The Kroenke Problem

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:00 pm

StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
UFGN wrote:Jayram its funny you say you're not defending Kroenke and then you go and do just that


I guess if speaking the truth means defending an individual then so be it, but not the intent.
It's not really that difficult to grasp.



You don't know the truth though, nor does anyone on this forum.


Yeah, I do. It's all in the accounts. Kroenke has spent hundreds of millions on players.
We bought players like Xhaka for £40m, when for £10m less than that Spurs picked up Sissoko. That's not Kroenke's fault. That is piss poor management by the people, led by Wenger at the time, choosing players.
We are 3rd in the PL on net spend on players over the last 5 years and our wage bill is massive.

It's not reasonable to blame Kroenke for not providing the cash - he has.



Who's in charge of management? Do they just make their own rules and do as they please? Even a boss has a boss. There also have been times when we didn't have the money to get the right player, or a better player. So we were told, but again none of us know.

Again, to blame just one thing or one person is wrong. It's a collective failure.


Wait, are you saying it's Kroenke agreed to the funds Wenger was after to sign Xhaka?
I'd be more concerned if Kroenke was picking players. That was Wenger's job to lead on when he was at the club, unless you are suggesting otherwise?
Bottom line is that the money has been available and been spent, we just spent on too many shite players.

We're in a mess because of one man - Arsene Wenger.



No, how would i know what goes on behind the scenes? Nor do you. Kroenke is the owner, he's in charge of everything, even if he puts other people in charge of certain things, and they don't perform, then its his fault for putting them in charge. If he would pay more attention to this club instead of all his other shit, then he could have seen these so called people failing like you say. You're sitting here telling me that you're so smart enough to see that Wenger was to blame for EVERYTHING, but yet our own owner couldn't? Doesn't say too much about our owner does it? You're concentrating on the money issue too much and thinking that is the end all and be all of our problems, or arguing that it wasn't, when in fact it can and probably is a little bit of everything. Quit being so narrow minded, blaming just one person or issue is what a child does.


No, I am concentrating on a combination of the money - of which a lot has been spent - and the shite players we got for that money.
Our owner has invested heavily.
Wenger decided on the players he wanted - which is one of the reasons he was proven to be a shite manager.



So just going to ignore all them other points. Got it! :Peace:

At the end of the day, we also have a shit owner. Not hard to see.


We have an owner who spends an enormous amount of money on players. What else do you want him to do?
I guess it's shit that he doesn't seem to be around much, but that really doesn't affect us.
The only other reason I disliked him for a while is because he didn't sack L'Idiot - but he rectified that.
If he continues to provide the funds, whilst not bankrupting us, he's doing his job.



Is that a serious question? what do I want him to do? Do you think this club is being run right? I want him to put people in charge that can win us trophies. Is that asking too much? Since you know , he spends all this money, wouldn't you think he'd want some return on that investment? No, huh, he just throws out cash doesn't care what it gets spent on huh? Jesus f***ing Christ. Do what a owner is supposed to do, CARE!! :BangHead:


The club off the pitch is in a very healthy position and on the football side we've been spending money - a lot of it - on players.
How is an owner going to do more to "win trophies"? How is "caring" going to win us some trophies???
He's got rid of Wenger - a great decision - and he appointed a new manager who has won trophies. We need to give that new manager a little more time. I am sure if he fails, Kroenke will do his job and sack him.

You are not really making any sense.
Kroenke spends the money. Got rid of a bad manager and appointed a new one who's had 1 season.

...and of course he wants a ROI. Are you suggesting an owner is shit if he doesn't make a the club a not for profit enterprise?

So far, you've made no real argument to support a claim that he is a "shit" owner.

Who's the best owner then? One that isn't "shit"....



Just because you care doesn't mean you win trophies, but because you care is what makes you put the right people in place to win and be successful, if he doesn't have the right people in place is it someone else's fault?



If you are under some kind of impression that the owner of every football club has no control over who he hires or who runs his club and gets the right people to do so, then I don't really know what else to say.

All you are saying is Kroenke spends money. We've moved past that bro. :dizzy:


He appointed Emery as manager and Raul Sanllehi as Director of football.
Are you saying that was "shit" - after one season?

You really have jumped off the deep end.

Now as I asked - which owner do you think is the best?




You're asking questions that have nothing to do with my responses. Who cares who is the best owner. How would I know? Has nothing to do with my point. I've gone off the deep end? you can't even f***ing comprehend my point. So don't try to get all condescending because you don't understand simple conversation.

I said nothing about Raul or Emery, why even bring them up? I can't judge them after one season under complete chaos at this club.

Point is, Stan is the owner, he is responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on at HIS club.


You're really not making any sense at all.
You've said he is shit and then also said it's the owners job to appoint the right people.

He's just appointed two new people and you say you can;t judge them, so how the f**k are you judging Kroenke then? He's providing funds and hiring people at the club into the management team. He's also providing the cash - in spades.

So what in the blazes would not make him shit then?

Jeez.



How does that not make sense to you. You can be shit and it's still your job to appoint the right people? :rofll: He can be shit at appointing the right people for fucks sake!! :BangHead:

But I'm the one not making sense? :dizzy:

I'm judging him by all the years he's been in charge, duh!!! And the past few have been getting worse, that's what I'm judging.

I'm glad Wenger is gone and he's bring in new people, maybe they will work, maybe they won't, but not fair to judge them after one season is it?


I'm not sure how old you are jay, but I think it's time to let the adults talk buddy.


You said you havn't made up your mind yet about Emery and our new Director of football. These are the two most important positions our owner can appoint.
So you haven't made up your mind about who he appointed but you've made up your mind he's shit because he doesn;t appoint the right people.
Bizarre.

As yet you've not given a single reason as to why you think Kroenke is shit - other than some garbled nonsense about who he appoints, whilst at the same time not having an issue with who he actually did appoint.

As for all the years he's been in charge, he's invested a fortune in players and is not in anyway responsible for the utter shite that Wenger spent his money on. That is all on Wenger as it was Wenger who chose the players.

We have an onwer who makes funds available, got rid of Wenger and appointed an new management team. That's good.

It's clear you are just a lemming who spouts off 'Kroenke is shit' because it's in vogue.
I suspected as much.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:05 pm

Jay, before he appointed those people I had already made up my mind he was shit. Now he appointed new people, if they do well, then maybe I'll change my mind. They haven't done well yet. Is that hard to understand? Can you at least get that simple part?


Yes, I gave you one big reason. He's shit because he isn't running our club well. Can you understand that? We are falling behind? We are out of the top 4 and not able to sign elite players. Do you understand that part?

Here lets start with a simple question

Is Stan Kroneke the owner of Arsenal football club?

Are you smart enough to understand that question?

I will then ask one question at a time, so as not to confuse you. I apologize, I thought maybe you were an adult and could have an adult conversation, now I know that you're just a child, I will speak to you accordingly. My bad bro!
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:13 pm

StLGooner wrote:Jay, before he appointed those people I had already made up my mind he was shit. Now he appointed new people, if they do well, then maybe I'll change my mind. They haven't done well yet. Is that hard to understand? Can you at least get that simple part?


Yes, I gave you one big reason. He's shit because he isn't running our club well. Can you understand that? We are falling behind? We are out of the top 4 and not able to sign elite players. Do you understand that part?

Here lets start with a simple question

Is Stan Kroneke the owner of Arsenal football club?

Are you smart enough to understand question?


He's not responsible for on field performances any more so than Deniel Levy is responsible for how well Eriksen plays on a Saturday for Spurs.
We're not going down hill because of the owner. That would only be true if he was stopping the manager and coaches doing their jobs.
Kroenke has not done any such thing.

Your argument seems to be that we didn't win trophies so Kroenke is shit, which shows you simply don't know anything about Arsenal FC, our history or the reasons for our recent decline.

Saying "he's shit because he isn't running our club well" is not a reason, it's an opinion to support a conclusion. So far you are woefully short on providing a reason to back up either your opinion or your conclusion. I already know it's because you don't actually have an argument.
Last edited by jayramfootball on Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:14 pm

So you don't know who our owner is then?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:15 pm

It's a yes or no question, shouldn't take long. I'll wait though.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:16 pm

StLGooner wrote:So you don't know who our owner is then?


Like I said, it's clear you don't have an argument.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:16 pm

Still waiting...............................

You can use google if you'd like.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:17 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:So you don't know who our owner is then?


Like I said, it's clear you don't have an argument.



That's seems to be the go to statement when one realizes he has been outsmarted and defeated.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:19 pm

StLGooner wrote:Still waiting...............................

You can use google if you'd like.



Now who's the child?

3 pages long and no actual argument other than "Kroenke is shit because he's not very good"
:rofll:
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:19 pm

I still love you Jay. Not everyone is born equal, it's ok.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:35 pm

Power n Glory wrote:Kroenke became a Board member around 2008 and was the majority shareholder from 2011.

All the crap that happened with Vieira and Cole and Henry happened before Kroenke had control. Selling off Hleb, Flamini, Ade, Toure happened before he was the main shareholder. From 2004 – 2010 were the worst years of under investment and losing key players. Look it up.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arse ... /verein/11

In those years we’d barely spend £40m on transfer fees. The signings were cheap and sparse. We had one year where we sold Ade and Toure to City but only brought in Vermaelen! We had 7 seasons of under investment before Kroenke became the main shareholder. This hasn’t all happened under his watch. The previous Board members should also be held accountable because those were our worst years in terms of investment.


Can anyone explain the above?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Dejan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:43 pm

This thread is hilarious

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:45 pm

So is this forum, and this club.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:45 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Kroenke became a Board member around 2008 and was the majority shareholder from 2011.

All the crap that happened with Vieira and Cole and Henry happened before Kroenke had control. Selling off Hleb, Flamini, Ade, Toure happened before he was the main shareholder. From 2004 – 2010 were the worst years of under investment and losing key players. Look it up.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arse ... /verein/11

In those years we’d barely spend £40m on transfer fees. The signings were cheap and sparse. We had one year where we sold Ade and Toure to City but only brought in Vermaelen! We had 7 seasons of under investment before Kroenke became the main shareholder. This hasn’t all happened under his watch. The previous Board members should also be held accountable because those were our worst years in terms of investment.


Can anyone explain the above?


That’s a separate discussion. Decision making at board level was a problem then. It’s still a problem now. This doesn’t change the fact that the people running the club are ultimately to blame for where the club is at today. Kroenke has been with us for about 12 years, 9 of which he was majority owner. He’s a billionaire and has been the majority owner for nearly a decade but yet we don’t seem to be doing well under his watch. In fact it seems we’re doing worse. Kroenke could have disassociated himself from the traditional way of thinking if he wished but chose not to. No one else to blame but himself for his own wrongdoings.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:28 pm

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Kroenke became a Board member around 2008 and was the majority shareholder from 2011.

All the crap that happened with Vieira and Cole and Henry happened before Kroenke had control. Selling off Hleb, Flamini, Ade, Toure happened before he was the main shareholder. From 2004 – 2010 were the worst years of under investment and losing key players. Look it up.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arse ... /verein/11

In those years we’d barely spend £40m on transfer fees. The signings were cheap and sparse. We had one year where we sold Ade and Toure to City but only brought in Vermaelen! We had 7 seasons of under investment before Kroenke became the main shareholder. This hasn’t all happened under his watch. The previous Board members should also be held accountable because those were our worst years in terms of investment.


Can anyone explain the above?


That’s a separate discussion. Decision making at board level was a problem then. It’s still a problem now. This doesn’t change the fact that the people running the club are ultimately to blame for where the club is at today. Kroenke has been with us for about 12 years, 9 of which he was majority owner. He’s a billionaire and has been the majority owner for nearly a decade but yet we don’t seem to be doing well under his watch. In fact it seems we’re doing worse. Kroenke could have disassociated himself from the traditional way of thinking if he wished but chose not to. No one else to blame but himself for his own wrongdoings.


How is now a separate discussion when you've argued the following.....

I’ve not said anywhere in my post that Wenger is absolved of all blame but maybe if he was not so financially strapped during a difficult period, maybe he would have handled things differently and better. I pointed out Wenger’s successes in my post for a reason because it highlights what he’s capable of. You’ve mentioned the duds Wenger has signed but you ignore the brilliant players he’s given us. You talk about fitness issues but you ignore how Wenger changed the diet and fitness of players who looked hopeless in this regard. You say Wenger sold players at the wrong time but you ignore the point that maybe he didn’t have a choice. Despite how Wenger left the club, I know one thing and it’s that my respect for the man and what he has given this club knows no bounds.


And should have better supported a manager (who delivered the invincibles, delivered CL football for 2 decades, has won many domestic trophies, has an attractive football philosophy, is well respected by countless players, and speaks multiple languages) during a time when shareholder financing was out of control and the stadium debt was still being paid off


As said, Stan took over in 2011 and we had 7 seasons of under investment before he arrived. Wenger was able to invest in better quality players (Ozil, Sanchez, Cech, Lacazette, Auba) and not have to sell key players and had the backing of the owners to break the wage barrier to hold on to key players. We invested restructured the club around him so he had better fitness coaches and equipment to help manage the constant injuries, better negotiators to deal with contracts, you name it. But we saw the same sort of results. Stans error was not firing Wenger much sooner identifying the source of the problem.

Also, you keep missing a key point. We're in a situation where FFP rules restrict us from increasing the wage bill by a massive amount, raking up debt and spending money that's not generated from club revenue. I've yet to see anyone delve into that and explain how we get around it.
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