The Kroenke Problem

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby swipe right » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:37 am

Money wins the league. Period. Leicester fluke apart every team that has got to the top did it with money. Elite fella is conveniently ignoring the piles of cash City wasted on the likes of Ade, Nasir, Jo, Robinho etc before they got stability. Or the billion dollars Roman threw at Chelsea to get them to this level. Even fergie spent a shit ton on the likes of Rio back in the day. If Kroenke doesn’t spend 5-6 is our level no matter what the management.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby UFGN » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:56 am

swipe right wrote:Money wins the league. Period. Leicester fluke apart every team that has got to the top did it with money. Elite fella is conveniently ignoring the piles of cash City wasted on the likes of Ade, Nasir, Jo, Robinho etc before they got stability. Or the billion dollars Roman threw at Chelsea to get them to this level. Even fergie spent a shit ton on the likes of Rio back in the day. If Kroenke doesn’t spend 5-6 is our level no matter what the management.


Every time this club has won the league since the 1930's, it's always been against clubs with more money.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby swipe right » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:07 am

UFGN wrote:
swipe right wrote:Money wins the league. Period. Leicester fluke apart every team that has got to the top did it with money. Elite fella is conveniently ignoring the piles of cash City wasted on the likes of Ade, Nasir, Jo, Robinho etc before they got stability. Or the billion dollars Roman threw at Chelsea to get them to this level. Even fergie spent a shit ton on the likes of Rio back in the day. If Kroenke doesn’t spend 5-6 is our level no matter what the management.


Every time this club has won the league since the 1930's, it's always been against clubs with more money.

Exactly so let’s call it a day as long as Kroenke is around.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:17 am

EliteKiller wrote:Money spent on players (nett) over the last five years:

City - 565m
Utd - 495m
Arsenal - 253m
Chelsea - 204m
Dippers - 192m
Spuds - 33m

So Kronke's club has spent more than three of the clubs currently above them ...

How about the last five years salaries?

Utd - 1,134m
City - 1,091m
Chelsea - 937m
Arsenal - 922m
Dippers - 901m
Spuds - 654m

So Kronke's club has spent more than two of the clubs currently above them ...


It will be interesting to see the numbers since we left Highbury. I’m willing to bet that all bar maybe Sp*rs are above us in spending. It’s only recently that we’re seeing the fruits of being free from the shackles of the stadium debt (even though things did not turn out as planned). Prior to this we were forced to sell players like Cesc, RVP, Nasri, Sagna, etc. without batting an eye just to stay relevant. Recent years has been kind to us and those numbers have been inflated due to new rules limiting excessive spending and the hard work (i.e. prioritizing net spend) from Wenger’s early years of the stadium move. The latter allowing us to buy players like Ozil, Sanchez, Lacazette, and Aubameyang during Wenger’s later years when the stadium was all but paid off.

EliteKiller wrote:the fact we're dropping back is 90% down to miss-management, and perhaps 10% down to our Stan.

Please explain the following:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Sims wrote:Were the only club in the last 10 years in the prem to not get a single penny invested directly from the owner


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:disgust:

(especially when you consider the fine print)


Although, I do agree that a lot has to do with how the club is run, let’s not make it seem that Kroenke is only a small part of the problem. Kroenke’s role in everything that’s bad with the club is as big if not equal to his shares in the club.

EliteKiller wrote:Joe Lewis has put feck all into Spuds, but you don't hear 90% of their fans blaming him, maybe it's because they have a chairman and a manager who just get on with the job ... just maybe that's our problem, not some useless fat Yank ...


This:
swipe right wrote:Except the dippers and spuds haven’t won a toothpick yet.


+ the fact that still remains that their owner has put in more than ours, thus justifying the title of this thread
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby swipe right » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:27 am

I still remember Wenger scouting Hazard when he was at Lille. Back then he was valued at 24 mil and the club chocked. No one was into him back then. There were so many such misses. Mata switching from us to Chelsea at the last minute because they came in with a few mil more. The self sustaining policy has been the biggest penny wise pound foolish strategy ever. Had Kroenke spent even a bit of his own money this club would be worth so much more.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CynicalGooner » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:54 am



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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:19 am

EliteKiller wrote:Love this thread should be called The Kroenke Excuse ... no denying that Kroenke is not an Arab Sheik or a Russian Oligarch but then Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd don't have these either .... look at the facts

Money spent on players (nett) over the last five years:

City - 565m
Utd - 495m
Arsenal - 253m
Chelsea - 204m
Dippers - 192m
Spuds - 33m

So Kronke's club has spent more than three of the clubs currently above them ...

How about the last five years salaries?

Utd - 1,134m
City - 1,091m
Chelsea - 937m
Arsenal - 922m
Dippers - 901m
Spuds - 654m

So Kronke's club has spent more than two of the clubs currently above them ...

I'm not defending Kroenke he's an absentee owner who does nothing that helps the club, but equally the few million he takes out a year are not the 'rape and pillage' some would like to claim.

The truth is that since Stan took over we've been as well or better funded than all bar the two Manc money machines ... the fact we're dropping back is 90% down to miss-management, and perhaps 10% down to our Stan.

Joe Lewis has put feck all into Spuds, but you don't hear 90% of their fans blaming him, maybe it's because they have a chairman and a manager who just get on with the job ... just maybe that's our problem, not some useless fat Yank ...

Yup, couldn't put it better myself. Before Wenger left I said Gazidis and Kroenke are the least of our problems, we are spending money and we have a high wage bill. The manager was the biggest problem.

Now he has gone and so has Gazidis, if our spending stays at the same or a similar level Kroenke still won't be the worst of our problems.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:29 am

Crimson, Arsenal owners have never in recent modern football at least, invested money, from my knowledge, we have been self sustaining for years, so Kroenke is doing nothing abnormal.

We won doubles, we won league titles across 3 decades by not spending the most and by our owners not spending their dosh.

Liverpool have only been able to spend so much money because they have sold their best players for big bucks, its no different to what we did during the stadium move years, the only difference is Wenger became a stubborn t**t and refused to buy the 2 players we needed to be able to win the league

First we needed a keeper, then we needed a DM and he faffed about and refused to accept what every Arsenal fan and pundit were saying. We should have won at least 2 league titles since moving to the Emirates. The blame is squarely with Wenger!!!
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Luzh 22 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:41 am

In some respects I agree with people who say we need to throw money at the club to fix the problems, because that is the state we are in.

However, nobody at all can say we are no competitive for transfer fee's or wages, as seen in the many figures shown.


ARSENAL ARE UNDERACHIEVING FOR THE CURRENT LEVEL OF INVESTMENT.


And here in lies the major problem. So much dead wood and overpaid players need to be got rid of.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby PairyGrows » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:42 am

Whether or not self-sufficiency or mismanagement has got us into this mess is irrelevant. The only question worth asking is what will get us out of this mess. Unfortunately, it's quite clear that our self-sufficient model has run its course at least for now.

Why? Falling out of the Champions League means our broadcast and commercial revenues have shrunk and are unlikely to recover as long as we're in the Europa League. Matchday income is difficult to grow without raising the ticket prices, which, for obvious reasons, is out of the question. Selling players is no option either since we have no players to sell. Cutting costs isn't a viable solution either since our wage bill is bound to increase due to the scandalous mismanagement of our wage bill.

It's clear we're out of options as far as self-sufficiency is concerned. Either the new regime (Emery, Mislintat, Sanllehi, Venkatesham) works wonders on a shoestring budget, or Kroenke pulls his cheque book out and invests his own money in the club. Those are the only ways we can get back to the Champions League.

If we keep insisting on self-sufficiency, eventually we'll be forced to sell our best players and replace them with below-par players. This means that, in 10 years, we will be a regular mid-table outfit battling it out with the likes of Everton, Leicester and West Ham for positions between 6th and 12th.

That, to me, is incredibly depressing.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Luzh 22 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 am

PairyGrows wrote:Whether or not self-sufficiency or mismanagement has got us into this mess is irrelevant. The only question worth asking is what will get us out of this mess. Unfortunately, it's quite clear that our self-sufficient model has run its course at least for now.




Your whole argument rests on this opening statement, and that statement is wrong. The black and white figures show we should be competing better on the pitch, given the performance of some of the clubs that have invested less.

This cannot be argued. It is the simple facts of the matter.

Therefore, if we are competing financially (despite what we've be told in the past by the club), self sustainability is working. 15 years of farcical management of the club is what has harmed us.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:40 am

PairyGrows wrote:Whether or not self-sufficiency or mismanagement has got us into this mess is irrelevant. The only question worth asking is what will get us out of this mess. Unfortunately, it's quite clear that our self-sufficient model has run its course at least for now.

Why? Falling out of the Champions League means our broadcast and commercial revenues have shrunk and are unlikely to recover as long as we're in the Europa League. Matchday income is difficult to grow without raising the ticket prices, which, for obvious reasons, is out of the question. Selling players is no option either since we have no players to sell. Cutting costs isn't a viable solution either since our wage bill is bound to increase due to the scandalous mismanagement of our wage bill.

It's clear we're out of options as far as self-sufficiency is concerned. Either the new regime (Emery, Mislintat, Sanllehi, Venkatesham) works wonders on a shoestring budget, or Kroenke pulls his cheque book out and invests his own money in the club. Those are the only ways we can get back to the Champions League.

If we keep insisting on self-sufficiency, eventually we'll be forced to sell our best players and replace them with below-par players. This means that, in 10 years, we will be a regular mid-table outfit battling it out with the likes of Everton, Leicester and West Ham for positions between 6th and 12th.

That, to me, is incredibly depressing.


You miss two very important points ... point one we're the seventh wealthiest club in the World already, so we have been self-sufficient and very successful on an income that only Utd and City can better for several decades, and point two even with other clubs "sugar daddies" our self-sufficiency model has still managed to outspend all but those two clubs over the last ten years.

Financial doping, or chairman's cash, unless it's a bottomless pit like Man City, will eventually dry up ... look at Chelsea and Newcastle, and before them QPR, Blackburn, Sunderland, Leeds the list goes on ... financially doped for a while then utterly screwed.

If you then consider FFP and EPL salary controls, whilst I accept these can be massaged they have in practice worked pretty well ... right now every club in the EPL is pretty much self sufficient that's a huge change from 10 years ago ...

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PRIOR TO KROENKE we were by far the most profitable club in the UK, we just didn't invest in the team ... that has nothing to do with Kroenke ... since Kroenke showed up we've spent more on new players than anyone club except City and Utd.

Today we're in deep shite because firstly we didn't spend when we should have 2008-2011, when we could have bought all the best players to win titles and cups galore, and bought all the best youngsters to ensure our future. Secondly because when we did join in with splashing the cash we overpaid on transfer fees and salaries for pretty much a whole squad of non-performing players, honestly is that Kroenke's fault?

Of course once that situation became obvious, highlighted by the poisonous Wonger out years, Kroenke should have stepped in far earlier and made the change, instead he left it to late allowing the senile old fool's transfer and salary bullshit to sabotage our club probably for years to come ... now that is 100% down to Kroenke.

What Kroenke needs to do now is man up and repair the damage, that will cost City type money and if he won't do that he should step aside for someone who will. Ain't going to happen so stand by for many years of struggle ....
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:54 am

theHotHead wrote:Crimson, Arsenal owners have never in recent modern football at least, invested money, from my knowledge, we have been self sustaining for years, so Kroenke is doing nothing abnormal.

We won doubles, we won league titles across 3 decades by not spending the most and by our owners not spending their dosh.

Liverpool have only been able to spend so much money because they have sold their best players for big bucks, its no different to what we did during the stadium move years, the only difference is Wenger became a stubborn t**t and refused to buy the 2 players we needed to be able to win the league

First we needed a keeper, then we needed a DM and he faffed about and refused to accept what every Arsenal fan and pundit were saying. We should have won at least 2 league titles since moving to the Emirates. The blame is squarely with Wenger!!!


When times change you adapt to the changes. No one can tell me that we would not be in a better position than we are right now had Kroenke invested some of his money into the club. Our model is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do: I.e. keep us playing in Europe. However, we all want the same thing and recent history has shown you need to be spending at the levels of City, Chelsea, etc. to push us over the edge and achieve what every fan desires on a consistent basis. Yes you will get your Leicester stories but those occasions are very rare and you need a great deal of fortune to go your way. Heck, we even had chances in the past to achieve something miraculous but we always fell short. Same thing can be said about Liverpool and same can be said about Sp*rs. What I’m basically trying to say is that if we have the capabilities to be winning the league and CL why not take advantage of it. Pride is the only thing that has stopped/is stopping us from being one of the best clubs on the pitch
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Nejch » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:36 pm

Banners demanding the board to f*ck off need to start appearing before we delve further into the abyss. The club is on a downward trend.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Sims » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:39 pm

cant even get his cronies to hire a decent manager ffs
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