The Kroenke Problem

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Sun May 30, 2021 3:56 pm

Abramovich may be buying his trophies, but he's getting a way better deal on them than we are.

Arsenal are 5th in net spend since 2016, Chelsea are 8th. Almost £350m in net spend for 2 FA cups.

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 31, 2021 9:44 am

I get this chart but it ignores previous spend. Chelsea can get away with spending less recently because they spent so much prior to 2016. Meanwhile we have eroded squad quality so much that we need to spend to catch up - and we have been doing so poorly, wasting good money in the process.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Mon May 31, 2021 3:41 pm

theHotHead wrote:I get this chart but it ignores previous spend. Chelsea can get away with spending less recently because they spent so much prior to 2016. Meanwhile we have eroded squad quality so much that we need to spend to catch up - and we have been doing so poorly, wasting good money in the process.


Like who? Fernando Torres? David Luiz? That's £100m right there.

Chelsea's best players have been some of their cheapest. Hazard, Costa, Kante, Azpilicueta, Mendy, Rudiger, Christensen - nobody on that list cost more than £32m. Expensive flops like Morata and Drinkwater are quickly benched and moved on.

£16m Mendy was on unemployment 5 years ago and finishes the season with the joint highest # of clean sheets in CL history. It's not about money, it's about the right recruitment.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Between 2010 and 2015 (inclusive) Chelsea had a gross spend of £622.99m, a net spend of £279.42m. The notable purchases were:
Torres - £52m
Hazard - £31m
Willian - £32m
Costa - £34m

If you include the players in the £20m to £30m bracket:
Pedro
Abdul Rahman
Fabregas
Cuadrado
Matic
Oscar
Luiz

Contrast that to Arsenal in the same period:
Sanchez
Ozil

Now the players in the £20m to 30m bracket:
............
.........
.......

That's my point.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Mon May 31, 2021 6:16 pm

theHotHead wrote:Between 2010 and 2015 (inclusive) Chelsea had a gross spend of £622.99m, a net spend of £279.42m. The notable purchases were:
Torres - £52m
Hazard - £31m
Willian - £32m
Costa - £34m

If you include the players in the £20m to £30m bracket:
Pedro
Abdul Rahman
Fabregas
Cuadrado
Matic
Oscar
Luiz

Contrast that to Arsenal in the same period:
Sanchez
Ozil

Now the players in the £20m to 30m bracket:
............
.........
.......

That's my point.


Your point is that Chelsea spent a lot in 2010-2015.

My point is that none of those buys had any role in the 2021 Champions League besides Azpilicueta, who was the cheapest of the lot.

It's about coaching. Why does Atletico starter Partey look like Frimpong at Arsenal?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:36 am

I dont think you understand my point. The table shows Arsenal have a larger net spend than Chelsea from 2016, you then commented that Chelsea are winning more trophies despite spending less than us. I then commented that the figures give a false truth because, up until 2016 Chelsea were spending loads more than us, so their squad was in a better position and didn't require lots of additions.

You then commented that the players bought in that time have nothing to do with their CL win. I never said it did, my response was to your comment that Chelsea are getting a better deal than us.

Chelsea 4 trophies, Arsenal 2 trophies. But in the time leading up to 2016 (2010-2016):
Chelsea 5 trophies, Arsenal 2 trophies.

Chelsea don't go periods where their squad is weak, thats why from 2016 they were ready to compete for the big prizes, they always are. Arsenal on the other hand let their squad quality drop and finally when they decided to spend money they were playing catch up. Thats why I said its not an accurate representation of the situation, you are not comparing apples with apples.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Losmeister » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:28 am

aniym wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
£16m Mendy was on unemployment 5 years ago and finishes the season with the joint highest # of clean sheets in CL history. It's not about money, it's about the right recruitment.


all damned day and twice on gameday. ( which is why letting Emi go was criminal)

our recruitment got steadily poorer under Wenger (notwithstanding how the new stadium figured in)

its not gotten any better. we dont have the talent to be a top team, and havent for a while.
which is why we got summarily drummed out of the UCL as soon as we got outta the groups for the last decade we were IN the UCL.

just getting Wenger out was NEVER the panancea it was made out to be.

and i thought Wenga shoulda fell on his sword a few years earlier.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Arsenal Tone » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:36 am

Kroenke isn't the problem. We're spending big money. If it doesn't work it's the football guys that are the problem!

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby VCC » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 am

Tony Adams wrote:Kroenke isn't the problem. We're spending big money. If it doesn't work it's the football guys that are the problem!

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Agree no one can say there has not been investment, give the money to somebody other than a glorified ball boy
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Angelito » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:57 pm

Losmeister wrote:all damned day and twice on gameday. ( which is why letting Emi go was criminal)

our recruitment got steadily poorer under Wenger (notwithstanding how the new stadium figured in)

its not gotten any better. we dont have the talent to be a top team, and havent for a while.
which is why we got summarily drummed out of the UCL as soon as we got outta the groups for the last decade we were IN the UCL.

just getting Wenger out was NEVER the panancea it was made out to be.

and i thought Wenga shoulda fell on his sword a few years earlier.


Save for 16/17, our recruitment under Wenger could be labelled as conservative, but we didn't flush money down the toilet, as we've seen since his departure. The way these people have mismanaged Guendouzi, Ozil, Torreira, Saliba, and arguably Martinelli alongside burning money on Willian, Cedric, Mari, etc., whilst Arsenal are gunning for over-rated, over-priced English talents, it's obvious that these folks have eaten more than they could digest. Cedric was bought as Bellerin's back-up, yet, Arteta opted to play Chambers there. Mari Is a decent CB. How many CBs does he need?

The goalkeeping situation is a nightmare. Those folks backed Leno over Emi. For what? So, that Leno would leave a season later? Why didn't they offer Leno a fresh contract if they so wanted him to be Arsenal's #1?

Leno is a fine keeper. I have no problem with him as our #1 but why does he want out now? What's going on?

Arsenal are the only club that's so intent on building its defense over its midfield and attack. I don't remember any club that focuses solely on the defensive aspect of the game. It's usually the other way around. You build a stellar attack and the defense is the final piece in the puzzle.

With Wenger, the question always was, who replaces him? Mikel Arteta? I've honestly started believing that Eddie Howe would do a better job than him, without spending millions and millions on defenders alone.


Tony Adams wrote:Kroenke isn't the problem. We're spending big money. If it doesn't work it's the football guys that are the problem!

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Arsenal have taken a loan this summer to spend big. The intention, hopefully, is to get back into the top-4. My fear is if we end up wasting that money on the likes of Abraham, Ramsdale, and Maddison, we will fall into a bigger hole. My initial fear, which I have mentioned explicitly, was becoming Everton-under-Moyes. That seems to be the trajectory.

I agree with you that it's not Kroenke's fault at this moment. It's down to Edu and Arteta. Yet, it will be Arsenal that suffers if these two continue to squander money. Even if they sack these two, the next manager and DoF might not have the luxury of resources that Arsenal directors and managers have had since Wenger departed.

Kroenkes need to recruit a leader, a top-rated DoF. Look at Spurs this summer. They hired Fabio Paratici, an ex-Juve technical director. Paratici has his issues but he's not a slouch like Edu. Levy sacked their most successful modern-day manager and hired Mourinho. It was a stupid move. But it denoted ambition. When it didn't work out with Mourinho, they sacked him, and recognizing the need of the hour, they hired a highly experienced football director.

This "process" bs has gotten way out of hand. It's not about simply finding excuses anymore. It's as if we've reverted to pre-Wenger premier league, where English talents moved across English clubs. Has that data analytics company—StatDNA—died or something? Is Edu's arsenal filled with over-priced Englishmen?

What's going on?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Hypergooner » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:29 pm

What's most annoying is that if we had the right manager, I feel we had a squad good enough to challenge last season. I know people love to say we lack leaders, we lack quality midfielders etc. But it's all rubbish. Last season we had a squad full of great players and youth with attacking flair. With the tactics we have have employed under Arteta, it wouldn't matter if we had Ronaldo, Messi and the Man City back 4. They would have all looked average and we would have lacked leaders. None of that is Kroenke's fault but he is ultimately the one signing off on our directors who sign our manager. A football man would have forced them to be ambitious in the hunt for a new manager
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby VCC » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:04 pm

My problem with Kronke is he is a very poor business man and a that overflows to being a shit owner ( in football terms).
Football business success comes on the back of success.

If you put a invincibles shirt and last seasons shirt on Ebay,what one is going to sell for the higher price.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:24 am

Hypergooner wrote:What's most annoying is that if we had the right manager, I feel we had a squad good enough to challenge last season. I know people love to say we lack leaders, we lack quality midfielders etc. But it's all rubbish. Last season we had a squad full of great players and youth with attacking flair. With the tactics we have have employed under Arteta, it wouldn't matter if we had Ronaldo, Messi and the Man City back 4. They would have all looked average and we would have lacked leaders. None of that is Kroenke's fault but he is ultimately the one signing off on our directors who sign our manager. A football man would have forced them to be ambitious in the hunt for a new manager

I'm with you in that the squad was capable of much better than there 8th place finish we got. Liverpool were in turmoil, Spurs were pants, Chelsea were pants, we were definitely capable of duking it out with those clubs last season.

This season is tougher, Man City will be strong, Spurs will be strong with NES, I think Klopp will push Liverpool after their hangover season and Chelsea look strong with Tuchel. Top 4 might be a stretch for this team but with the right manager we would be able to keep all the other teams honest at least.

With Arteta all I see is more mid-table rubbish.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Nuggets » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:41 am

theHotHead wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:What's most annoying is that if we had the right manager, I feel we had a squad good enough to challenge last season. I know people love to say we lack leaders, we lack quality midfielders etc. But it's all rubbish. Last season we had a squad full of great players and youth with attacking flair. With the tactics we have have employed under Arteta, it wouldn't matter if we had Ronaldo, Messi and the Man City back 4. They would have all looked average and we would have lacked leaders. None of that is Kroenke's fault but he is ultimately the one signing off on our directors who sign our manager. A football man would have forced them to be ambitious in the hunt for a new manager

I'm with you in that the squad was capable of much better than there 8th place finish we got. Liverpool were in turmoil, Spurs were pants, Chelsea were pants, we were definitely capable of duking it out with those clubs last season.

This season is tougher, Man City will be strong, Spurs will be strong with NES, I think Klopp will push Liverpool after their hangover season and Chelsea look strong with Tuchel. Top 4 might be a stretch for this team but with the right manager we would be able to keep all the other teams honest at least.

With Arteta all I see is more mid-table rubbish.


If we are lucky.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:41 pm

Ramsdale/???
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Partey/Sambi--???/???
Saka/Pepe--Odegaard/ESR--Smith Rowe/Martinelli
???/???
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