The Kroenke Problem

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:47 am

Fascinating to watch the likes of Zeddie and LMAO create ever more fictitious scenarios about Oligarchs giving free money to benefit people they don't like, creating mythical valuations based on there own personal fantasies .... Why do they do that?

We have all the real evidence of what actual happened right in front of us ... a billionaire has bought us for a billion pounds, we are now worth 2.3 billion, that's probably why he's a billionaire and Zeddie and LMAO are fantasists on an internet football site ...

Do the pair of you think you are going to convince even one person that you know better than Kroenke? better than Usmanov? better than all their combined financial expertise. That you can tell massively successful investors how they should have spent their money because you know better? Seriously that's your now your narrative?

It's done, you can cry all you like but you won't change one share purchase, one player sale, one contract signed, or one useless manager fired. It's all history rewrite it as much as you want with ifs, but, whats and maybes ... the truth is you ain't changing a thing.

I've attempted to explain why a multi-billionaire invested the way he did to make yet another billion profit ... you don't understand it .... so let's just move on and look forward to the new season.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Callum » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:56 am

EliteKiller wrote:Fascinating to watch the likes of Zeddie and LMAO create ever more fictitious scenarios about Oligarchs giving free money to benefit people they don't like, creating mythical valuations based on there own personal fantasies .... Why do they do that?

We have all the real evidence of what actual happened right in front of us ... a billionaire has bought us for a billion pounds, we are now worth 2.3 billion, that's probably why he's a billionaire and Zeddie and LMAO are fantasists on an internet football site ...

Do the pair of you think you are going to convince even one person that you know better than Kroenke? better than Usmanov? better than all their combined financial expertise. That you can tell massively successful investors how they should have spent their money because you know better? Seriously that's your now your narrative?

It's done, you can cry all you like but you won't change one share purchase, one player sale, one contract signed, or one useless manager fired. It's all history rewrite it as much as you want with ifs, but, whats and maybes ... the truth is you ain't changing a thing.

I've attempted to explain why a multi-billionaire invested the way he did to make yet another billion profit ... you don't understand it .... so let's just move on and look forward to the new season.

Claiming that Kroenke purchasing Arsenal was a bad deal for him is a wildly different statement than claiming Kroenke purchasing Arsenal was bad for the club.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:38 am

Callum wrote:Claiming that Kroenke purchasing Arsenal was a bad deal for him is a wildly different statement than claiming Kroenke purchasing Arsenal was bad for the club.


and finally the little light-bulb comes on ... Kroenke is all about Kroenke fortunately for us Arsenal doing well and Kroenke making money are very much now linked .... but until we belonged 100% to Kroenke 28th September 2018, then there wasn't a cat in hell's chance of him putting money in. Now that any upside all goes back to him, let's see what he does ... new management, new backroom, new players

He's owned the club for less than 12 months ... some people simply don't seem to be able to grasp that fact ....
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:42 am

Zedie wrote:
I think theyve gone silent after I had to spell out their logic for them using their own sources and they couldn't handle it.

EK is on tilt so expect more abuse and nonsensical bollocks.

Hothead is on a banned substance, because he cant even make sense of his own points

LOOOOOL @ Zedie !!! If you think the pages and pages of beatings that I gave you during this discussion has been equalled by or bettered by the one mistake I have made - getting the date wrong in an article - you are stupider than I thought !!!

The date was wrong but the content of the article was still correct and still proved that your argument is bollox - namely that the FA FFP is not and has NEVER BEEN as stringent as UEFA's FFP.

You have based your argument on incorrect FFP data, been called out about it, refused to admit you are wrong and just carry on oblivious to that fact. I have argued with with EK and DG in the past, 2 of the most relentless posters on this forum. when I have bettered them they have had the good grace to admit they were wrong. I have been bettered by them both and I too have admitted I am wrong.

You don't know how to argue, you cannot be wrong AND strong, thats bollox. Thats why I have not bothered responding to you !! If you cannot admit you are wrong then I have no interest in having a discussion with you. So knock yourself out bloke.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:45 am

Power n Glory wrote:@Zedie....the points have been hammered to death and it's going around in circles and now just a case of point scoring. You're repeating the same thing, it gets an answer but none of it sinks in. Comprehension is the problem and why this debate can't go any further.

As said before,the window hasn't closed, the season hasn't started and if by some miraculous chance we do well this season, if Emery gets his act together, if we actually sign some quality and if the work behind the scenes pays off, the discussion on ownership and funding stops. As it always does.

Zedie has had his arse handed to him over and over. He is boring as f**k. Only so many times you can make someone look silly before you get bored of it.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:57 am

Zedie wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:@Zedie....the points have been hammered to death and it's going around in circles and now just a case of point scoring. You're repeating the same thing, it gets an answer but none of it sinks in. Comprehension is the problem and why this debate can't go any further.

As said before,the window hasn't closed, the season hasn't started and if by some miraculous chance we do well this season, if Emery gets his act together, if we actually sign some quality and if the work behind the scenes pays off, the discussion on ownership and funding stops. As it always does.


Theres a lot of simple questions you guys cant answer and those questions keep getting overrun with responses that quite literally dont have a bearing on the topic at hand.

Your main argument that because wenger and gazidis f***ked up raul and vinai shouldn't be given a budget, which leads to lichtensteiner and Suarez type deadwood signings makes no sense whatsoever.

Someone f***ked up so shut up shop isnt a viable way forward and makes no sense whatsoever.

Talk of net spend and max private equity amounts being trumpeted by those two plus jayram which literally only applies if you ignore:

New Adidas deal
Ability to sell twice within each season of the 3 year period to cover the additional expenditure from the following season.
Wage bill decreases

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Talk of training monreal to run faster, kos to get injured less, mustafi to stop making fatal errors every other game to resolve our woes makes no sense whatsoever.

I honestly dont understand how between you all, you can come to these conclusions.


Yep, comprehension is definitely a problem here. If you don't understand the points being made, it would be a waste of time rehashing what has already be said.

For me, the way we ended our season and our away form....we shouldn't have lost to Palace, Wolves and Leicester City, we should have beat Brighton. We shouldn't have to spend an extra £100m to beat those teams. It comes back to coaching and preparation.

But as said, we have made changes to the coaching set up again and we'll see if it has an effect.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:19 am

The fact of the matter is Emery got some of it right and some of it wrong, for me for probably half of the season. An improvement in things we have direct control over puts us further up the table - with £0 spent!
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:19 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:This thread dies if we end up signing some decent players this summer. That's the reality. Where the money comes from becomes irrelevant and the focus goes back on the pitch.


The focus should always be on the pitch - that is what I don't get about the railing against Kroenke.
I'd understand if he was investing nothing in the team, or every little, but that is just not the case.


Because better players = better performances.

We need more cash to be in that conversation.



Nope.
Better players, better coaching, better organisation, better concentration, better decision making... = better performances.
We don't need more cash to be in that conversation.
We already spend a lot of money.

To shred your argument I will give one example - there are many.

Sissoko £30m
Xhaka £40m

Also, you have still have not explained why you think it's so important for Kroenke to move money from a different bank account into the club. Seemed to be a major part of your argument, but it's since disappeared after I educated you on the club accounts.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:44 am

Kroenke so bad now even Kos wants out. ;)
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Angelito » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:21 pm

StLGooner wrote:Kroenke so bad now even Kos wants out. ;)


I think Kroenke spent all of our transfer kitty in hiring some people to shill for him at GW.

At least, I hope so.

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby LMAO » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:51 pm

EliteKiller wrote:Fascinating to watch the likes of Zeddie and LMAO create ever more fictitious scenarios about Oligarchs giving free money to benefit people they don't like, creating mythical valuations based on there own personal fantasies .... Why do they do that?

We have all the real evidence of what actual happened right in front of us ... a billionaire has bought us for a billion pounds, we are now worth 2.3 billion, that's probably why he's a billionaire and Zeddie and LMAO are fantasists on an internet football site ...

Do the pair of you think you are going to convince even one person that you know better than Kroenke? better than Usmanov? better than all their combined financial expertise. That you can tell massively successful investors how they should have spent their money because you know better? Seriously that's your now your narrative?

It's done, you can cry all you like but you won't change one share purchase, one player sale, one contract signed, or one useless manager fired. It's all history rewrite it as much as you want with ifs, but, whats and maybes ... the truth is you ain't changing a thing.

I've attempted to explain why a multi-billionaire invested the way he did to make yet another billion profit ... you don't understand it .... so let's just move on and look forward to the new season.


First bold:
Here we go with that wonderful reading comprehension you're known for. Please show me where I said it was free money. And as for mythical valuation, are you aware that's largely what financial projections are? Else I guess every hedge fund manager who's ever traded stocks, every PE firm that's ever bought a company to flip, and every angel investor and VC firm that's invested in startups just gave away free money without expectations for a return.

Second bold:
Now I'm convinced you're being intentionally dense. If you read my reply to Zedie, then you'd have seen where I gave a reason as to why Kroenke didn't let Usmanov in on the action. Also, please show your work for how Kroenke spending $712 million to buy Usmanov out resulted in $1 billion profit when Arsenal's valuation only increased $1.1 billion. Because in my world where math still means something, that's almost $400 million, not even halfway to three commas.

And, you haven't answered my question: Other than United, why have our peers exploded in valuation except for us? Go on. Since Kroenke is an amazing businessman, it should be easy for you to answer.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
Callum wrote:Claiming that Kroenke purchasing Arsenal was a bad deal for him is a wildly different statement than claiming Kroenke purchasing Arsenal was bad for the club.


and finally the little light-bulb comes on ... Kroenke is all about Kroenke fortunately for us Arsenal doing well and Kroenke making money are very much now linked .... but until we belonged 100% to Kroenke 28th September 2018, then there wasn't a cat in hell's chance of him putting money in. Now that any upside all goes back to him, let's see what he does ... new management, new backroom, new players

He's owned the club for less than 12 months ... some people simply don't seem to be able to grasp that fact ....


Doesn't matter how longs he's owned the club though right, cause you know, he can't ever do anything wrong since other people are in charge of taking care of everything. That's what your argument has been before. Now it seems that you are coming down from that a bit and saying time will tell in a sense. You're finally coming around! ;)
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Luzh 22 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:24 pm

I don't understand why somebody has to 100% out right own something to invest money in something. That doesn't make sense to me.


Why don't those crazy people called (funnily enough) investors realise this? EK should school them.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Luzh 22 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:40 pm

LMAO wrote:
And, you haven't answered my question: Other than United, why have our peers exploded in valuation except for us? Go on. Since Kroenke is an amazing businessman, it should be easy for you to answer.




I know he won't do the honours, so I hope you don't mind if I answer for him LMAO.


There are two types of investor. Passive and Aggressive.


Quite simply, the owners or majority shareholders of those teams believe in their product. They see that investing, or at least releasing all available funds for the strengthening of the squad, will, in the long run (through various avenues) improve their stock. This strategy particularly pays off when the product they are investing in is going through a boom. They are the aggresive investors.


Then you have the passive investor. Someone who deems the buying of stock to be correctly priced at the time of purchase, and is thus quite happy to to leave the day-to-day runnings of his investment to others, whilst waiting for his stock to grow naturally. They maximise their returns by limiting buying and selling.



Guess which we ended up with...


(I know you know all this LMAO, I just wanted to have it in "black and white" for EK to chew on.)
Last edited by Luzh 22 on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby LMAO » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:43 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:I don't understand why somebody has to 100% out right own something to invest money in something. That doesn't make sense to me.


Why don't those crazy people called (funnily enough) investors realise this? EK should school them.


Careful now before he lumps you in with me and Zedie as people who don't understand basic investing.

Even when I showed some simple math a couple pages back that Kroenke would be up more than he currently is had he let Usmanov give the club a substantial interest-free loan, EK is still arguing like Kroenke's actual course of action was the only logical decision. If Kroenke had simply swallowed his pride and worked with Usmanov instead of against him, then both Arsenal and he would be in a stronger position financially. But Kroenke is the type of person who'd rather have an entire 5" pie than share an 8" one.
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