The Kroenke Problem

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:13 pm

Zedie wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Zedie it is you that fail to address points. You regurgitate the same nonsense in every post then you make up fictional scenarios that are clearly not the case. Every question you have asked has been answered, its just bluster coming from you now.

Having seen that the mighty Wolves have over the past 3 years a higher net spend than us I think we SHOULD be spending more, we can bloody afford it. However, I do not want us to go down the route of Chelsea, Man U and Man City in spending silly money. Its not my money but I don't care. I wasn't us to do things the right way and a sustainable way. Chelsea are f***ked when Abramavich has had enough of his toy.


This is insanity.

I've been saying the whole time that we can spend more responsibly and pointing to our cash reserves and ability to spend privately within FFP rules this whole time and you've been arguing against me for that same time.



Depends on what you think is reasonable. It's confusing to me because the below isn't a proposal to spend wisely.

You're still going at in on the Zaha thread. Zaha!

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31526&start=345

Nope.

Ffp allows us to spend a max 30m private funds over 3 years, but allows you to clear that balance every year for each of those 3 years through player sales etc.

So you can spend a max 90m private funds ie kronke hands in pocket but have to balance at least 60m by the end of the 3 year period.

We also have the new Adidas deal that's kicked in

Weve also cleared 24m a year of wages with Ramsey welbeck etc leaving.

We also have 230m(?) Self generated funds that we can use fully IF WE WANTED TO. WE COULD USE ANY AMOUNT WE WANTED TO OUT OF IT, IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE ALL JUST WHAT WE WANT TO (this part in capitals is specifically for power n glory, elite and jayram who will try to hijack this point and twist it into me saying we have to spend it all immediately).

This is all actions we have already taken or have the ability to implement today of from the start of the season in the case of the 30m private funding part.

Outside of that, we can still sell players which in turn saves us more wages and creates a bigger cash balance to spend.

We can afford all our targets right now if negotiated correctly and if kronke puts his hand in his pocket.

He chooses not to and we arent selling anyone for some reason.


I've spelled it out many times mate, you just dont want to acknowledge it and keep going to extremes.

You seem to have missed the part in capitals out conveniently too plus quite a few other posts spelling it all out in the most basic detail possible.

At this stage, I'm really not sure how you can be confused by any of what I've said.


I'm using your own words and nothing extreme. You're arguing that we can afford Zaha with a guy that is saying we need to be responsible with our funds. CP are talking silly prices. £80m is the talk. As said, anything over £40m is daylight robbery and even that is a lot to pay.

But you continue to talk about the funds we have saved over the years along with what Kroenke should spend and the players we can sell just to meet their valuation or come close to it. That's not responsible spending and I say it comes down to perspective because you may think it's responsible spending that much on a player like Zaha.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Zedie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:35 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Zedie wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Zedie it is you that fail to address points. You regurgitate the same nonsense in every post then you make up fictional scenarios that are clearly not the case. Every question you have asked has been answered, its just bluster coming from you now.

Having seen that the mighty Wolves have over the past 3 years a higher net spend than us I think we SHOULD be spending more, we can bloody afford it. However, I do not want us to go down the route of Chelsea, Man U and Man City in spending silly money. Its not my money but I don't care. I wasn't us to do things the right way and a sustainable way. Chelsea are f***ked when Abramavich has had enough of his toy.


This is insanity.

I've been saying the whole time that we can spend more responsibly and pointing to our cash reserves and ability to spend privately within FFP rules this whole time and you've been arguing against me for that same time.



Depends on what you think is reasonable. It's confusing to me because the below isn't a proposal to spend wisely.

You're still going at in on the Zaha thread. Zaha!

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31526&start=345

Nope.

Ffp allows us to spend a max 30m private funds over 3 years, but allows you to clear that balance every year for each of those 3 years through player sales etc.

So you can spend a max 90m private funds ie kronke hands in pocket but have to balance at least 60m by the end of the 3 year period.

We also have the new Adidas deal that's kicked in

Weve also cleared 24m a year of wages with Ramsey welbeck etc leaving.

We also have 230m(?) Self generated funds that we can use fully IF WE WANTED TO. WE COULD USE ANY AMOUNT WE WANTED TO OUT OF IT, IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE ALL JUST WHAT WE WANT TO (this part in capitals is specifically for power n glory, elite and jayram who will try to hijack this point and twist it into me saying we have to spend it all immediately).

This is all actions we have already taken or have the ability to implement today of from the start of the season in the case of the 30m private funding part.

Outside of that, we can still sell players which in turn saves us more wages and creates a bigger cash balance to spend.

We can afford all our targets right now if negotiated correctly and if kronke puts his hand in his pocket.

He chooses not to and we arent selling anyone for some reason.


I've spelled it out many times mate, you just dont want to acknowledge it and keep going to extremes.

You seem to have missed the part in capitals out conveniently too plus quite a few other posts spelling it all out in the most basic detail possible.

At this stage, I'm really not sure how you can be confused by any of what I've said.


I'm using your own words and nothing extreme. You're arguing that we can afford Zaha with a guy that is saying we need to be responsible with our funds. CP are talking silly prices. £80m is the talk. As said, anything over £40m is daylight robbery and even that is a lot to pay.

But you continue to talk about the funds we have saved over the years along with what Kroenke should spend and the players we can sell just to meet their valuation or come close to it. That's not responsible spending and I say it comes down to perspective because you may think it's responsible spending that much on a player like Zaha.


Well theres the difference between us.

You think zaha is worth 40m no more
Jayram thinks tierney is 10m no more

I can only assume 30m for saliba an 18 year old with a years experience in the French league is insane and we should pull out

40m for a Brazilian who has stepped up this season and unproven in Europe must be too much

It's all relative. Going back to offering what we think the player is worth versus what every one else accepts is the players worth is taking us back to the wenger days of:

getting gervinho instead of hazard

turning down Cristiano ronaldo because we didnt want to pay 5m more

avoiding Cahill because he was too much for a CB

having giroud as the only senior striker for 2 years because we didnt want to spend on a second one

Letting ashley Cole go because we didnt want to pay 5k a more per week

Letting sanchez go for free because we didnt want to buy a replacement with 1 or 2 years to go on his contract

You're basically advocating for signing no one.

You've ignored that wan bissakas asking price this summer was 70m and he went for 50m weeks later from palace.

Come to think of it, do you really want change?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:58 pm

Zedie wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Zedie wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Zedie it is you that fail to address points. You regurgitate the same nonsense in every post then you make up fictional scenarios that are clearly not the case. Every question you have asked has been answered, its just bluster coming from you now.

Having seen that the mighty Wolves have over the past 3 years a higher net spend than us I think we SHOULD be spending more, we can bloody afford it. However, I do not want us to go down the route of Chelsea, Man U and Man City in spending silly money. Its not my money but I don't care. I wasn't us to do things the right way and a sustainable way. Chelsea are f***ked when Abramavich has had enough of his toy.


This is insanity.

I've been saying the whole time that we can spend more responsibly and pointing to our cash reserves and ability to spend privately within FFP rules this whole time and you've been arguing against me for that same time.



Depends on what you think is reasonable. It's confusing to me because the below isn't a proposal to spend wisely.

You're still going at in on the Zaha thread. Zaha!

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31526&start=345

Nope.

Ffp allows us to spend a max 30m private funds over 3 years, but allows you to clear that balance every year for each of those 3 years through player sales etc.

So you can spend a max 90m private funds ie kronke hands in pocket but have to balance at least 60m by the end of the 3 year period.

We also have the new Adidas deal that's kicked in

Weve also cleared 24m a year of wages with Ramsey welbeck etc leaving.

We also have 230m(?) Self generated funds that we can use fully IF WE WANTED TO. WE COULD USE ANY AMOUNT WE WANTED TO OUT OF IT, IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE ALL JUST WHAT WE WANT TO (this part in capitals is specifically for power n glory, elite and jayram who will try to hijack this point and twist it into me saying we have to spend it all immediately).

This is all actions we have already taken or have the ability to implement today of from the start of the season in the case of the 30m private funding part.

Outside of that, we can still sell players which in turn saves us more wages and creates a bigger cash balance to spend.

We can afford all our targets right now if negotiated correctly and if kronke puts his hand in his pocket.

He chooses not to and we arent selling anyone for some reason.


I've spelled it out many times mate, you just dont want to acknowledge it and keep going to extremes.

You seem to have missed the part in capitals out conveniently too plus quite a few other posts spelling it all out in the most basic detail possible.

At this stage, I'm really not sure how you can be confused by any of what I've said.


I'm using your own words and nothing extreme. You're arguing that we can afford Zaha with a guy that is saying we need to be responsible with our funds. CP are talking silly prices. £80m is the talk. As said, anything over £40m is daylight robbery and even that is a lot to pay.

But you continue to talk about the funds we have saved over the years along with what Kroenke should spend and the players we can sell just to meet their valuation or come close to it. That's not responsible spending and I say it comes down to perspective because you may think it's responsible spending that much on a player like Zaha.


Well theres the difference between us.

You think zaha is worth 40m no more
Jayram thinks tierney is 10m no more

I can only assume 30m for saliba an 18 year old with a years experience in the French league is insane and we should pull out

40m for a Brazilian who has stepped up this season and unproven in Europe must be too much

It's all relative. Going back to offering what we think the player is worth versus what every one else accepts is the players worth is taking us back to the wenger days of:

getting gervinho instead of hazard

turning down Cristiano ronaldo because we didnt want to pay 5m more

avoiding Cahill because he was too much for a CB

having giroud as the only senior striker for 2 years because we didnt want to spend on a second one

Letting ashley Cole go because we didnt want to pay 5k a more per week


Letting sanchez go for free because we didnt want to buy a replacement with 1 or 2 years to go on his contract

You're basically advocating for signing no one.

You've ignored that wan bissakas asking price this summer was 70m and he went for 50m weeks later from palace.

Come to think of it, do you really want change?


Now look who is jumping to extremes? We're not talking about missing out on a Ronaldo or Hazard. This is Zaha! He's not a player that will change the trajectory of this club. I highly doubt he'll surpass Sanchez's importance to us as a wide player. Heck, I don't even think he'll be what Mahrez was for Leicester City for us.

If we're going to break our transfer record, let's not get conned in the process. Zaha is a player that barely scores 10 goals a season. He's 26 years old. 27 in November. He's not any of the top clubs radar and doesn't have a high projection to be one of the great players. It's like proposing we break our record transfer fee for a Girvinho or Giroud. It's silly talk. Try to grasp what I'm saying without jumping to more extremes.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Zedie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:26 pm

Mane had a similar record before joining liverpool. Was he not worth it?

Put zaha into context. Hes a far superior player to anyone around him limited by those same players.

Hes exactly what we need in terms of pace, stretching teams, counter attacking.

Hes a goal threat, can work in tight spaces and is strong as a bull. Hes aggressive, something we are sorely lacking.

Although not his strongest ability, he can pick a pass and is more than capable of finding a man from the byline. Hes also confident enough to hit the target if theres no other options.

Hes also signed a 5 year contract last year hence his inflated price.

Hes also prem ready so should hit the ground running.

Regardless of whether we get him, we 100% need someone like him ie Everton, however a deal can be structured for zaha that may hit the mark.

Hes exactly what this team needs, but your hung up on I dont know what tbh. Maybe you can explain why he should be expected to be hitting 20-30 goals for a team like palace from the wings or why else he is not worth what?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:18 pm

Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Zedie it is you that fail to address points. You regurgitate the same nonsense in every post then you make up fictional scenarios that are clearly not the case. Every question you have asked has been answered, its just bluster coming from you now.

Having seen that the mighty Wolves have over the past 3 years a higher net spend than us I think we SHOULD be spending more, we can bloody afford it. However, I do not want us to go down the route of Chelsea, Man U and Man City in spending silly money. Its not my money but I don't care. I wasn't us to do things the right way and a sustainable way. Chelsea are f***ked when Abramavich has had enough of his toy.


This is insanity.

I've been saying the whole time that we can spend more responsibly and pointing to our cash reserves and ability to spend privately within FFP rules this whole time and you've been arguing against me for that same time.

Now you want to claim that you want us to spend more responsibly?

Who said anything about chelsea or city level spending? Not f***ing me.

I've repeatedly pointed that they do spend what they are able to outside of self generated funds, I didnt say yeah let's go out and match them toe to toe.

That's a fallacy you guys have created by virtue of not being able to agree with anything I say even if it comes from your own sources.

Realistically, the sort of Corp or individual that will buy is will have money so long, they'll be able to clear any personal debt from kronke along with the value of the shares.

I'll keep saying what I'm saying until something changes, and right now, we have not made one senior signing and thats simply not good enough with 3 weeks left.

Soon teams start planning for life with our target because they csnt find a replacement or someone else comes in and offers what they have been asking for or the price goes up because now were desperate.

Weve lived this many times before and it's happening again.

The premise behind my argument has been that Kroenke HAS been letting the club spend a lot of money and the club have misused the funds and THAT is the reason we are where we are, NOT because Kronke has been penny pinching. We have 2 bigger issues to fix, the first is stop spending good money on mediocre players. The second is coach the team to improve their dreadful defensive displays. Neither of these will cost the club ANY MORE MONEY.

Once we have done this we can turn our attention to spending MORE MONEY. We need to move the problem to Kroneke being the delimiting factor. In my opinion we would be justified AT THAT POINT to criticise the level of investment from Kroenke.

We should be spending more than Wolves in net spend and I would back greater spending in that respect, but I don't want us to spunk away our money like eejuts
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:46 pm

Zedie wrote:Mane had a similar record before joining liverpool. Was he not worth it?

Put zaha into context. Hes a far superior player to anyone around him limited by those same players.

Hes exactly what we need in terms of pace, stretching teams, counter attacking.

Hes a goal threat, can work in tight spaces and is strong as a bull. Hes aggressive, something we are sorely lacking.

Although not his strongest ability, he can pick a pass and is more than capable of finding a man from the byline. Hes also confident enough to hit the target if theres no other options.

Hes also signed a 5 year contract last year hence his inflated price.

Hes also prem ready so should hit the ground running.

Regardless of whether we get him, we 100% need someone like him ie Everton, however a deal can be structured for zaha that may hit the mark.

Hes exactly what this team needs, but your hung up on I dont know what tbh. Maybe you can explain why he should be expected to be hitting 20-30 goals for a team like palace from the wings or why else he is not worth what?


Liverpool paid £34m for Mane! He also has a better record than Zaha because he managed more than 10 goals for Southampton in both his season and his numbers improved. Before Southampton he managed to score over goals 20 for Red Bull Salzburg. Small club and league but Zaha has never really had a season like that at any level even though he has played for Palace in the Championship. He also didn't do well when he got his move to a big club with Utd.

£34m for Mane. Palace are talking about £80m! It's no comparison.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Zedie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:07 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Zedie wrote:Mane had a similar record before joining liverpool. Was he not worth it?

Put zaha into context. Hes a far superior player to anyone around him limited by those same players.

Hes exactly what we need in terms of pace, stretching teams, counter attacking.

Hes a goal threat, can work in tight spaces and is strong as a bull. Hes aggressive, something we are sorely lacking.

Although not his strongest ability, he can pick a pass and is more than capable of finding a man from the byline. Hes also confident enough to hit the target if theres no other options.

Hes also signed a 5 year contract last year hence his inflated price.

Hes also prem ready so should hit the ground running.

Regardless of whether we get him, we 100% need someone like him ie Everton, however a deal can be structured for zaha that may hit the mark.

Hes exactly what this team needs, but your hung up on I dont know what tbh. Maybe you can explain why he should be expected to be hitting 20-30 goals for a team like palace from the wings or why else he is not worth what?


Liverpool paid £34m for Mane! He also has a better record than Zaha because he managed more than 10 goals for Southampton in both his season and his numbers improved. Before Southampton he managed to score over goals 20 for Red Bull Salzburg. Small club and league but Zaha has never really had a season like that at any level even though he has played for Palace in the Championship. He also didn't do well when he got his move to a big club with Utd.

£34m for Mane. Palace are talking about £80m! It's no comparison.



Mane - prem goals

2014/15 soton - 10 goals
2015/16 soton - 11 goals
2016/17 lpool - 13 goals
2017/18 lpool - 10 goals
2018/19 lpool - 22 goals

Zaha - prem goals

2014/15 CP - 4 goals
2015/16 CP - 2 goals
2016/17 CP - 7 goals
2017/18 CP- 9 goals
2018/19 CP- 10 goals

Mane was bought in 2016/17 season for that price. You neglected to take market inflation into account. Of course theres no comparison.

It's the same season we bought xhaka for 35m and mustafi for the same. Also the same season city bought sane for 45m and stones for 50m. Pogba also joined for 100m.

This season hazard has been sold for 100m with 1 year left on his contract.

You also mention man u where he made 4 appearances in 2013/14 season at 21 years old, before being sold back to palace as an indicator of how he will do at a big club in 2019 as a 26 year old.

You really dont think he can improve his numbers or what iwobi/mkhi can do for us right now?

You're really trying too hard to play zaha down.

Just look at what hes done to some of the top teams last season on his own, even against us as an indicator for what he can do in an absolutely average team.

As if he wont improve his numbers in front of Tierney and next to laca / auba on his right with ozil feeding balls in behind him.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:35 pm

I'm not going for the long winded stats breakdown. It's £34m vs £80m. Also, Liverpool play a style where they create goal scoring chances for fun. We don't.

Also you are proving my point so it's obviously not just me making something up out of thin air. I have yet heard you say that we shouldn't pay £80m for such a player. You're making a case in favour of spending that amount.

It's reckless. We're talking about a player that has never once hit 20 goals in a season but you're making a case for him because Liverpool bought Mane. It's not smart. It has nothing to do with market inflation either. There are no economic calculations involved. It's just silly conclusions clubs draw in an attempt to fleece a buyer. Such as if Zaha is worth £80m then Iwobi is worth at least £55m. It's rubbish but some fall for it.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Zedie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:23 pm

Power n Glory wrote:I'm not going for the long winded stats breakdown. It's £34m vs £80m. Also, Liverpool play a style where they create goal scoring chances for fun. We don't.

Also you are proving my point so it's obviously not just me making something up out of thin air. I have yet heard you say that we shouldn't pay £80m for such a player. You're making a case in favour of spending that amount.

It's reckless. We're talking about a player that has never once hit 20 goals in a season but you're making a case for him because Liverpool bought Mane. It's not smart. It has nothing to do with market inflation either. There are no economic calculations involved. It's just silly conclusions clubs draw in an attempt to fleece a buyer. Such as if Zaha is worth £80m then Iwobi is worth at least £55m. It's rubbish but some fall for it.


City signed aguero for 30m and liverpool bought coutinho for 8m tbf, we should be offering 15m for zaha lol.

How are you going to ignore inflation like that? Madness.

I wonder what you make of haller to west ham for 45m or ndombele to spurs for 60m.

Liverpool's play style is possible because they have mane and salah at wing forwards.

You think they could still play the same with iwobi and mkhi this season?

We need mane and salah type players to progress this team, it's pretty clear imo.

Zaha, everton tierney along with what we have would propel us into being able to play that kind of style.

Liverpool also have a pacey back 4 which allows them to set in shape defensively when they lose possession, hence why I've been banging on about our fullbacks for years. We currently have 1 in bellerin.

I'm making a case to spend what we need to to get the players that improve us.

80m is too much, I've said this enough times in many different ways, I'm not sure why you struggle so hard with this.

I've also pointed out about 10 times that CP have dropped their valuation by 20 odd million on another player ie bissaka theyve sold in the last 4 weeks ffs but you refuse to acknowledge that. Why keep banging on about 80m?

Zaha will probably go for 60m or not at all which personally I think is fair imo considering all his plus points.

And that's 60m chopped up however they want ie 20m upfront 40m over 2 years and bonuses etc.

This can happen but kronke is stopping this with his ridiculous budget.

I'm honestly baffled why you are so sure not spending is going to work after you've sat through project youth for a decade and ended up watching us struggle to 6th place 2 years on the trot.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:44 pm

Zedie...this is getting long. £60m on a player that flopped at Utd and barely scores more than 10 goals....cool.

When the transfermarket is over and the season is done, I'm certain we will find some players better than Zaha that went for a fraction of the price. It always happens.

I'd rather spend that sort of money on a winger that has the record to back up the fee. It's that simple. Someone already producing at high level for a smaller club. Splashing it on someone who you hope will sudden see a spike in output for that amount is too much of a gamble.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Zedie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:32 pm

Power n Glory wrote:Zedie...this is getting long. £60m on a player that flopped at Utd and barely scores more than 10 goals....cool.

When the transfermarket is over and the season is done, I'm certain we will find some players better than Zaha that went for a fraction of the price. It always happens.

I'd rather spend that sort of money on a winger that has the record to back up the fee. It's that simple. Someone already producing at high level for a smaller club. Splashing it on someone who you hope will sudden see a spike in output for that amount is too much of a gamble.


Whatever mate.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:28 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Zedie it is you that fail to address points. You regurgitate the same nonsense in every post then you make up fictional scenarios that are clearly not the case. Every question you have asked has been answered, its just bluster coming from you now.

Having seen that the mighty Wolves have over the past 3 years a higher net spend than us I think we SHOULD be spending more, we can bloody afford it. However, I do not want us to go down the route of Chelsea, Man U and Man City in spending silly money. Its not my money but I don't care. I wasn't us to do things the right way and a sustainable way. Chelsea are f***ked when Abramavich has had enough of his toy.


This is insanity.

I've been saying the whole time that we can spend more responsibly and pointing to our cash reserves and ability to spend privately within FFP rules this whole time and you've been arguing against me for that same time.

Now you want to claim that you want us to spend more responsibly?

Who said anything about chelsea or city level spending? Not f***ing me.

I've repeatedly pointed that they do spend what they are able to outside of self generated funds, I didnt say yeah let's go out and match them toe to toe.

That's a fallacy you guys have created by virtue of not being able to agree with anything I say even if it comes from your own sources.

Realistically, the sort of Corp or individual that will buy is will have money so long, they'll be able to clear any personal debt from kronke along with the value of the shares.

I'll keep saying what I'm saying until something changes, and right now, we have not made one senior signing and thats simply not good enough with 3 weeks left.

Soon teams start planning for life with our target because they csnt find a replacement or someone else comes in and offers what they have been asking for or the price goes up because now were desperate.

Weve lived this many times before and it's happening again.

The premise behind my argument has been that Kroenke HAS been letting the club spend a lot of money and the club have misused the funds and THAT is the reason we are where we are, NOT because Kronke has been penny pinching. We have 2 bigger issues to fix, the first is stop spending good money on mediocre players. The second is coach the team to improve their dreadful defensive displays. Neither of these will cost the club ANY MORE MONEY.

Once we have done this we can turn our attention to spending MORE MONEY. We need to move the problem to Kroneke being the delimiting factor. In my opinion we would be justified AT THAT POINT to criticise the level of investment from Kroenke.

We should be spending more than Wolves in net spend and I would back greater spending in that respect, but I don't want us to spunk away our money like eejuts


^Truth.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Losmeister » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:13 pm

long winded mf'ers
Kai Havertz nutmegged ur GK
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Zedie » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:00 pm

theHotHead wrote:The premise behind my argument has been that Kroenke HAS been letting the club spend a lot of money and the club have misused the funds and THAT is the reason we are where we are, NOT because Kronke has been penny pinching. We have 2 bigger issues to fix, the first is stop spending good money on mediocre players. The second is coach the team to improve their dreadful defensive displays. Neither of these will cost the club ANY MORE MONEY.

Once we have done this we can turn our attention to spending MORE MONEY. We need to move the problem to Kroneke being the delimiting factor. In my opinion we would be justified AT THAT POINT to criticise the level of investment from Kroenke.

We should be spending more than Wolves in net spend and I would back greater spending in that respect, but I don't want us to spunk away our money like eejuts


We will never see eye to eye on this.

You're arguing to stick to the self sustaining model that hasn't brought us major success ie PL or CL for 15 years, because the landscape has changed completely ie the rise of oil clubs and the slow build up of spurs and liverpool.

You're advocating for us to make money by sales to produce more money which is fine, but it doesnt cut it when we are so thin on assets to sell.

Bellerin
Auba
Lacazette
Iwobi - (young HG long contract).
Torriera
Guendouzi

Realistically could make us some proper corn. Otherwise, nothing.

These are our performers and if you start chipping at them, to be replaced with unknown cheap prospects, you degrade our ability to hit top 4 even further.

Theres plenty of money saved, or that can be put in but you are convinced that the more we spend the bigger the flop

The less we spend, the less we flop.

Theres no guarantees either way will work, but its much more likely that we collect young deadwood your way like jenkinson, elneny, etc.

We got rid of the one guy that is a literal master of finding young cheap talent in mislinstat but you want to stick with this method? Weve been doing it for decades and the decline has been steady over that time as weve compromised on so many signings and let so many others go because of your mentality.

Worst part is when you say spend more money, you essentially mean more self generated funds to emulate liverpool.

Their revival started way before klopp when they lucked out on sterling and more importantly suarez bought 2010/11 season and coutinho 2012/13.

Are you ready really ready to wait 9 years before we come up again? Its only really you, Jay and png that are on this nonsense.

What makes you think the other top 5 wont carry on becoming even stronger in that time? They're already well run or have enough money to cover any major mistake.

We arent actually that far off having a proper competitive squad with injury luck and itll be another 2-3 years until the whole squad is sick if we get every prospect and major signing right.

I honestly dont know why you think a slow build is less risky than adding a bit more cash to actually get the calibre we need in the positions we need as soon as.

Finally, you keep throwing in a super vague 'we need to train them more' reference but can never explain how you expect the same deadbeats in our squad will be trained out of making the same errors over and over again.

These deadbeats need to be cut loose and new players bought in to replace them. Not in 2027, f***ing asap. No amount of training can save them because they are simply not good enough for a top 4 side.

They need to be sold at a discount but that wont happen under your self sustaining system so they end up staying and continuing to f**k us up. How can you not see this?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:10 am

Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:The premise behind my argument has been that Kroenke HAS been letting the club spend a lot of money and the club have misused the funds and THAT is the reason we are where we are, NOT because Kronke has been penny pinching. We have 2 bigger issues to fix, the first is stop spending good money on mediocre players. The second is coach the team to improve their dreadful defensive displays. Neither of these will cost the club ANY MORE MONEY.

Once we have done this we can turn our attention to spending MORE MONEY. We need to move the problem to Kroneke being the delimiting factor. In my opinion we would be justified AT THAT POINT to criticise the level of investment from Kroenke.

We should be spending more than Wolves in net spend and I would back greater spending in that respect, but I don't want us to spunk away our money like eejuts


You're arguing to stick to the self sustaining model that hasn't brought us major success ie PL or CL for 15 years, because the landscape has changed completely ie the rise of oil clubs and the slow build up of spurs and liverpool.

You're advocating for us to make money by sales to produce more money which is fine, but it doesnt cut it when we are so thin on assets to sell.



And thus, in two sentences you completely destroyed your own pages and pages long argument. Thanks.
So slow build up works and the mess we are in is not Kroenke's fault (unless you are blaming him for which players his money has been used to buy, lol).

I said before that you were almost there, but now your own words confirms you finally, at last, understand. Took you long enough.

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