Formations, Tactics, Analysis, and Statistics

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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby swipe right » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:25 am

Ok. Here’s how I see us recovering.

Front line:
Laca at CF who plays like van Persie used to which is take the first touch deep, play the ball wide to the wide attackers and then ghost in behind the CBs as they focus on marking the wide attackers.

Auba at LWF to start a bit deep and then arc his run between the RB and CB the way later day Henry used to. This requires midfield to play through balls to him.

Martinelli at RWF to use his pace on the break like Theo. To get a run on the advancing fullback and force the CBs wide to counter him.

Partey and Ceballos as CMs who bring the ball out of midfield and play forward passes to the front line.

Xhaka as the deep lying playmaker and shield in front of the defense.

Gabriel and Holding at CB

Tierney and AMN at full backs with direction to get forward and overload the flanks when in possession.
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:41 am

3-4-3 worked, we will lose games occasionally with it and Arteta needs to stop being knee jerk and switching to a back four every time we do lose.

Our best XI for getting results this season is:

Leno
Holding-Gabriel-Tierney
Bellerin-Ceballos-Xhaka-Niles
Saka-Lacazette-Aubameyang

When Partey returns we need to decide which one of Ceballos and Xhaka works best with him as he should be first choice. If the answer is neither then we need to look at the transfer market.

When Mari returns we could look at him playing LCB and Tierney moving up to LWB.

Saka should rotate with Pepe and Niles between RWF and LWB. When Martinelli returns he takes the RWF spot and Saka could even move to CM next to Partey:

Leno
Holding-Gabriel-Mari
Bellerin-Partey-Saka-Tierney
Martinelli-Lacazette-Aubameyang
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Dejan » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:02 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:Our strongest lineup, IMO:

Leno
Saliba Gabriel Tierney
Bellerin —- Partey —- Elneny —- Saka
Martinelli — Aubameyang
Lacazette
Saliba better than luiz..

Based on what exactly?

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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:39 am

DiamondGooner wrote:


Summed up in a nutshell.

"Mikel Arteta, to his credit, has now tried to change things. He has put Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang up front, and put Joe Willock in midfield, and shifted to a back four. If anything, we now look just as blunt but even more wide open defensively. It doesn’t matter how we line up, we don’t have the ball in dangerous areas."

Hence why he needs to go to a defensive capable set up, 3-4-3 or 4-4-2.

I know he won't go with 4-4-2 after Molde because Arteta isn't comfortable playing end to end football being the micro manager and control freak he is.

He should just stick to 3-4-3 and develop it, all we lacked when using it was our wide players delivering better balls, 3-4-3 used to keep us in games long enough for us to nick that goal while shutting out the opposition.

Its not sexy but we won 8/10 games pretty much using it, rather that than the utter losses we're getting now.


This is the line that sums it up for me.

Arsenal aren’t going to improve no matter how the team is lined up unless the approach is altered
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:54 am

Dejan wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:Our strongest lineup, IMO:

Leno
Saliba Gabriel Tierney
Bellerin —- Partey —- Elneny —- Saka
Martinelli — Aubameyang
Lacazette
Saliba better than luiz..

Based on what exactly?

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What I already know of Luiz and what I think I know of Saliba.

Plus videos like these:

Saliba’s strengths and weaknesses: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... ljL_MNw9SI

David Luiz’s errors: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... bprfNwreVg

And articles like this:

Comparing William Saliba’s 2019-20 stats to Arsenal’s current CBs

William Saliba’s loan at Saint-Etienne has come to an acrimonious end, with the defender set to miss the French Cup final and return to Arsenal after the two clubs failed to agree to an extension to his temporary deal.
Centre-back has been a problem position for Arsenal this season, and we’ve compared Saliba’s 2019-20 Ligue 1 stats to the corresponding Premier League figures of Shkodran Mustafi, Sokratis, David Luiz and Calum Chambers.
Pablo Mari and Rob Holding have been excluded due to a lack of game-time, having succumbed to Arsenal’s injury curse.

Defensive stats
As we so often point out in these articles, when analysing a defender’s stats, it’s important not to focus too much on the quantity of their numbers and instead try to find signs of the quality of the figures.

So rather than concentrate on the number of tackles the centre-backs make per 90 minutes, their tackle success rate is perhaps more illuminating.
Saliba, in this regard, ranks highly. His tackle success rate of 77.3% is bettered only by Chambers’ 84%. Mustafi and Luiz have identical records, averaging 1.0 successful tackles per 90 minutes at a success rate of 76.9%, while Sokratis records the lowest figure at 68.4%.
The numbers are not so kind on Saliba when it comes to his success rate on aerial duels. In winning 61.4% of his aerial battles, Saliba is right in the middle of the quartet. Mustafi (77.8%) is a clear leader in this regard, followed by Sokratis (67.4%). Chambers (54.5%) and Luiz (51.6%) lag behind.
Saliba’s numbers for interceptions reflect well on his ability to read the game, averaging 1.9 per 90 minutes in Ligue 1 this season. That is higher than all Arsenal’s current options, with Mustafi (1.4) the next best followed by Chambers (1.3), Luiz (1.1) and Sokratis (0.9).

Arsenal’s centre-backs have been criticised for making rash decisions and a lack of discipline, and it’s interesting to note Saliba makes far fewer fouls per 90 minutes, averaging just 0.2. Mustafi and Luiz record the lowest numbers for Arsenal with 0.9, followed by Sokratis (1.0) and Chambers (1.5).

Build-up play
Playing under Mikel Arteta requires Arsenal’s defenders to be comfortable on the ball, something which hasn’t always been too smooth in recent years.

Saliba, however, has the best passing accuracy of the quintet (88%), followed closely by Sokratis (87.9%), Luiz (84.7%), Mustafi (82.8%) and Chambers (82.4%).
Also in Saliba’s favour, the Frenchman’s long pass success rate of 61% also betters his new competition, with Mustafi in second with 52.8%, followed by Luiz (49.1%), Sokratis (48.7%) and Chambers (40.3%).
While scoring or creating goals is not what Saliba has been signed for, he is still the only member of the quintet without a goal or assist.
Luiz leads the way with two goals and one assist, Sokratis has scored twice, Chambers has one goal and one assist and Mustafi has a solitary assist.


Source: https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-re ... rrent-cbs/
Ramsdale
(Turner/Hein)
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
(Tomiyasu/Niles) (Timber/Holding) (Trusty/Kiwior) (Tierney/Tavares)
Odegaard(c) —- Rice
(Xhaka/Lokonga) —- (Partey/Elneny)
Havertz
(Jorginho/Vieira)
Saka Jesus Martinelli
(Pepe/Nelson) (Nketiah/Balogun) (Trossard/ESR)


Last Updated: 07/02/23
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Ach » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:00 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:Our strongest lineup, IMO:

Leno
Saliba Gabriel Tierney
Bellerin —- Partey —- Elneny —- Saka
Martinelli — Aubameyang
Lacazette

So in your opinion our strongest line up consists of a player who's never played for us (Saliba), a LB at CB (Tierney), a bang average Egyptian, a player who prefers to play on the left you put on the right, a player who prefers to play upfront plays on the left
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:09 am

Ach wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:Our strongest lineup, IMO:

Leno
Saliba Gabriel Tierney
Bellerin —- Partey —- Elneny —- Saka
Martinelli — Aubameyang
Lacazette

So in your opinion our strongest line up consists of a player who's never played for us (Saliba), a LB at CB (Tierney), a bang average Egyptian, a player who prefers to play on the left you put on the right, a player who prefers to play upfront plays on the left


Who would you pick?
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Ach » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:13 am

Leno

Bellerin luiz Gabriel Tierney

Pepe Partey Ceballos Saka

Laca Auba
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:20 am

Ach wrote:Leno

Bellerin luiz Gabriel Tierney

Pepe Partey Ceballos Saka

Laca Auba


Not bad but I don't rate Ceballos. I prefer Elneny. Quicker, bigger, stronger and much better at recycling the ball and allowing us to play higher up the pitch.
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:23 am

Ach wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:Our strongest lineup, IMO:

Leno
Saliba Gabriel Tierney
Bellerin —- Partey —- Elneny —- Saka
Martinelli — Aubameyang
Lacazette

So in your opinion our strongest line up consists of a player who's never played for us (Saliba), a LB at CB (Tierney), a bang average Egyptian, a player who prefers to play on the left you put on the right, a player who prefers to play upfront plays on the left


You have to make the best of what you have and from what I know the above should get us the most points from our remaining games.

Also, it doesn’t matter where a player prefers to play, for me. It’s about where they’re most effective for the team.

For example, I prefer Martinelli up front but he has been very effective when playing off another striker and appears to be the most capable of playing in any of the three positions up front; Aubameyang has been very effective from the left but not so much on the right or up top; and Lacazette can only really play one of the three positions up front. So putting Martinelli on the right, Aubameyang on the left, and Lacazette through the middle gives us our strongest attack at the least cost to effectiveness.

Ideally, Martinelli should replace Lacazette up front but I don’t trust any of our right attacking options atm.
Ramsdale
(Turner/Hein)
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
(Tomiyasu/Niles) (Timber/Holding) (Trusty/Kiwior) (Tierney/Tavares)
Odegaard(c) —- Rice
(Xhaka/Lokonga) —- (Partey/Elneny)
Havertz
(Jorginho/Vieira)
Saka Jesus Martinelli
(Pepe/Nelson) (Nketiah/Balogun) (Trossard/ESR)


Last Updated: 07/02/23
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby theHotHead » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:02 pm

Based on who is available to play now:

Leno
Bellerin Luiz Gabriel Tierney
Elneny
Pepe Ceballos Saka
Auba Laca


Based on everyone being fit and registered:

Leno
Bellerin Luiz Gabriel Tierney
Ceballos Partey Saka
Ozil
Martinelli Auba
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Ach » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:11 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Ach wrote:Leno

Bellerin luiz Gabriel Tierney

Pepe Partey Ceballos Saka

Laca Auba


Not bad but I don't rate Ceballos. I prefer Elneny. Quicker, bigger, stronger and much better at recycling the ball and allowing us to play higher up the pitch.

I don't rate any of our CMs but the 2 I've chosen are the best of a bad bunch. Harsh on Partey but from what I've seen he looks absolute dog and only put him in cos it's early and pray he improves.

Only 5 of the 11 I chose were definite tbh. Everyone else can be sold or not.
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby ag6789 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:22 pm

Nothing will work if we cannot score goals. It is sadly down to Auba and Laca, who basically have kept us afloat for last seasons, to find their touch. Otherwise I shudder to think what might happen.
It is clear the midfield we have, have 0 contribution offensively, so unless the wing backs and strikers recombine and give us a restart, all plans are down the drain.
The current team has been built around the two strikers so w/o a total overhaul I don't see a way out of the current quagmire.
At this rate around January Arteta will be out, the new fellow will have an Everest to climb and relegation might become a reality.
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:53 pm

Ach wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Ach wrote:Leno

Bellerin luiz Gabriel Tierney

Pepe Partey Ceballos Saka

Laca Auba


Not bad but I don't rate Ceballos. I prefer Elneny. Quicker, bigger, stronger and much better at recycling the ball and allowing us to play higher up the pitch.

I don't rate any of our CMs but the 2 I've chosen are the best of a bad bunch. Harsh on Partey but from what I've seen he looks absolute dog and only put him in cos it's early and pray he improves.

Only 5 of the 11 I chose were definite tbh. Everyone else can be sold or not.


Partey looks like he has the qualities to carry and pass the ball forward at the very least and can actually defend. It's worth checking some of the YouTube footage. But it all depends on how he will be used and if Arteta will make him the focal point when it comes to progressing the ball, his technical abilities and not just see his physical/defensive attributes.
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Re: Formation and Tactics

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:08 pm

ag6789 wrote:Nothing will work if we cannot score goals. It is sadly down to Auba and Laca, who basically have kept us afloat for last seasons, to find their touch. Otherwise I shudder to think what might happen.
It is clear the midfield we have, have 0 contribution offensively, so unless the wing backs and strikers recombine and give us a restart, all plans are down the drain.
The current team has been built around the two strikers so w/o a total overhaul I don't see a way out of the current quagmire.
At this rate around January Arteta will be out, the new fellow will have an Everest to climb and relegation might become a reality.


Another way would he to play two pacey inverted wingers that take risks on both flanks and force openings. It will the give the strikers some space.

I don't like wide strikers on the wing. It's too easy to shut them down which is why I'm not in favour of Auba wide and prefer a proper winger. If we think back to the Wenger years when we had Podolski or Walcott, neither would look productive if they weren't scoring goals, were totally dependent on service and struggled most against teams parking the bus.
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