The Kroenke Problem

[CrimsonGunner11]

Correct me if I'm wrong but FFP does not prevent owners from spending their money on stadiums. We've also seen owners forgive debts owed to them by their clubs before. Their situation does look bleak but like I've said smart management, and you could also say luck, could quickly turn their fortunes around. We've seen some crazy things wrt money management by PL clubs before, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we'll see more crazy ideas again.

True if someone drops in another 2 billion, or rights-off 2 billion then just like City they will become a super force ... not much anyone can do about that ... still I reckon that's about as likely as Kroenke giving us 2 billion .... so I'm not to worried ...

Doesn’t have to be one person, it can be a group effort. Also, a payment for an investment doesn’t have to be one-off, it can be in installments. Debts too can be restructured and paid over a more reasonable period. There are so many strategies clubs can use to circumnavigate restrictions. All it takes is a group of committed, smart, and rich people to pull these type of things off and we know Chelsea has a couple of these attributes already. They’re certainly not dead and buried yet mainly because FFP has been a major disappointment so far.

[EliteKiller]

Doesn’t have to be one person, it can be a group effort. Also, a payment for an investment doesn’t have to be one-off, it can be in installments. Debts too can be restructured and paid over a more reasonable period. There are so many strategies clubs can use to circumnavigate restrictions. All it takes is a group of committed, smart, and rich people to pull these type of things off and we know Chelsea has a couple of these attributes already. They’re certainly not dead and buried yet mainly because FFP has been a major disappointment so far.

You're not wrong ... but all thing considered I'd still today much rather be in our position than theirs ... even accepting their recent history

[CrimsonGunner11]

Doesn’t have to be one person, it can be a group effort. Also, a payment for an investment doesn’t have to be one-off, it can be in installments. Debts too can be restructured and paid over a more reasonable period. There are so many strategies clubs can use to circumnavigate restrictions. All it takes is a group of committed, smart, and rich people to pull these type of things off and we know Chelsea has a couple of these attributes already. They’re certainly not dead and buried yet mainly because FFP has been a major disappointment so far.

You're not wrong ... but all thing considered I'd still today much rather be in our position than theirs ... even accepting their recent history

Well, I’m going to hope they don’t recover from the damage FFP has brought them because all things considered they still have CL football and a trophy to their name that we may never get in our lifetime. For this reason they’re, atm, in a better position than we are imo but I can certainly see how that can change moving forward. But if they do find a way out of their situation then their methods would have been justified and we’ll be the ones stuck with eggs on our faces.

And fwiw, even if they don’t recover, there’s still City who are the poster child of the model and look like they’ll escape FFP pretty much unscathed so the overall point will be crushed regardless. There looks to be no justifying the decisions those running Arsenal Football Club have made regarding this matter for the years in question.

[theHotHead]

Zedie, so you are basing your latest argument on something that UEFA have not made any announcement about ??? Did UEFA say they would be making any changes ?

Since UEFA introduced FFP rules in 2010, they made changes to it in 2012, 2015 and 2018, to reflect changes in the environment. They don't make changes yearly. So why you think there will be some 2019 change that magically makes it align with the FA's FFP rules are beyond a mystery. The 2018 rules are displayed on their site because they are present and current, there are no public plans I can see on their website or reported elsewhere to change them, so for 2019 the rules will be the same as they were in 2018. All of your hubbub and bluster is for nothing.

Complex conversations ??? You must be having a freekin laugh mate ! I read your link and killed it with my BBC link. You have trouble reading, you don't understand UEFA FFP rules yet you call people idiots and ignorant and then you invent some story that there will be 2019 UEFA FFP rules when there has been no indication of the sort, from UEFA. I'm tired of making you look silly in this discussion, but I am happy to oblige if you continue. Admitting you got FFP wrong would be a good start, like I said, don't be wrong and strong, its the only way back for you.

UEFA haven't updated their website but the rules are in place. This is really embarrassing for you tbf.

Google STCC and educate yourself for your own sake.

This is just getting silly, now I am just toying with you, like a cat toys with a helpless defenceless mouse.

Firstly you should take your own advice and Google STCC then you might understand what you are talking about. STCC is a Premier League directive, as I understand it. It has f**k all to do with UEFA. English teams must adhere to STCC but they must also adhere to UEFA's FFP rules if they want to play in UEFA club competitions.

Are you following so far Zedie???

Right. So given that the latest STCC rules give more freedom to spend than UEFA's current FFP rules, which rule, in your opinion, is more important? The one that allows more free spending but you can only play games in the Premier League or the one that allows less free spending but you will be able to play games in both the Premier League and in UEFA competitions if you qualify?

Zedie, do you think STCC - and UEFA's FFP are the same thing? You realise they are different and one is now far more tight that the other, right?

The FAs rules are more stringent than UEFA and they recently relaxed the FA rules to fall in line with europe

You've got the directions mixed up.

It's absolutely fascinating watching you make a complete tit of yourself on here tbh.

I dont think I've ever seen someone apparently read this much while getting so much wrong loool

Prove it!

I posted a link to a BBC article about FFP, it was the link I said trounced your link that you thought was some form of Kryptonite!

Here is the link again:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29361839

Point 9 of the link clearly states

The Premier League has brought in its own form of financial regulation which is not as stringent as Uefa's FFP.

Article dated March 2019.



You say I got the rules mixed up??? Zedie, this is a beating the likes of which I am not sure I have seen on Goonersworld before, I have handed out some beatings before on here but this is like the gift that keeps on giving.

[theHotHead]

And for those that don't know, prior to the change to the FA FFP rules:

A club could lose up to £105m over 3 seasons.

Compare that to UEFA FFP that allowed £35m over 3 years.

Now the UEFA rule is £25.5m and as Zedie is at pains to say, the FA have relaxed their rules on STCC - which of course makes it even easier to comply with than UEFA's ruling.

Either I misread all of this or Zedie has a monumental f***ing problem in his brain because, this is far too easy.

[Zedie]

Zedie, so you are basing your latest argument on something that UEFA have not made any announcement about ??? Did UEFA say they would be making any changes ?

Since UEFA introduced FFP rules in 2010, they made changes to it in 2012, 2015 and 2018, to reflect changes in the environment. They don't make changes yearly. So why you think there will be some 2019 change that magically makes it align with the FA's FFP rules are beyond a mystery. The 2018 rules are displayed on their site because they are present and current, there are no public plans I can see on their website or reported elsewhere to change them, so for 2019 the rules will be the same as they were in 2018. All of your hubbub and bluster is for nothing.

Complex conversations ??? You must be having a freekin laugh mate ! I read your link and killed it with my BBC link. You have trouble reading, you don't understand UEFA FFP rules yet you call people idiots and ignorant and then you invent some story that there will be 2019 UEFA FFP rules when there has been no indication of the sort, from UEFA. I'm tired of making you look silly in this discussion, but I am happy to oblige if you continue. Admitting you got FFP wrong would be a good start, like I said, don't be wrong and strong, its the only way back for you.

UEFA haven't updated their website but the rules are in place. This is really embarrassing for you tbf.

Google STCC and educate yourself for your own sake.

This is just getting silly, now I am just toying with you, like a cat toys with a helpless defenceless mouse.

Firstly you should take your own advice and Google STCC then you might understand what you are talking about. STCC is a Premier League directive, as I understand it. It has f**k all to do with UEFA. English teams must adhere to STCC but they must also adhere to UEFA's FFP rules if they want to play in UEFA club competitions.

Are you following so far Zedie???

Right. So given that the latest STCC rules give more freedom to spend than UEFA's current FFP rules, which rule, in your opinion, is more important? The one that allows more free spending but you can only play games in the Premier League or the one that allows less free spending but you will be able to play games in both the Premier League and in UEFA competitions if you qualify?

Zedie, do you think STCC - and UEFA's FFP are the same thing? You realise they are different and one is now far more tight that the other, right?

The FAs rules are more stringent than UEFA and they recently relaxed the FA rules to fall in line with europe

You've got the directions mixed up.

It's absolutely fascinating watching you make a complete tit of yourself on here tbh.

I dont think I've ever seen someone apparently read this much while getting so much wrong loool

Prove it!

I posted a link to a BBC article about FFP, it was the link I said trounced your link that you thought was some form of Kryptonite!

Here is the link again:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29361839

Point 9 of the link clearly states

The Premier League has brought in its own form of financial regulation which is not as stringent as Uefa's FFP.

Article dated March 2019.



You say I got the rules mixed up??? Zedie, this is a beating the likes of which I am not sure I have seen on Goonersworld before, I have handed out some beatings before on here but this is like the gift that keeps on giving.

This link says 8th March. It doesnt say anything about 2019.

It refers to city having a reduced squad to 21 men in the CL 'this season' which happened in 2014.

The final nail in your coffin:

Your own article refers to liverpool being investigated for breaching ffp rules in the season the article was written:

8. And why are Liverpool being investigated?

Because they posted losses of £49.8m in 2012-13 and £41m in 2011-12 and are back in European competition this season having qualified for the Champions League.

The Reds, along with Monaco, Inter Milan, Roma, Besiktas, FC Krasnodar and Sporting Lisbon - none of whom took part in European competition in 2013-14 - have submitted their accounts to the CFCB but have been told to submit further information on their finances in October and November.

This happened in 2014-15.

Your article was written in 2014

Your article has pictures of yaya Toure and Steven Gerrard loooooooool


Elites was a mistake because he genuinely was posting up source material from the main UEFA website that was a year out of date.

But you. You were so hungry to prove me wrong you've actually just destroyed yourself on here. You really thought you had a point and were celebrating lool

I'm embarrassed for you.

[theHotHead]

Quick question: had the club been bought by Abramovich instead of Kroenke, would the last ten years have gone differently?

Of course not. But the contempt at which we hold Chelsea to would be aimed at us instead. And there is something far more satisfying about how we won our titles to how Chelsea won there's.

[Power n Glory]

And for those that don't know, prior to the change to the FA FFP rules:

A club could lose up to £105m over 3 seasons.

Compare that to UEFA FFP that allowed £35m over 3 years.

Now the UEFA rule is £25.5m and as Zedie is at pains to say, the FA have relaxed their rules on STCC - which of course makes it even easier to comply with than UEFA's ruling.

Either I misread all of this or Zedie has a monumental f***ing problem in his brain because, this is far too easy.

I gave up after reading the UEFA's website was out of date and reflected the 2018 rules, not the 2019 rules. Really poor. That still means we've been under and complying with FFP rules up until 2018!

[theHotHead]

I'm genuinely baffled by this group that's defending kronke tooth and nail.

That's because you're to stupid to understand how high level business functions - but that's OK not everyone gets it.

Back to insults I see. Wont rise to it. It's going to be fun watching you explain high level business this season.

Preview:

Emery has to go, it's all his fault he couldn't train willock to replace Ramsey etc.

But it had been proven over a dozen pages you don't have a bloody clue. You argue using incorrect facts and data, then you dig your heels in then you try to convince yourself (cos you sure ain't convincing us) that your point is in fact a victory in the discussion

You get things the wrong way round then call people idiots and ignorant

You have taken an almighty beating here Zedie. Then you resort to sarcasm but you are not smart enough to carry it off, so it just looks like childish ramblings.

And you contradict yourself. Jayram argued Kroenke would need to spend £60m per season to match City's spending, you chimed in that nobody asked him to match City's spending, most likely am inference to City's "perceived" level of spending being so high. Then in the same post you claim the £45m that West Ham just spent on a player was not a "sizeable" amount. Well what is it, either £60m per season is a sizeable amount or it is not. The £15m difference is certainly not big enough a difference for them to be classed as different levels.

[Zedie]

Mate, you've posted a bbc article from 2014/15 season as the basis to your argument.

Elite is posting links to the UEFA rules 2018 for days now and stopped because he was man enough to know he was wrong.

PnG is apparently confused by it all.

The mere fact you haven't come back to defend your article is because you know your article is hella old.

If you lot arent man enough to admit when you've been exposed, that's ok. You know and I know you're wrong and so does anyone reading your out of date sources.

Anything you guys say now is just adding to your own embarrassment until you can actually find an up to date source that backs your regressive views.

[theHotHead]

Zedie, so you are basing your latest argument on something that UEFA have not made any announcement about ??? Did UEFA say they would be making any changes ?

Since UEFA introduced FFP rules in 2010, they made changes to it in 2012, 2015 and 2018, to reflect changes in the environment. They don't make changes yearly. So why you think there will be some 2019 change that magically makes it align with the FA's FFP rules are beyond a mystery. The 2018 rules are displayed on their site because they are present and current, there are no public plans I can see on their website or reported elsewhere to change them, so for 2019 the rules will be the same as they were in 2018. All of your hubbub and bluster is for nothing.

Complex conversations ??? You must be having a freekin laugh mate ! I read your link and killed it with my BBC link. You have trouble reading, you don't understand UEFA FFP rules yet you call people idiots and ignorant and then you invent some story that there will be 2019 UEFA FFP rules when there has been no indication of the sort, from UEFA. I'm tired of making you look silly in this discussion, but I am happy to oblige if you continue. Admitting you got FFP wrong would be a good start, like I said, don't be wrong and strong, its the only way back for you.

UEFA haven't updated their website but the rules are in place. This is really embarrassing for you tbf.

Google STCC and educate yourself for your own sake.

This is just getting silly, now I am just toying with you, like a cat toys with a helpless defenceless mouse.

Firstly you should take your own advice and Google STCC then you might understand what you are talking about. STCC is a Premier League directive, as I understand it. It has f**k all to do with UEFA. English teams must adhere to STCC but they must also adhere to UEFA's FFP rules if they want to play in UEFA club competitions.

Are you following so far Zedie???

Right. So given that the latest STCC rules give more freedom to spend than UEFA's current FFP rules, which rule, in your opinion, is more important? The one that allows more free spending but you can only play games in the Premier League or the one that allows less free spending but you will be able to play games in both the Premier League and in UEFA competitions if you qualify?

Zedie, do you think STCC - and UEFA's FFP are the same thing? You realise they are different and one is now far more tight that the other, right?

The FAs rules are more stringent than UEFA and they recently relaxed the FA rules to fall in line with europe

You've got the directions mixed up.

It's absolutely fascinating watching you make a complete tit of yourself on here tbh.

I dont think I've ever seen someone apparently read this much while getting so much wrong loool

Prove it!

I posted a link to a BBC article about FFP, it was the link I said trounced your link that you thought was some form of Kryptonite!

Here is the link again:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29361839

Point 9 of the link clearly states

The Premier League has brought in its own form of financial regulation which is not as stringent as Uefa's FFP.

Article dated March 2019.



You say I got the rules mixed up??? Zedie, this is a beating the likes of which I am not sure I have seen on Goonersworld before, I have handed out some beatings before on here but this is like the gift that keeps on giving.

This link says 8th March. It doesnt say anything about 2019.

It refers to city having a reduced squad to 21 men in the CL 'this season' which happened in 2014.

The final nail in your coffin:

Your own article refers to liverpool being investigated for breaching ffp rules in the season the article was written:

8. And why are Liverpool being investigated?

Because they posted losses of £49.8m in 2012-13 and £41m in 2011-12 and are back in European competition this season having qualified for the Champions League.

The Reds, along with Monaco, Inter Milan, Roma, Besiktas, FC Krasnodar and Sporting Lisbon - none of whom took part in European competition in 2013-14 - have submitted their accounts to the CFCB but have been told to submit further information on their finances in October and November.

This happened in 2014-15.

Your article was written in 2014

Your article has pictures of yaya Toure and Steven Gerrard loooooooool


Elites was a mistake because he genuinely was posting up source material from the main UEFA website that was a year out of date.

But you. You were so hungry to prove me wrong you've actually just destroyed yourself on here. You really thought you had a point and were celebrating lool

I'm embarrassed for you.

Not at all. Even if the dates were wrong the figures are correct!

FA rules - £105m loss allowed over 3 seasons.
UEFA rules - £35m loss allowed over 3 seasons.

So FA rules WERE NEVER as stringent as UEFA's.

Next, current rules:

FA rules - more relaxed than previous rules.
UEFA rules - more stringent, £25.5m over 3 years.

In what language do these figures - equate to the FA rules getting parity or being more aligned with UEFA's rules like you claimed???

the murderation is very real.

[theHotHead]

You are actually boring me now Zedie, tired of giving you a beating. The date was wrong, the facts were right. Your argument flops like a bloodclart nappy. Done with you and your idiotic arguments.

[Zedie]

You are actually boring me now Zedie, tired of giving you a beating. The date was wrong, the facts were right. Your argument flops like a bloodclart nappy. Done with you and your idiotic arguments.

They were right for 2014. We are in 2019 now.

Is everything ok with you?

[EliteKiller]

Mate, you've posted a bbc article from 2014/15 season as the basis to your argument.

Elite is posting links to the UEFA rules 2018 for days now and stopped because he was man enough to know he was wrong.

PnG is apparently confused by it all.

The mere fact you haven't come back to defend your article is because you know your article is hella old.

If you lot arent man enough to admit when you've been exposed, that's ok. You know and I know you're wrong and so does anyone reading your out of date sources.

Anything you guys say now is just adding to your own embarrassment until you can actually find an up to date source that backs your regressive views.

Zeddie I stopped because you're an obsessed delusional idiot .... here is the link to UEFA's site TODAY 9th July 2019 ...

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/protecting-the-game/financial-fair-play/

You will see it says on the FFP page - Last updated: Wednesday 5 June 2019

You keep going on about a BBC article from the 8th Match 2019 .... why? Is UEFA not trustworthy yet the BBC is?

Sorry mate even in your deluded world the UEFA site of July 9th 2019 talking about UEFA rules is more reliable than a media article from three months ago ... the fact you can't grasp that is why I left you digging a deeper and deeper hole ... nobody misunderstands FFP and quite frankly it's a red herring anyway ...

This is what matters so when are you going to answer this question?

WHEN DID KROENKE TAKE FULL CONTROL OF ARSENAL?

We all know why you're refusing to answer, because admitting it's not ten years, not five years, but in fact just 12 months ago ... confirms all your arguments as the delusional rantings of a fixated bunny-boiler ....

I could explain why the full takeover matters, but hopefully you're not dumb enough to need that broken down into baby steps as well ....

[Zedie]

I cant be replying to you lot all day as I've got a full time job so unfortunately I'm not going to be able to respond in any great depth for a good few hours.