The Kroenke Problem

[Zenith]

But hang in a sec Zedie! We already know that some players have crazily inflated prices. They turned down Tierney for £25m, Trippier, a proven RB in the Premier League and England international at 28 years old was just sold for £20m!

Danny Rose an experienced Prem player and England international at 29 years old is touted at being sold for £20m.

Why are we paying silly money for this Scottish RB? Why would we pay silly money on Zaha when Ziyech is reportedly available for €30-40m? The Tierney and Zaha valuations are silly, it has nothing to do with Jay or PNG making silly valuations, perfectly good players for Arsenal are available for the right money.

Tierney is a left back.

Also Ziyech is a completely different player to Zaha; whilst a capable dribbler, he doesn't have Zaha's dribbling technique and explosiveness.

Hakim has a passing range Zaha can only dream of having and is more comparable in style to Özil, albeit with a superior engine/work ethic. He doesn't quite have the decision-making and passing precision prime Özil used to have, though.

[Gooner_ESR10]

Are we going to make 3 or 4 first team signings in 20 days? Im losing hope every day that goes by.

[Zedie]

But hang in a sec Zedie! We already know that some players have crazily inflated prices. They turned down Tierney for £25m, Trippier, a proven RB in the Premier League and England international at 28 years old was just sold for £20m!

Danny Rose an experienced Prem player and England international at 29 years old is touted at being sold for £20m.

Why are we paying silly money for this Scottish RB? Why would we pay silly money on Zaha when Ziyech is reportedly available for €30-40m? The Tierney and Zaha valuations are silly, it has nothing to do with Jay or PNG making silly valuations, perfectly good players for Arsenal are available for the right money.

Rose 29 years old. Low likelihood of resale value for him as with trippier. By the time they are ready to sell, these two will be 31/32 hence their price.

Tierney - 22 years old. Potential to explode if he performs.

Also highly regarded and the exact mold of a typical modern day FB. LB position is a global struggle as it is, they are in short supply much like top strikers.

Our bid was rejected because weve out too little in the upfront cost and made unrealistic offers on the addons so we have to restructure going by the multiple reports every time we get rejected.

We are doing this because we have a limited budget to offer them upfront. Hence the need for more funds to top up the upfront element.

Re ziyech - see zeniths post. It's the same premise as your thoughts on AMN as a CM playing right back (but obvs less of an extreme).

Ziyech is an AM. His skill set is for AM position and he wont be able to stretch teams like zaha does.

Tbh I'm actually more excited about Everton but I'm pretty sure his adjustment time is going to be a long while. Something that may cause us problems this season if we sign him. Then again he could be like ronaldo or ronaldinho when they came over to the Dutch league ie absolutely killed it.

It comes down to how much you are prepared to gamble on us making CL this season.

[jayramfootball]

Any approach can be the right approach if you have the right people overseeing things. The one thing United and Liverpool have in common is that they got help from their owners, help that had they not have gotten they’d probably be far worse than they are now. We were in a situation where we needed help from the ownership and essentially got nothing. We are currently in a situation where we need help from the ownership and, so far, it looks like we’ll get nothing.

Liverpool's owner helping them is irrelevant.
We have about the same net spend as them over the last 10 years and more than them over the last 5 years, so as a comparison Kroenke didn't need to add funds to be in the same position in terms of investment. Utd invested a lot more and they are below us right now. So, no, we were never in a position where we needed help from the owner. We spent as much and have over £200m in the bank. To even hint that our issues are down to the owner not adding private funds is pure folly - completely debunked by the facts.

I do, however agree with you that the approach regarding spending is far less important than who is making the player decisions and coaching decisions. THAT is where we have messed up and is the reason why we have less valuable assets to trade now AND why the team has regressed.
We're in a tough spot in terms of being a legitimate title challenger, which is not going to be fixed overnight.

You’re right tbf. We didn’t and don’t need help from our owner if you’re satisfied with us staying where we are, slipping further away from our actual competition, or taking the long and wishful route back to where we should be.

The owner is alread spending large sums of his money on the squad - more than most owners.
No one is happy with the way we have fallen due to Wenger and his staff, but the road back is to rebuild the squad and change the coaching along with the decision making on which players to bring in. Kroenke can spend the same large sums of money he has been spending to achieve success. We just need ot be patient and a hell of a lot smarter on player trading.

Blowing £80m on an average, hit and miss player like Zaha - or more like him - would be crazy.

[CrimsonGunner11]

Any approach can be the right approach if you have the right people overseeing things. The one thing United and Liverpool have in common is that they got help from their owners, help that had they not have gotten they’d probably be far worse than they are now. We were in a situation where we needed help from the ownership and essentially got nothing. We are currently in a situation where we need help from the ownership and, so far, it looks like we’ll get nothing.

Liverpool's owner helping them is irrelevant.
We have about the same net spend as them over the last 10 years and more than them over the last 5 years, so as a comparison Kroenke didn't need to add funds to be in the same position in terms of investment. Utd invested a lot more and they are below us right now. So, no, we were never in a position where we needed help from the owner. We spent as much and have over £200m in the bank. To even hint that our issues are down to the owner not adding private funds is pure folly - completely debunked by the facts.

I do, however agree with you that the approach regarding spending is far less important than who is making the player decisions and coaching decisions. THAT is where we have messed up and is the reason why we have less valuable assets to trade now AND why the team has regressed.
We're in a tough spot in terms of being a legitimate title challenger, which is not going to be fixed overnight.

You’re right tbf. We didn’t and don’t need help from our owner if you’re satisfied with us staying where we are, slipping further away from our actual competition, or taking the long and wishful route back to where we should be.

The owner is alread spending large sums of his money on the squad - more than most owners.
No one is happy with the way we have fallen due to Wenger and his staff, but the road back is to rebuild the squad and change the coaching along with the decision making on which players to bring in. Kroenke can spend the same large sums of money he has been spending to achieve success. We just need ot be patient and a hell of a lot smarter on player trading.

Blowing £80m on an average, hit and miss player like Zaha - or more like him - would be crazy.

All he’s doing is allowing the club to reinvest what it makes something Arsenal has been doing for eons and something other clubs also do.

If some people want to defend Kroenke like he’s innocent in all this, they’re free to do so. I, for one, know that there’s enough evidence to show that Kroenke is part of the reason why we are where we’re at today. No amount of twisting facts will change that for me.

[EliteKiller]

All he’s doing is allowing the club to reinvest what it makes something Arsenal has been doing for eons and something other clubs also do.

If some people want to defend Kroenke like he’s innocent in all this, they’re free to do so. I, for one, know that there’s enough evidence to show that Kroenke is part of the reason why we are where we’re at today. No amount of twisting facts will change that for me.

So he's doing exactly what our shareholders have always done .... sure he takes some blame but:

The brutal truth is since 2001 we have managed to piss away our financial advantage ... in 2001 we had the second highest income, we stayed pretty flat until 2007 where with the Emirates opening we almost caught Utd, however running through to 2014 we dropped slowly behind the financially doped Chelsea and City



But then disaster struck, along came the great axis of disaster Gazidis and Wonger .... from 2011 whilst our rivals drove ever upwards we entered the dark ages of miss-management and contract madness .... from second we will soon be down to sixth - we already sit behind Utd, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and we're just 10m ahead of Spuds .... in just seven grim years our financial advantage has gone and with it our top four status ...

Blame the Shareholders? sure they were the ones ultimately responsible, but don't forget all they did was exactly what our owners have done for decades, employ the managers to run the club .... it was those managers who fecked us ...

and let's not forget the first two actions after Kroenke's full takeover? pay off Wonger push out Gazidis ... sure to late but at least he finally it got done.

Here it is in horrible reality ... whilst despite sky-high prices we continue to stagnate all our rivals go forwards ... if it wasn't for the 'other' which is property sales our position would be even worse ... and now we've got no more property to sell ...

and remember in the next set of accounts Liverpool have a new stand and a CL win, Spurs have a new ground and a CL run ... City are PL champions and Utd are just feckin' huge .... it will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better, it simply must

[jayramfootball]

Any approach can be the right approach if you have the right people overseeing things. The one thing United and Liverpool have in common is that they got help from their owners, help that had they not have gotten they’d probably be far worse than they are now. We were in a situation where we needed help from the ownership and essentially got nothing. We are currently in a situation where we need help from the ownership and, so far, it looks like we’ll get nothing.

Liverpool's owner helping them is irrelevant.
We have about the same net spend as them over the last 10 years and more than them over the last 5 years, so as a comparison Kroenke didn't need to add funds to be in the same position in terms of investment. Utd invested a lot more and they are below us right now. So, no, we were never in a position where we needed help from the owner. We spent as much and have over £200m in the bank. To even hint that our issues are down to the owner not adding private funds is pure folly - completely debunked by the facts.

I do, however agree with you that the approach regarding spending is far less important than who is making the player decisions and coaching decisions. THAT is where we have messed up and is the reason why we have less valuable assets to trade now AND why the team has regressed.
We're in a tough spot in terms of being a legitimate title challenger, which is not going to be fixed overnight.

You’re right tbf. We didn’t and don’t need help from our owner if you’re satisfied with us staying where we are, slipping further away from our actual competition, or taking the long and wishful route back to where we should be.

The owner is alread spending large sums of his money on the squad - more than most owners.
No one is happy with the way we have fallen due to Wenger and his staff, but the road back is to rebuild the squad and change the coaching along with the decision making on which players to bring in. Kroenke can spend the same large sums of money he has been spending to achieve success. We just need ot be patient and a hell of a lot smarter on player trading.

Blowing £80m on an average, hit and miss player like Zaha - or more like him - would be crazy.

All he’s doing is allowing the club to reinvest what it makes something Arsenal has been doing for eons and something other clubs also do.

If some people want to defend Kroenke like he’s innocent in all this, they’re free to do so. I, for one, know that there’s enough evidence to show that Kroenke is part of the reason why we are where we’re at today. No amount of twisting facts will change that for me.

The profit that the club makes after taxes belongs to Kroenke. It IS his money.
When you understand that, your argument becomes that he should use a different bank account to spend from.
When you realise that worrying about which of his bank accounts he uses your argument becomes is laid bare - it's simply that you want Kroenke to spend MORE of his money
Then you have to face the fact that over the last 5 years he has already spent more than any owner of 3 of the clubs that finished above us last year.

If you manage to follow those facts, you should get to an understanding that money has not been the cause of our decline and Kroenke has been anything but stingy in player investment.

You've got the wrong target for your angst - the guys you should be pointing your cannons at have already left the club (Wenge and Gazidis - dumb and dumber) We're left with the task of rebuilding after the mess they left the club in, which is going to take time.

[CrimsonGunner11]

Any approach can be the right approach if you have the right people overseeing things. The one thing United and Liverpool have in common is that they got help from their owners, help that had they not have gotten they’d probably be far worse than they are now. We were in a situation where we needed help from the ownership and essentially got nothing. We are currently in a situation where we need help from the ownership and, so far, it looks like we’ll get nothing.

Liverpool's owner helping them is irrelevant.
We have about the same net spend as them over the last 10 years and more than them over the last 5 years, so as a comparison Kroenke didn't need to add funds to be in the same position in terms of investment. Utd invested a lot more and they are below us right now. So, no, we were never in a position where we needed help from the owner. We spent as much and have over £200m in the bank. To even hint that our issues are down to the owner not adding private funds is pure folly - completely debunked by the facts.

I do, however agree with you that the approach regarding spending is far less important than who is making the player decisions and coaching decisions. THAT is where we have messed up and is the reason why we have less valuable assets to trade now AND why the team has regressed.
We're in a tough spot in terms of being a legitimate title challenger, which is not going to be fixed overnight.

You’re right tbf. We didn’t and don’t need help from our owner if you’re satisfied with us staying where we are, slipping further away from our actual competition, or taking the long and wishful route back to where we should be.

The owner is alread spending large sums of his money on the squad - more than most owners.
No one is happy with the way we have fallen due to Wenger and his staff, but the road back is to rebuild the squad and change the coaching along with the decision making on which players to bring in. Kroenke can spend the same large sums of money he has been spending to achieve success. We just need ot be patient and a hell of a lot smarter on player trading.

Blowing £80m on an average, hit and miss player like Zaha - or more like him - would be crazy.

All he’s doing is allowing the club to reinvest what it makes something Arsenal has been doing for eons and something other clubs also do.

If some people want to defend Kroenke like he’s innocent in all this, they’re free to do so. I, for one, know that there’s enough evidence to show that Kroenke is part of the reason why we are where we’re at today. No amount of twisting facts will change that for me.

The profit that the club makes after taxes belongs to Kroenke. It IS his money.
When you understand that, your argument becomes that he should use a different bank account to spend from.
When you realise that worrying about which of his bank accounts he uses your argument becomes is laid bare - it's simply that you want Kroenke to spend MORE of his money
Then you have to face the fact that over the last 5 years he has already spent more than any owner of 3 of the clubs that finished above us last year.

If you manage to follow those facts, you should get to an understanding that money has not been the cause of our decline and Kroenke has been anything but stingy in player investment.

You've got the wrong target for your angst - the guys you should be pointing your cannons at have already left the club (Wenge and Gazidis - dumb and dumber) We're left with the task of rebuilding after the mess they left the club in, which is going to take time.

The points you’ve raised have already been addressed by me and others so I won’t address them again. I could bring up the posts but I can’t be bothered right now.

If you still can’t see from all these posts how Kroenke’s actions has put us where we are today and how he can help us get out of it then there’s nothing more I can say about this matter.

[EliteKiller]

The points you’ve raised have already been addressed by me and others so I won’t address them again. I could bring up the posts but I can’t be bothered right now.

If you still can’t see from all these posts how Kroenke’s actions has put us where we are today and how he can help us get out of it then there’s nothing more I can say about this matter.

Thank goodness for that ....

[jayramfootball]

Any approach can be the right approach if you have the right people overseeing things. The one thing United and Liverpool have in common is that they got help from their owners, help that had they not have gotten they’d probably be far worse than they are now. We were in a situation where we needed help from the ownership and essentially got nothing. We are currently in a situation where we need help from the ownership and, so far, it looks like we’ll get nothing.

Liverpool's owner helping them is irrelevant.
We have about the same net spend as them over the last 10 years and more than them over the last 5 years, so as a comparison Kroenke didn't need to add funds to be in the same position in terms of investment. Utd invested a lot more and they are below us right now. So, no, we were never in a position where we needed help from the owner. We spent as much and have over £200m in the bank. To even hint that our issues are down to the owner not adding private funds is pure folly - completely debunked by the facts.

I do, however agree with you that the approach regarding spending is far less important than who is making the player decisions and coaching decisions. THAT is where we have messed up and is the reason why we have less valuable assets to trade now AND why the team has regressed.
We're in a tough spot in terms of being a legitimate title challenger, which is not going to be fixed overnight.

You’re right tbf. We didn’t and don’t need help from our owner if you’re satisfied with us staying where we are, slipping further away from our actual competition, or taking the long and wishful route back to where we should be.

The owner is alread spending large sums of his money on the squad - more than most owners.
No one is happy with the way we have fallen due to Wenger and his staff, but the road back is to rebuild the squad and change the coaching along with the decision making on which players to bring in. Kroenke can spend the same large sums of money he has been spending to achieve success. We just need ot be patient and a hell of a lot smarter on player trading.

Blowing £80m on an average, hit and miss player like Zaha - or more like him - would be crazy.

All he’s doing is allowing the club to reinvest what it makes something Arsenal has been doing for eons and something other clubs also do.

If some people want to defend Kroenke like he’s innocent in all this, they’re free to do so. I, for one, know that there’s enough evidence to show that Kroenke is part of the reason why we are where we’re at today. No amount of twisting facts will change that for me.

The profit that the club makes after taxes belongs to Kroenke. It IS his money.
When you understand that, your argument becomes that he should use a different bank account to spend from.
When you realise that worrying about which of his bank accounts he uses your argument becomes is laid bare - it's simply that you want Kroenke to spend MORE of his money
Then you have to face the fact that over the last 5 years he has already spent more than any owner of 3 of the clubs that finished above us last year.

If you manage to follow those facts, you should get to an understanding that money has not been the cause of our decline and Kroenke has been anything but stingy in player investment.

You've got the wrong target for your angst - the guys you should be pointing your cannons at have already left the club (Wenge and Gazidis - dumb and dumber) We're left with the task of rebuilding after the mess they left the club in, which is going to take time.

The points you’ve raised have already been addressed by me and others so I won’t address them again. I could bring up the posts but I can’t be bothered right now.

If you still can’t see from all these posts how Kroenke’s actions has put us where we are today and how he can help us get out of it then there’s nothing more I can say about this matter.

Points read, reviewed and debunked.
Facts make it clear that Kroenke has spent his money - more than other owners of 3 clubs in the last 5 years, all of which finished above us.
Kroenke is just your bogeyman. A useful person to blame for those that like to try and wrap up our issues and pin them on one thing.

[Sims]

Kroenke hasn’t invested any of his own money directly into the club

The club has spent what itself has made, Kroenke owns the valuation of what the club is worth as a brand and an asset. Given that the bank balance of the club has had nothing to do with his ownership, I assume he had a lassez-faire approach as long as the club hasn’t lost it value

Which led to one person being the head coach, manager, financial director and chief scout pissed away all money we self-obtained

[jayramfootball]

Kroenke hasn’t invested any of his own money directly into the club

The club has spent what itself has made, Kroenke owns the valuation of what the club is worth as a brand and an asset. Given that the bank balance of the club has had nothing to do with his ownership, I assume he had a lassez-faire approach as long as the club hasn’t lost it value

Which led to one person being the head coach, manager, financial director and chief scout pissed away all money we self-obtained

The club is 100% owned by Kroenke.

All cash generated is his own money, minus what he needs to pay to the tax man, should he decide to take that cash out and pay it to himself.
All money invested in players is Kroenke's money.

[LMAO]

y'all mofos are really arguing over semantics

[Sims]

So Kroenke could sell everyone, strip every asset and sell the Emirates and dissolve the club if he wanted to

[jayramfootball]

So Kroenke could sell everyone, strip every asset and sell the Emirates and dissolve the club if he wanted to

Yep.