The Kroenke Problem

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Tubbs » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:53 pm

Can this thread be changed to The MAJOR Kroenke problem?.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby yadunoe » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:53 pm

theHotHead wrote:
yadunoe wrote:
LMAO wrote:
yadunoe wrote:What have city Chelsea and others spent . Fact is time and time again we cheaped out and early Emirates era we sold so many players to pay bills kroenke should pay that


Expenditures last four seasons (16/17-19/20, from transfermarkt):
Manchester City: €777.59M
Chelsea: €647.10M
Manchester United: €625.10M
Everton: €508.90M
Arsenal: €498.44M
Liverpool: €446.38M
Leicester City: €400.00M
Tottenham: €319.00M

Spent less then everton and Kroenke hires the people who scout the player

You conveniently ignored the fact that Liverpool and Spurs have spent less than us but have consistently finished above us in that time period!

But that fact kills your argument so I don't expect you to acknowledge it.

Not really I said kroneke hire the people who scout the players so it's still his fault. We generate alot of revenue ourselves so how much money did he put in from his own pocket we will never know.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:16 pm

There were times when Stan spent plenty of money, and then other times when we needed him to and he didn't open his wallet. And then there were times when we just bought shit players or paid to much for average ones. But overall it looks as if we spent a lot and in a sense we did, but we just didn't do it at the right times nor on the right players consistently enough.

I worry about what is next though and what kind of funds will be available. I fear his stadium in LA is going to keep us from spending what we need to. I think we banked on getting into the CL this season and since it appears that we aren't, then we could possibly be cashed strapped for the near future. Obviously I don't know as I don't run the finances, but those are the signs I'm seeing.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby yadunoe » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:06 am

StLGooner wrote:There were times when Stan spent plenty of money, and then other times when we needed him to and he didn't open his wallet. And then there were times when we just bought shit players or paid to much for average ones. But overall it looks as if we spent a lot and in a sense we did, but we just didn't do it at the right times nor on the right players consistently enough.

I worry about what is next though and what kind of funds will be available. I fear his stadium in LA is going to keep us from spending what we need to. I think we banked on getting into the CL this season and since it appears that we aren't, then we could possibly be cashed strapped for the near future. Obviously I don't know as I don't run the finances, but those are the signs I'm seeing.
exactly my point be never spent the requisite money when needed like we have needed a world class cdm and cb for so long and he hasnt bought if he provides the funds and they are not spent well then fire the people who didnt spend well and didnt get enough from players. We were always one or two players short of winning imo pep is nothing special he never coached a bad team into a good one he always had world class players. Klopp made average players better and won something even wenger did in his early stage. Even Mourinho did this at inter and benifica. Arteta seems like that sort of manager but he still needs the funds to spend. Also I think we could easily win Europa we have gone far in that competition and have as good a chance as anyone ,all hope is not lost
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:30 pm

yadunoe wrote:
StLGooner wrote:There were times when Stan spent plenty of money, and then other times when we needed him to and he didn't open his wallet. And then there were times when we just bought shit players or paid to much for average ones. But overall it looks as if we spent a lot and in a sense we did, but we just didn't do it at the right times nor on the right players consistently enough.

I worry about what is next though and what kind of funds will be available. I fear his stadium in LA is going to keep us from spending what we need to. I think we banked on getting into the CL this season and since it appears that we aren't, then we could possibly be cashed strapped for the near future. Obviously I don't know as I don't run the finances, but those are the signs I'm seeing.
exactly my point be never spent the requisite money when needed like we have needed a world class cdm and cb for so long and he hasnt bought if he provides the funds and they are not spent well then fire the people who didnt spend well and didnt get enough from players. We were always one or two players short of winning imo pep is nothing special he never coached a bad team into a good one he always had world class players. Klopp made average players better and won something even wenger did in his early stage. Even Mourinho did this at inter and benifica. Arteta seems like that sort of manager but he still needs the funds to spend. Also I think we could easily win Europa we have gone far in that competition and have as good a chance as anyone ,all hope is not lost

Huh????? Going back to Ozil when we apparently were able to start spending big on players:

2019/20 - £141m spent
2018/19 - £72m spent
2017/18 - £137m spent
2016/17 - £101m spent
2015/16 - £24m spent
2014/15 - £107m spent
2013/14 - £44m spent

£626m spent over 7 seasons, Average of £90m per season.

Liverpool
£9m, £164m, £156m, £72m, £113m, £136m, £52m

£702m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £100m per season.

Spurs
£161m, £0m, £109m, £75m, £64m, £43m, £110m.

£562m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £80m per season.

Chelsea
£40m, £188m, £234m, £119m, £81m, £124m, £117m

£822m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £117m per season

Man U
£192m, £74m, £178m, £166m, £140m, £175m, £69m

£994m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £142m per season

Man City
£151m, £70m, £285m, £192m, £187m, £92m, £104m

£1081m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £154m per season

Leicester City
£95m, £103m, £79m, £82m, £45m, £20m, £0.5m

£424.5m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £60m per season

What does all of the above tell us? That Man City and Man U are spending silly money, that Chelsea are spending between the top spenders and the tier below, that Liverpool spent £10m per season more than us and we in turn spent £10m per season more than Spurs and the 3 of us are the tier below the top tier. Finally is tells us that despite spending the least, Leicester have won a league title and are up there with Man City this season performance-wise.

So can we put an end to the absolute bollox that Kroenke hasn't allowed the club to spent money. £10m per season less than Liverpool have spent tells you that money is NOT the problem.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby yadunoe » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:30 am

theHotHead wrote:
yadunoe wrote:
StLGooner wrote:There were times when Stan spent plenty of money, and then other times when we needed him to and he didn't open his wallet. And then there were times when we just bought shit players or paid to much for average ones. But overall it looks as if we spent a lot and in a sense we did, but we just didn't do it at the right times nor on the right players consistently enough.

I worry about what is next though and what kind of funds will be available. I fear his stadium in LA is going to keep us from spending what we need to. I think we banked on getting into the CL this season and since it appears that we aren't, then we could possibly be cashed strapped for the near future. Obviously I don't know as I don't run the finances, but those are the signs I'm seeing.
exactly my point be never spent the requisite money when needed like we have needed a world class cdm and cb for so long and he hasnt bought if he provides the funds and they are not spent well then fire the people who didnt spend well and didnt get enough from players. We were always one or two players short of winning imo pep is nothing special he never coached a bad team into a good one he always had world class players. Klopp made average players better and won something even wenger did in his early stage. Even Mourinho did this at inter and benifica. Arteta seems like that sort of manager but he still needs the funds to spend. Also I think we could easily win Europa we have gone far in that competition and have as good a chance as anyone ,all hope is not lost

Huh????? Going back to Ozil when we apparently were able to start spending big on players:

2019/20 - £141m spent
2018/19 - £72m spent
2017/18 - £137m spent
2016/17 - £101m spent
2015/16 - £24m spent
2014/15 - £107m spent
2013/14 - £44m spent

£626m spent over 7 seasons, Average of £90m per season.

Liverpool
£9m, £164m, £156m, £72m, £113m, £136m, £52m

£702m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £100m per season.

Spurs
£161m, £0m, £109m, £75m, £64m, £43m, £110m.

£562m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £80m per season.

Chelsea
£40m, £188m, £234m, £119m, £81m, £124m, £117m

£822m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £117m per season

Man U
£192m, £74m, £178m, £166m, £140m, £175m, £69m

£994m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £142m per season

Man City
£151m, £70m, £285m, £192m, £187m, £92m, £104m

£1081m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £154m per season

Leicester City
£95m, £103m, £79m, £82m, £45m, £20m, £0.5m

£424.5m spent over 7 seasons, an Average of £60m per season

What does all of the above tell us? That Man City and Man U are spending silly money, that Chelsea are spending between the top spenders and the tier below, that Liverpool spent £10m per season more than us and we in turn spent £10m per season more than Spurs and the 3 of us are the tier below the top tier. Finally is tells us that despite spending the least, Leicester have won a league title and are up there with Man City this season performance-wise.

So can we put an end to the absolute bollox that Kroenke hasn't allowed the club to spent money. £10m per season less than Liverpool have spent tells you that money is NOT the problem.

As I have repeated he has final say at the club fire the manager club whoever the number is irrelavant we were always one or two players short and now we are prob 7-8players shorts and thats on kroenke because he hires the people who makes the decision . Liverpool have done better then us because of klopp and him being backed poch gave the spurs there no trophy success Chelsea have spent more and won more and Leicester have great team spirit and great manager amazing scouting so kudos to the owner for hiring the right players. We dont know what happens behind the scenes its seems more likley that kroneke refused to buy one or two expensive players then the manager and directors saying no we feel we have enough to win the title which coming from the owner themselves was always the goal. The season we finished 2nd behind Leicester how many players did we sign before the season?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:46 am

The problem as proven over and over isn't with the Kroenkes and the amount of money the club spends, as shown again and again we are broadly in line with the rest of the so called big six over the last ten years ...

The problem is that the Kroenke's allowed the Wenger / Gazidis axis to take our club down a dead-end on both transfer and wages strategy, to pretty much destroy our backroom and academy by micromanagement, and to create a squad of pretty boys with the backbone of a jellyfish. Since then the failing to make appointments of a high enough calibre - who the feck is Vinai Venkatesham some cheap in-house copy boy who's been over promoted? and then thinking Emery, Ljunberg, Arteta would compete with Pep, Klopp, Mourinho? ... that's division two standard.

The lack of action against Wenger and Gazidis, the terrible senior staff appointments, yup that's on the Kronkes ... but no question we've had the money we've just watched it all get pissed away.

This summer we will see four players out of contract (admittedly two are on loan to us) and another five all enter their final year ... the shitshow ain't over yet I'm afraid. You can't fix a decade of miss-management in two years, it took Liverpool almost thirty ... let's pray we do better than them
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby yadunoe » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:33 am

EliteKiller wrote:The problem as proven over and over isn't with the Kroenkes and the amount of money the club spends, as shown again and again we are broadly in line with the rest of the so called big six over the last ten years ...

The problem is that the Kroenke's allowed the Wenger / Gazidis axis to take our club down a dead-end on both transfer and wages strategy, to pretty much destroy our backroom and academy by micromanagement, and to create a squad of pretty boys with the backbone of a jellyfish. Since then the failing to make appointments of a high enough calibre - who the feck is Vinai Venkatesham some cheap in-house copy boy who's been over promoted? and then thinking Emery, Ljunberg, Arteta would compete with Pep, Klopp, Mourinho? ... that's division two standard.

The lack of action against Wenger and Gazidis, the terrible senior staff appointments, yup that's on the Kronkes ... but no question we've had the money we've just watched it all get pissed away.

This summer we will see four players out of contract (admittedly two are on loan to us) and another five all enter their final year ... the shitshow ain't over yet I'm afraid. You can't fix a decade of miss-management in two years, it took Liverpool almost thirty ... let's pray we do better than them

I agree with you but I think kroenke hasnt shown he cares simply spending the same as other top 6 isnt enough like rn we need a 200m investment maybe more hes q billionaire pull it out and get to work man city style that's what we need . I hope mbs doesnt by Newcastle and pays kroenke to gtfo and then we can be a big club again
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:21 pm

yadunoe wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:The problem as proven over and over isn't with the Kroenkes and the amount of money the club spends, as shown again and again we are broadly in line with the rest of the so called big six over the last ten years ...

The problem is that the Kroenke's allowed the Wenger / Gazidis axis to take our club down a dead-end on both transfer and wages strategy, to pretty much destroy our backroom and academy by micromanagement, and to create a squad of pretty boys with the backbone of a jellyfish. Since then the failing to make appointments of a high enough calibre - who the feck is Vinai Venkatesham some cheap in-house copy boy who's been over promoted? and then thinking Emery, Ljunberg, Arteta would compete with Pep, Klopp, Mourinho? ... that's division two standard.

The lack of action against Wenger and Gazidis, the terrible senior staff appointments, yup that's on the Kronkes ... but no question we've had the money we've just watched it all get pissed away.

This summer we will see four players out of contract (admittedly two are on loan to us) and another five all enter their final year ... the shitshow ain't over yet I'm afraid. You can't fix a decade of miss-management in two years, it took Liverpool almost thirty ... let's pray we do better than them

I agree with you but I think kroenke hasnt shown he cares simply spending the same as other top 6 isnt enough like rn we need a 200m investment maybe more hes q billionaire pull it out and get to work man city style that's what we need . I hope mbs doesnt by Newcastle and pays kroenke to gtfo and then we can be a big club again

Mate yours is a "pie in the sky" request - to just pull out £200m of his own money and spend it on players. The only people that would do that are people that do not know the value of money - like oil sheikhs. Roman Abramovich used to do that, but even he doesn't do it these days. Kroenke isn't a billionaire because he is financially stupid ! Your request does not fall into the "realistic" category.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby VCC » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:37 pm

theHotHead wrote:
yadunoe wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:The problem as proven over and over isn't with the Kroenkes and the amount of money the club spends, as shown again and again we are broadly in line with the rest of the so called big six over the last ten years ...

The problem is that the Kroenke's allowed the Wenger / Gazidis axis to take our club down a dead-end on both transfer and wages strategy, to pretty much destroy our backroom and academy by micromanagement, and to create a squad of pretty boys with the backbone of a jellyfish. Since then the failing to make appointments of a high enough calibre - who the feck is Vinai Venkatesham some cheap in-house copy boy who's been over promoted? and then thinking Emery, Ljunberg, Arteta would compete with Pep, Klopp, Mourinho? ... that's division two standard.

The lack of action against Wenger and Gazidis, the terrible senior staff appointments, yup that's on the Kronkes ... but no question we've had the money we've just watched it all get pissed away.

This summer we will see four players out of contract (admittedly two are on loan to us) and another five all enter their final year ... the shitshow ain't over yet I'm afraid. You can't fix a decade of miss-management in two years, it took Liverpool almost thirty ... let's pray we do better than them

I agree with you but I think kroenke hasnt shown he cares simply spending the same as other top 6 isnt enough like rn we need a 200m investment maybe more hes q billionaire pull it out and get to work man city style that's what we need . I hope mbs doesnt by Newcastle and pays kroenke to gtfo and then we can be a big club again

Mate yours is a "pie in the sky" request - to just pull out £200m of his own money and spend it on players. The only people that would do that are people that do not know the value of money - like oil sheikhs. Roman Abramovich used to do that, but even he doesn't do it these days. Kroenke isn't a billionaire because he is financially stupid ! Your request does not fall into the "realistic" category.

HH its realistic for a fan to spend that
There is the problem the billionaire we picked is not a fan,his motive for buying Arsenal was to extend his sport portfolio and make money, and god knows it somehow may fall into some kind of tax dodge through creative accounting?
We should have got usmanov with his dirty money but some fans and board didn't like the idea, but hey there probably isn't a billionaire out there that has not got dirty money coming in somehow.
Best investment Arsenal could make is cleaning out the coaching staff, all we have done is appoint a head coach (who identity looks much like AW so far) and change the deck chairs of the other coaching staff, we have produced nothing for years from the youth team, and before peeps start shooting that comment down, yes we have a few players with potential ! When did the club ever grow that potential last. There is the problem as you say throwing money at it helps and should plug the gaps or bring in the necessary world class acts to build around, but the clubs training program is a joke the club needs a clean out everyone is far too comfortable just bringing in a wage with no accountability or targets much like ozil has been accused
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:12 am

Yeah point taken and conceded.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:35 pm

VCC wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
yadunoe wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:The problem as proven over and over isn't with the Kroenkes and the amount of money the club spends, as shown again and again we are broadly in line with the rest of the so called big six over the last ten years ...

The problem is that the Kroenke's allowed the Wenger / Gazidis axis to take our club down a dead-end on both transfer and wages strategy, to pretty much destroy our backroom and academy by micromanagement, and to create a squad of pretty boys with the backbone of a jellyfish. Since then the failing to make appointments of a high enough calibre - who the feck is Vinai Venkatesham some cheap in-house copy boy who's been over promoted? and then thinking Emery, Ljunberg, Arteta would compete with Pep, Klopp, Mourinho? ... that's division two standard.

The lack of action against Wenger and Gazidis, the terrible senior staff appointments, yup that's on the Kronkes ... but no question we've had the money we've just watched it all get pissed away.

This summer we will see four players out of contract (admittedly two are on loan to us) and another five all enter their final year ... the shitshow ain't over yet I'm afraid. You can't fix a decade of miss-management in two years, it took Liverpool almost thirty ... let's pray we do better than them

I agree with you but I think kroenke hasnt shown he cares simply spending the same as other top 6 isnt enough like rn we need a 200m investment maybe more hes q billionaire pull it out and get to work man city style that's what we need . I hope mbs doesnt by Newcastle and pays kroenke to gtfo and then we can be a big club again

Mate yours is a "pie in the sky" request - to just pull out £200m of his own money and spend it on players. The only people that would do that are people that do not know the value of money - like oil sheikhs. Roman Abramovich used to do that, but even he doesn't do it these days. Kroenke isn't a billionaire because he is financially stupid ! Your request does not fall into the "realistic" category.

HH its realistic for a fan to spend that
There is the problem the billionaire we picked is not a fan,his motive for buying Arsenal was to extend his sport portfolio and make money, and god knows it somehow may fall into some kind of tax dodge through creative accounting?
We should have got usmanov with his dirty money but some fans and board didn't like the idea, but hey there probably isn't a billionaire out there that has not got dirty money coming in somehow.
Best investment Arsenal could make is cleaning out the coaching staff, all we have done is appoint a head coach (who identity looks much like AW so far) and change the deck chairs of the other coaching staff, we have produced nothing for years from the youth team, and before peeps start shooting that comment down, yes we have a few players with potential ! When did the club ever grow that potential last. There is the problem as you say throwing money at it helps and should plug the gaps or bring in the necessary world class acts to build around, but the clubs training program is a joke the club needs a clean out everyone is far too comfortable just bringing in a wage with no accountability or targets much like ozil has been accused


How will throwing money at it plug the gaps?
We spent big in the summer. Where are we now in the league? 7 pts off relegation?

We spent £8m on Martinelli and £72m on Pepe.
Which of the 2 players would you keep right now if you could only keep one of them?
Then there is £40m on Xhaka, £35m on Mustafi, £60m on Lacazette, £60m on Auba.
These are the players that are part of a team that is the worst Arsenal team in living memory - and the most expensive.

I agree our coaching seems to be a problem.
Along with that, we need a few loan signings to keep us in the PL whilst we build up young players.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:26 am

And thanks Jay, you make a very valid point. Who in their right mind wants to or will throw away £200m of their own cash on substandard players ???? Spending money is not the cure-all for Arsenal, choosing the right players, at the right price and having them coached properly is the way forward.

Splashing the cash willy nilly as we have seen in the past 4 years doesn't work.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:02 pm

Splashing cash does definitely work if you do it correctly and buy the right players at the right time.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby yadunoe » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:14 am

VCC wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
yadunoe wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:The problem as proven over and over isn't with the Kroenkes and the amount of money the club spends, as shown again and again we are broadly in line with the rest of the so called big six over the last ten years ...

The problem is that the Kroenke's allowed the Wenger / Gazidis axis to take our club down a dead-end on both transfer and wages strategy, to pretty much destroy our backroom and academy by micromanagement, and to create a squad of pretty boys with the backbone of a jellyfish. Since then the failing to make appointments of a high enough calibre - who the feck is Vinai Venkatesham some cheap in-house copy boy who's been over promoted? and then thinking Emery, Ljunberg, Arteta would compete with Pep, Klopp, Mourinho? ... that's division two standard.

The lack of action against Wenger and Gazidis, the terrible senior staff appointments, yup that's on the Kronkes ... but no question we've had the money we've just watched it all get pissed away.

This summer we will see four players out of contract (admittedly two are on loan to us) and another five all enter their final year ... the shitshow ain't over yet I'm afraid. You can't fix a decade of miss-management in two years, it took Liverpool almost thirty ... let's pray we do better than them

I agree with you but I think kroenke hasnt shown he cares simply spending the same as other top 6 isnt enough like rn we need a 200m investment maybe more hes q billionaire pull it out and get to work man city style that's what we need . I hope mbs doesnt by Newcastle and pays kroenke to gtfo and then we can be a big club again

Mate yours is a "pie in the sky" request - to just pull out £200m of his own money and spend it on players. The only people that would do that are people that do not know the value of money - like oil sheikhs. Roman Abramovich used to do that, but even he doesn't do it these days. Kroenke isn't a billionaire because he is financially stupid ! Your request does not fall into the "realistic" category.

HH its realistic for a fan to spend that
There is the problem the billionaire we picked is not a fan,his motive for buying Arsenal was to extend his sport portfolio and make money, and god knows it somehow may fall into some kind of tax dodge through creative accounting?
We should have got usmanov with his dirty money but some fans and board didn't like the idea, but hey there probably isn't a billionaire out there that has not got dirty money coming in somehow.
Best investment Arsenal could make is cleaning out the coaching staff, all we have done is appoint a head coach (who identity looks much like AW so far) and change the deck chairs of the other coaching staff, we have produced nothing for years from the youth team, and before peeps start shooting that comment down, yes we have a few players with potential ! When did the club ever grow that potential last. There is the problem as you say throwing money at it helps and should plug the gaps or bring in the necessary world class acts to build around, but the clubs training program is a joke the club needs a clean out everyone is far too comfortable just bringing in a wage with no accountability or targets much like ozil has been accused

I agree with this kroenke doesnt care he needs to spend 200m on players and get rid of shit coaches but he won't because he only uses arsenal as collateral for L.A rams his new cash cow now that they are probably worth more then arsenal he will give less of a f**k about us and we will be officially mid table unless fans revolt and demand he sells because without the fans arsenal is nothing MBS is one of the shittiest human beings on planet earth but I wouldnt give two fucks if he wanted to money launder is wealth though arsenal. We need investment in players coaching training facility scouts everything that's not going to come from kroenke. Ive also said that whoever bought pepe over koulibaly or upemacano should be fired simple.
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