The Kroenke Problem

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Re: 2019 Summer Transfer Window

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:37 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


There's no worship here, fella. Just facts. Unfortunately for you, those facts are not on your side.
But if you'd like to believe that accepting reality is a form of worship, have at it. :think:


The picture you’re painting is making it out to seem that all the money we’ve been able to spend so far is coming directly from Kroenke’s pockets when in actuality all he’s doing is taking credit off the hard work of others. It’s like buying a successful franchise and bragging to your friends soon afterwards that you’re the reason the franchise is so popular.

jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


The main reason we are here is because of David Dein, PHW and the old Board members along with Arsene Wenger.


It’s interesting that you did not mention Kroenke in that list. They are all to blame including Kroenke


How so?
He's continually invested huge amounts of cash into the squad. Would you like him to select the players we buy and do the coaching? Maybe he should have been playing CB?


Has been answered already
Leno
(Martinez/Macey)
Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
Xhaka(c)
(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
Pepe -------------------- Auba
(ESR/Mkhi) -------------------- (Nelson/Saka)
Lacazette
(Martinelli/Nketiah)


Last Updated: 9/19/19
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:00 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


The main reason we are here is because of David Dein, PHW and the old Board members along with Arsene Wenger.


It’s interesting that you did not mention Kroenke in that list. They are all to blame including Kroenke


I didn't mention Kroenke because we've all discussed and addressed his failings as an owner for ages. It's a severe case of tunnel vision when it comes to looking at the overall picture and seeing what we have just been through.

Dein introduced Kroenke, Dein also introduced Usmanov and that sparked a civil war within the ownership ranks. We had old Board members (PHW) with outdated methods with no idea how rapidly sports had evolved financially over the years. They were over reliant on a manager that had run out of ideas to keep us afloat on and off the pitch. I mean, after firing Dein, in what world did they think it was a good idea to allow Wenger to do Dein's old job as well as manage the team? If that lot were still in charge, we'd probably be worst off right now. They would never have fired Wenger or they would have offered him the job that Raul is now doing which would have been a disaster. They thought the sun shined out of Wenger's backside and couldn't see his limitations.

Then of course we have David Dein. He had the vision for outside investment but he also introduced the chaos in the first place by selling his shares to Kroenke and Usmanov and convincing both to invest in Arsenal. First Kroenke, then Usmanov after he fell out with Kroenke. Now on the one hand, if he had got his way in the first place, we'd have still introduced Kroenke into the fold, the guy you say is the main reason we are in the EL. On the other, if Usmanov were to have taken charge with Dein by his side, both were in full support of Wenger as manager. As seen with Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool, over the years, regardless of how much money gets thrown around, you'll still end up playing EL football or worse if you have a doughnut in charge of your team. I can't see Dein giving Wenger the sack any sooner.

We are here because of poor planning and vision. The guys that originally proposed the Emirates stadium move dropped the ball, sold up and left us with what we see today. They should be called out for it because of the years of backroom politics and fighting set us back.
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Re: 2019 Summer Transfer Window

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:01 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


There's no worship here, fella. Just facts. Unfortunately for you, those facts are not on your side.
But if you'd like to believe that accepting reality is a form of worship, have at it. :think:


The picture you’re painting is making it out to seem that all the money we’ve been able to spend so far is coming directly from Kroenke’s pockets when in actuality all he’s doing is taking credit off the hard work of others. It’s like buying a successful franchise and bragging to your friends soon afterwards that you’re the reason the franchise is so popular.

jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


The main reason we are here is because of David Dein, PHW and the old Board members along with Arsene Wenger.


It’s interesting that you did not mention Kroenke in that list. They are all to blame including Kroenke


How so?
He's continually invested huge amounts of cash into the squad. Would you like him to select the players we buy and do the coaching? Maybe he should have been playing CB?


Has been answered already


No, it hasn't.
Lots of whining and a blatant disregard of the facts, but no answers.

As for the investing in the team - it's all Kroenke's money. Every penny of it.
We've got our Arsenal back
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:56 am

It's a new dawn guys, massive monologues rehashing the same arguments? aren't we past that?

Could Kroenke have done more in the past, sure he could. Is Kroenke now providing the management the tools to get the job done, I'm pretty sure that he is.

As a millionaire investor, not a die-hard fan, he's putting his businesses first, if you can't accept that then fair enough. After all we are fans first we don't have to worry about the millions.

With the management changes, the squad, the transfers, the wages spend that he's allowing to happen it's harsh to now maintain that "Kroenke is holding us back" ... pretty sure he's done his bit, now it's up to his employees to do theirs.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:28 am

Power n Glory wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


The main reason we are here is because of David Dein, PHW and the old Board members along with Arsene Wenger.


It’s interesting that you did not mention Kroenke in that list. They are all to blame including Kroenke


I didn't mention Kroenke because we've all discussed and addressed his failings as an owner for ages. It's a severe case of tunnel vision when it comes to looking at the overall picture and seeing what we have just been through.

Dein introduced Kroenke, Dein also introduced Usmanov and that sparked a civil war within the ownership ranks. We had old Board members (PHW) with outdated methods with no idea how rapidly sports had evolved financially over the years. They were over reliant on a manager that had run out of ideas to keep us afloat on and off the pitch. I mean, after firing Dein, in what world did they think it was a good idea to allow Wenger to do Dein's old job as well as manage the team? If that lot were still in charge, we'd probably be worst off right now. They would never have fired Wenger or they would have offered him the job that Raul is now doing which would have been a disaster. They thought the sun shined out of Wenger's backside and couldn't see his limitations.

Then of course we have David Dein. He had the vision for outside investment but he also introduced the chaos in the first place by selling his shares to Kroenke and Usmanov and convincing both to invest in Arsenal. First Kroenke, then Usmanov after he fell out with Kroenke. Now on the one hand, if he had got his way in the first place, we'd have still introduced Kroenke into the fold, the guy you say is the main reason we are in the EL. On the other, if Usmanov were to have taken charge with Dein by his side, both were in full support of Wenger as manager. As seen with Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool, over the years, regardless of how much money gets thrown around, you'll still end up playing EL football or worse if you have a doughnut in charge of your team. I can't see Dein giving Wenger the sack any sooner.

We are here because of poor planning and vision. The guys that originally proposed the Emirates stadium move dropped the ball, sold up and left us with what we see today. They should be called out for it because of the years of backroom politics and fighting set us back.


Some of the arguments in here could have fooled me.

Also, fwiw, I’m quite aware of the failings of the people you’ve mentioned.

jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


There's no worship here, fella. Just facts. Unfortunately for you, those facts are not on your side.
But if you'd like to believe that accepting reality is a form of worship, have at it. :think:


The picture you’re painting is making it out to seem that all the money we’ve been able to spend so far is coming directly from Kroenke’s pockets when in actuality all he’s doing is taking credit off the hard work of others. It’s like buying a successful franchise and bragging to your friends soon afterwards that you’re the reason the franchise is so popular.

jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football


The main reason we are here is because of David Dein, PHW and the old Board members along with Arsene Wenger.


It’s interesting that you did not mention Kroenke in that list. They are all to blame including Kroenke


How so?
He's continually invested huge amounts of cash into the squad. Would you like him to select the players we buy and do the coaching? Maybe he should have been playing CB?


Has been answered already


No, it hasn't.
Lots of whining and a blatant disregard of the facts, but no answers.

As for the investing in the team - it's all Kroenke's money. Every penny of it.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32556&start=165#p1725992

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&p=1723810&hilit=CrimsonGunner11#p1723810

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&p=1727170&hilit=CrimsonGunner11#p1727170

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&p=1727099&hilit=CrimsonGunner11#p1727099

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32556&start=165#p1725925

And quite a few more like these
Leno
(Martinez/Macey)
Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
Xhaka(c)
(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
Pepe -------------------- Auba
(ESR/Mkhi) -------------------- (Nelson/Saka)
Lacazette
(Martinelli/Nketiah)


Last Updated: 9/19/19
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Re: 2019 Summer Transfer Window

Postby theHotHead » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:35 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football

Firstly nobody is worshipping Kroenke, I don't know a single person that likes the guy or wants him to stay as owner of the club.

Secondly please continue to ignore all of the facts that have been posted repeatedly. They have crushed your s and other opinions repeatedly but, continue anyway, in your deluded world far removed from reality.

So Kroenke not firing Wenger earlier was a fault on his part - but it is not the reason we are where we are in the EL. If you want to be pedantic lets add:

Emery - for f***ing up the end of our season last season.

The coaches - for not being able to improve the obvious problems with individual players and the team as a whole.

The players - for being unable to maintain a level of performance.

Kroenke should, using your pathetic reasoning, sack Emery for his failure, sack the coaches for their failure and sack the players for their failures too!!
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:09 am

theHotHead wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Let's try an analogy more at the level of this debate ....

Imagine Arsenal are a second hand car - an absolute classic but in need of renovation ....

The car has two owners who can't agree to work together ... for simplicity let's say they both own 50% (you can do the same math on 66/33)

Both want to buy each other out ... they have 3,000 in the joint bank account ...

The car is worth 18,000 ... repairs will cost 3,000 ... once the car is fixed it will be worth 27,000 ...

Both want either 10,000 for their shares now, or 15,000 for their shares after repairs are completed:

1) Do the owners pay for all the repairs emptying the bank before one makes his 15,000 purchase - total cost to him 15,000

2) Does one of the owners buy the other out for 10,000 and then complete the repairs using the 3,000 in the bank - total cost to him 10,000

Can you grasp that? it's a pretty bloody basic takeover scenario ... you want the cash in the bank not the fully finished product ... making what you buy better is how you make your investment pay off ... not fixing it first then making your investment

This clear as a bell is exactly what Kroenke has done, that's why he's made 900m profit on Arsenal and his critics have worn out their keyboards trying to make him look bad ... guess that's just the way it goes


The problem with this is that it’s seeing things from Kroenke’s perspective only. It’s been a path that has only served him so far. Not to diminish the good work that's being done now under him, but we, as fans, should value the club first and foremost over the interests of the owner, not the other way round. How many unsatisfying seasons have we had to endure to get to a point like Liverpool, Chelsea, United, or City where we can say we can win the league or the CL (and, tbh, we still aren’t even there yet)? The fact that many fans most likely would have done things differently than Kroenke were they in his position all these years says it all, imo. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


. I’m glad we’re showing signs of ambition worthy of this club and hope it continues but we could have been at this point much sooner had the club’s best interests been at heart.


WTF are you talking about?

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

Over that time we broke our transfer record 4 times.
This year is not even the highest level of investment.

Kroenke just continued spending the money we need, just as he has in the past.

It continues to amaze me that facts don't seem to matter in the quest to paint to Kroeke as a bogeyman.
You should be thanking your lucky stars that he continues to pour money into the club despite the horrendous waste of money he has had to put up with from his staff.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30558&start=1380#p1732554


Way to go. You managed to ignore the facts again and continue with your dogma.
Have fun in your alternative reality, though it sounds like a pretty crappy place.


I’m not the one worshipping a man who is partly the reason, arguably the main reason, why we’re playing EL football

Firstly nobody is worshipping Kroenke, I don't know a single person that likes the guy or wants him to stay as owner of the club.

Secondly please continue to ignore all of the facts that have been posted repeatedly. They have crushed your s and other opinions repeatedly but, continue anyway, in your deluded world far removed from reality.

So Kroenke not firing Wenger earlier was a fault on his part - but it is not the reason we are where we are in the EL. If you want to be pedantic lets add:

Emery - for f***ing up the end of our season last season.

The coaches - for not being able to improve the obvious problems with individual players and the team as a whole.

The players - for being unable to maintain a level of performance.

Kroenke should, using your pathetic reasoning, sack Emery for his failure, sack the coaches for their failure and sack the players for their failures too!!


Firstly, you’ve taken my point and twisted it into something extreme

Secondly, opinions not blaming Kroenke for where we are is in fact worshipping the man since no reasonable critic would believe this.

Thirdly, anyone worshipping a man who has done very little up till recently to deserve such worship are the ones ignoring facts.

Fourthly, this is Kroenke’s thread. Criticism has been delivered to those who deserve it in the appropriate threads.


As EK says, the same arguments are just being rehashed over again. don’t know why I even came back here to post when I said wouldn’t
Leno
(Martinez/Macey)
Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
Xhaka(c)
(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
Pepe -------------------- Auba
(ESR/Mkhi) -------------------- (Nelson/Saka)
Lacazette
(Martinelli/Nketiah)


Last Updated: 9/19/19
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby UFGN » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:15 am

If he keeps on sanctioning summers like the one we just had he can stay as long as he wants.

A chairman's only job worth worrying about is signing cheques.

Keep signing them Stan, and I'll get your name tattooed on my face
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:30 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:

Thirdly, anyone worshipping a man who has done very little up till recently to deserve such worship are the ones ignoring facts.


I see reality is still something you choose to ignore.
Once again, in case you missed it:

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

The figures tell you - or should - that Kroenke is just carrying on spending as he has in the past. Some seasons he'll spend more, some less. We're averaging about £45m net spend a season, which is a lot.

You tried to ignore facts by saying Kroenke hasn't spent enough money - you were wrong
You tried to rescue your error by pretending that Kroenke is finally spending enough money - wrong, this year is actually less than 4 summers ago.

The facts are not going away.
We've got our Arsenal back
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:20 am

jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:

Thirdly, anyone worshipping a man who has done very little up till recently to deserve such worship are the ones ignoring facts.


I see reality is still something you choose to ignore.
Once again, in case you missed it:

Net Spend
19/20 £91m
18/19 £65m
17/18 £-3m
16/17 £92m
15/16 £21m
14/15 £77m
13/14 £34m

Gross Spend
19/20 £137m
18/19 £72m
17/18 £137m
16/17 £102m
15/16 £24m
14/15 £107m
13/14 £44m

The figures tell you - or should - that Kroenke is just carrying on spending as he has in the past. Some seasons he'll spend more, some less. We're averaging about £45m net spend a season, which is a lot.

You tried to ignore facts by saying Kroenke hasn't spent enough money - you were wrong
You tried to rescue your error by pretending that Kroenke is finally spending enough money - wrong, this year is actually less than 4 summers ago.

The facts are not going away.


Image
Leno
(Martinez/Macey)
Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
Xhaka(c)
(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
Pepe -------------------- Auba
(ESR/Mkhi) -------------------- (Nelson/Saka)
Lacazette
(Martinelli/Nketiah)


Last Updated: 9/19/19
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Sims » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/footbal ... ssion=true

Josh Kroenke hints that they put money in the club to spend this summer
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby aniym » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:26 pm

Sims wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/49401513?__twitter_impression=true

Josh Kroenke hints that they put money in the club to spend this summer


Big props to Kroenke Jr if they continue to follow through. He was actually at Baku for the game, and clearly some major changes happened this summer.

What's more significant than the big deals for Saliba and Pepe is the pragmatism of our business. Iwobi would never have been sold under the old regime, and a loan deal for Ceballos would have been unthinkable, as we'd just have bought a middling CM and signed him to a 5yr deal.

Luiz was another smart buy considering the Koscielny situation, which the club knew about before he went public.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:18 pm

St. Louis based Rams fans won a lawsuit today stating that Kroenke and his group misled the supporters here in believing they wanted to stay in St. Louis. Which just further shows the proof that they lied and that Stan is a complete w***er of a person.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:09 pm

StLGooner wrote:St. Louis based Rams fans won a lawsuit today stating that Kroenke and his group misled the supporters here in believing they wanted to stay in St. Louis. Which just further shows the proof that they lied and that Stan is a complete w***er of a person.


............... awkward, but erghh, we love Kroenke now. :lol:
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Ach » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:19 pm

Saying all the right stuff but needs to back it up. We won't catch city for a few years but with good management at board level, we will catch them.

The kroenkes are starting to impress.

Might even follow the LA rams as I have gotmin to NFL last couple of years.
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