influence in the middle and of course our forward line has been playing really well.

We didn't see anything definitive against Palace. We just played badly.
Not sure why 1 game all of a sudden defines our club after a run of being one of the in form teams in Europe.

If we go on a bad run of games over an extended period - THEN changes are worth discussing , but after 1 game? Just madness.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby jayramfootball » Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:55 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We definitely need to change the system, we cannot have the same gameplan with the team we now have.

This is where Arteta needs to show pragmatism and a knowledge of the game, or is he the one trick pony I believe him to be!!


Why not?
Playing our best, we can win any game we have left.
You don’t change a winning way of playing.


Did watch the Crystal Palace game, and the Liverpool one?

I mean yes we've had a good run of wins against teams we're favored to beat but the attacking isn't free flowing for me, Laca can't score and if Saka / Martinelli don't get it done we're pretty screwed.

An ideal system would be one that allows our whole front line to be able to score.

Again, your cutting corners instead of reaching for optimal performance ............ which is the difference between your's / Arteta's way versus someone like Klopp.

I prefer Klopps way ........ you obviously prefer the way that got us 8th, and this is why we won't agree on things, I obviously want what's best for Arsenal, you want whatever makes it look like Arteta is justified, we have different priorities.

.......... if we were 3rd / 2nd / 1st you could have your view, but as we're on the back foot on the way to a likely 5th, improvement is obviously needed and its not just the personnel, unless we got a Lukaku type CF this system limits the effectiveness of our strikers.



What I want is for us to win football matches and keep progressing.
My perspective is based on my view that we were so far in the shit when Wenger left that the club needed a massive rebuild from the ground up - and I stated such at the time.
I see no point in pretending we're 'top 4 or shit' as seems to the case these days.
We haven't been a top side for 5 years at least - but now we are looking like we are headed in the right direction.
For those that might be unaware we're about to go past the longest period in our history without winning the title - that didn't happen in the last 2 years. It happened over the last 18 years.

My criteria remains the same as it did.
Show progress this year whilst rebuilding.
Top 4 next and closer to the top.
There are no short cuts.

I don't care who plays or who manages the club - only that they are doing the business.
As soon as they are not , I have no time for them.

Our attacking play has been good for a while and our football - rightly - has been getting the plaudits.
The 'system' has been working.
Just because we lose a game away to Palace, doesn't mean we should panic and start doing something else.

This is a young team going into a PL run in with pressures they have never faced before.
They may come through. it, they may not - but either way they are gaining great experience of actually being in a top 4 race that NO ONE thought we would be in at the start of the season.

Why not just enjoy this great young team as they progress?
I don't see all this drama of 'it's all over for Arsenal if we don't get 4th'.
I don't get all the instant assessments of player based on 1 game - or in some cases 1 bad pass, tackle or mistake.
I don't get the drooling over other teams players that are currently engaged in relegation battles with their teams.

What I see is a reset for the club and a young squad that is actually way over performing where people thought they would be and ahead of schedule.

Some of the criticism is absurd.
Sign of the times I think - fans mirroring society where they either get exactly what they want, when they want, in the way they want or everything is shit or wrong or has to be changed. No notion of actually working towards something and earning success.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:38 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We definitely need to change the system, we cannot have the same gameplan with the team we now have.

This is where Arteta needs to show pragmatism and a knowledge of the game, or is he the one trick pony I believe him to be!!


Why not?
Playing our best, we can win any game we have left.
You don’t change a winning way of playing.


Did watch the Crystal Palace game, and the Liverpool one?

I mean yes we've had a good run of wins against teams we're favored to beat but the attacking isn't free flowing for me, Laca can't score and if Saka / Martinelli don't get it done we're pretty screwed.

An ideal system would be one that allows our whole front line to be able to score.

Again, your cutting corners instead of reaching for optimal performance ............ which is the difference between your's / Arteta's way versus someone like Klopp.

I prefer Klopps way ........ you obviously prefer the way that got us 8th, and this is why we won't agree on things, I obviously want what's best for Arsenal, you want whatever makes it look like Arteta is justified, we have different priorities.

.......... if we were 3rd / 2nd / 1st you could have your view, but as we're on the back foot on the way to a likely 5th, improvement is obviously needed and its not just the personnel, unless we got a Lukaku type CF this system limits the effectiveness of our strikers.



What I want is for us to win football matches and keep progressing.
My perspective is based on my view that we were so far in the shit when Wenger left that the club needed a massive rebuild from the ground up - and I stated such at the time.
I see no point in pretending we're 'top 4 or shit' as seems to the case these days.
We haven't been a top side for 5 years at least - but now we are looking like we are headed in the right direction.
For those that might be unaware we're about to go past the longest period in our history without winning the title - that didn't happen in the last 2 years. It happened over the last 18 years.

My criteria remains the same as it did.
Show progress this year whilst rebuilding.
Top 4 next and closer to the top.
There are no short cuts.

I don't care who plays or who manages the club - only that they are doing the business.
As soon as they are not , I have no time for them.

Our attacking play has been good for a while and our football - rightly - has been getting the plaudits.
The 'system' has been working.
Just because we lose a game away to Palace, doesn't mean we should panic and start doing something else.

This is a young team going into a PL run in with pressures they have never faced before.
They may come through. it, they may not - but either way they are gaining great experience of actually being in a top 4 race that NO ONE thought we would be in at the start of the season.

Why not just enjoy this great young team as they progress?
I don't see all this drama of 'it's all over for Arsenal if we don't get 4th'.
I don't get all the instant assessments of player based on 1 game - or in some cases 1 bad pass, tackle or mistake.
I don't get the drooling over other teams players that are currently engaged in relegation battles with their teams.

What I see is a reset for the club and a young squad that is actually way over performing where people thought they would be and ahead of schedule.

Some of the criticism is absurd.
Sign of the times I think - fans mirroring society where they either get exactly what they want, when they want, in the way they want or everything is shit or wrong or has to be changed. No notion of actually working towards something and earning success.


Everything we discussed here and my critic I've been warning about is playing out, right now, against Brighton.

........and top 4 along with it especially if Spurs win against Villa.

Our football is that of a 5th-8tb team and that is not what we hired Arteta for.

We wanted top 4 football and 150m later he's failing and his system is crap.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:40 pm

ESR and Odegaard in the same team only works if one is out wide or with a DM and back five behind them!
Ramsdale/Turner
Tomiyasu/???--White/Saliba--Gabriel/Holding--Tierney/???
Partey/Elneny--???/Xhaka
Saka/???--Odegaard/Smith Rowe--???/Martinelli
???/Nketiah
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby thebigbangtheo » Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:49 pm

VCC wrote:
thebigbangtheo wrote:Ok. Unfortunately, my previously mentioned fear and concern regards Crystal Palace and their appetite for pissing on the chips of rival London teams has rung true and damn, we got properly dry humped on Monday night to the extent that every gunner across the globe ought to be limping now from a dead leg until the weekend.

In light of the situation now with the injuries to Tierney and Partey compounding that to Tomiyasu, do the enforced personnel changes also warrant a change in formation too in addressing the loss of these key components of our team, or do we keep faith that the incoming replacements have been to B&Q and bought wheelbarrows for their massive bollocks?

3-4-3 Formation:
Ramsdale; White, Holding, Magalhaes; Soares, Odegaard, Xhaka, Saka; Pepe, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe. Or alternatively,

4-3-3 Formation:
Ramsdale; Soares, White, Magalhaes, Tavares; Odegaard, Lokonga, Xhaka; Saka, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe. Or alternatively,

4-2-3-1 Formation:
Ramsdale; Soares, White, Magalhaes, Tavares; Lokonga, Xhaka; Saka, Odegaard, Smith-Rowe; Martinelli.

If it's deemed that Tavares is still suffering PTSD and unfit for duty, then I'd prefer to see Saka at left back/wing back over anyone else and thus bring Pepe into the right wing forward position.

Not one of those formations has Laca in them, Arteta is more likely to play myself up front than drop Laca unless he has passed on to the afterlife.


I could be way off the mark here VCC, but something is telling me that at this moment in time right now, there might be more suggested formations and line-ups from the Gooner Nation minus the Frenchman than there are any number including him.

With that then being the case and in the event of one of them having been scribbled down on Vidal Sassoon headed note paper, get your bags packed fella and don't forget your boots.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby Zenith » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:16 pm

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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:27 pm

The issue we have is Martinelli, Saka and ESR can score a goal .......... but they are not legitimate goal scorers yet, none of them.

Relying on the kids to punt enough goals to win us this last hurdle of games was the mistake all the fans feared would happen when we failed in January to get a striker.

I would go 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 to either strengthen midfield or strengthen defence to give more time without going a goal behind to the attack to get the goal we need.

3-4-3 we would of resisted CP and Brighton's attacks much better, we had the best defence in the league with 3-4-3 with worse defenders a year or two ago.

Plus with either of those formations we can squeeze Saka / Pepe and Martinelli into the WF positions focusing more on attack rather than as wingers where they have dual duties of attacking and holding our wide defence.

Because of Odegaard and ESR however I think 4-3-3 would be the easiest transition, push Martinelli and Saka in field more and up in line with Laca /Pepe / ESR or whomever and stick Odegaard on LM where he can still attack but also help solidify midfield along with Xhaka and Partey so we don't get overrun.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby Ach » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:52 pm

Worst in the top 5 leagues lol

Nothing else we can do but laugh

Crying is an option but life being sucked out of this club and fans have left us emotionless
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby VCC » Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:20 pm

thebigbangtheo wrote:
VCC wrote:
thebigbangtheo wrote:Ok. Unfortunately, my previously mentioned fear and concern regards Crystal Palace and their appetite for pissing on the chips of rival London teams has rung true and damn, we got properly dry humped on Monday night to the extent that every gunner across the globe ought to be limping now from a dead leg until the weekend.

In light of the situation now with the injuries to Tierney and Partey compounding that to Tomiyasu, do the enforced personnel changes also warrant a change in formation too in addressing the loss of these key components of our team, or do we keep faith that the incoming replacements have been to B&Q and bought wheelbarrows for their massive bollocks?

3-4-3 Formation:
Ramsdale; White, Holding, Magalhaes; Soares, Odegaard, Xhaka, Saka; Pepe, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe. Or alternatively,

4-3-3 Formation:
Ramsdale; Soares, White, Magalhaes, Tavares; Odegaard, Lokonga, Xhaka; Saka, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe. Or alternatively,

4-2-3-1 Formation:
Ramsdale; Soares, White, Magalhaes, Tavares; Lokonga, Xhaka; Saka, Odegaard, Smith-Rowe; Martinelli.

If it's deemed that Tavares is still suffering PTSD and unfit for duty, then I'd prefer to see Saka at left back/wing back over anyone else and thus bring Pepe into the right wing forward position.

Not one of those formations has Laca in them, Arteta is more likely to play myself up front than drop Laca unless he has passed on to the afterlife.


I could be way off the mark here VCC, but something is telling me that at this moment in time right now, there might be more suggested formations and line-ups from the Gooner Nation minus the Frenchman than there are any number including him.

With that then being the case and in the event of one of them having been scribbled down on Vidal Sassoon headed note paper, get your bags packed fella and don't forget your boots.

Only boots i have now are wellies but yes i will polish them and guarantee i bring more goals than laca
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby KG3 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:49 am

Considering injuries against attacking teams I’d go with this

—————-—-Ramsdale———————

——-Holding——-White—-Gabriel——-

Cedric———-Elneny—Xhaka——-—Saka

———Pepe———Martinelli——ESR———

Against defensive sides I’d go with 4-3-1-2, ESR/ODE and Saka alternating, players having creative freedom and none of those predictable plays Arteta

——————Ramsdale——————
Cedric—-White—-Gabriel—Tavares

———————Elneny—————-
—-Odegaard——————-—Saka

————————-ESR——————
———Martinelli——-—Pepe———
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:34 am

^drop odegaard?
Ramsdale/Turner
Tomiyasu/???--White/Saliba--Gabriel/Holding--Tierney/???
Partey/Elneny--???/Xhaka
Saka/???--Odegaard/Smith Rowe--???/Martinelli
???/Nketiah
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby firfi » Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:47 pm

KG3 wrote:Considering injuries against attacking teams I’d go with this

—————-—-Ramsdale———————

——-Holding——-White—-Gabriel——-

Cedric———-Elneny—Xhaka——-—Saka

———Pepe———Martinelli——ESR———

Against defensive sides I’d go with 4-3-1-2, ESR/ODE and Saka alternating, players having creative freedom and none of those predictable plays Arteta

——————Ramsdale——————
Cedric—-White—-Gabriel—Tavares

———————Elneny—————-
—-Odegaard——————-—Saka

————————-ESR——————
———Martinelli——-—Pepe———


Saka can't play left wingback and he can't play also in the midfield.
You can argue about it 100 times ,but he can't play anything ,but the wings if he wants to become world class player.
Having 21 years old Saka to switch positions every game to suit this weak team will just stumble his progress into becoming a world class player.
We clearly can't get the ball forward when we're playing with Odegaard/Xhaka/Lakonga and u expect us to move the ball with saka odegaard and elneny its just impossible.
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Re: Tactics, Formations, Analysis, and Statistics

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:01 pm

Zenith wrote:


I am not surprised.
It's our finishing that is the problem.
Even with just average PL finishing we'd have beaten Brighton and Southampton and be in the box seat now for the top 4.

It's actually been an issue all year - but we've had periods where it has been better.
It's not just big chances either - our shooting from range is really appalling.
I'd like to see an improvement there in the coming months.
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