Rob Holding joins Crystal Palace

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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby Goonerred » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:05 pm

Highbury Hillbilly wrote:He signed a new deal last year, so we've done what was needed to 'protect his value'.

I'm desperate to have him sold; Newcastle would be ideal. We get money for a striker, he gets a 5-year contract and retires when he's 31.

Does he have much value?
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby KG3 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:55 am

I find it funny that people comment on how bad Holding is and yet praise White, to me they have the same level of defensive ability, honestly if Ben white wasn’t good at passing and building from the back, can most of say you’d rate him highly or rate him at all?
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby Rockape » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:21 am

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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:30 am

Rockape wrote:https://www.thickaccent.com/2021/12/21/twitter-reacts-as-balding-rob-holding-rocks-full-head-of-hair/


Greatest come back of all time... just beats out Ali, Fury and Tiger Woods.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby Goonerred » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:18 pm

KG3 wrote:I find it funny that people comment on how bad Holding is and yet praise White, to me they have the same level of defensive ability, honestly if Ben white wasn’t good at passing and building from the back, can most of say you’d rate him highly or rate him at all?

I've never praised White or said he was bad, I'm giving him a chance.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:33 pm

Goonerred wrote:
KG3 wrote:I find it funny that people comment on how bad Holding is and yet praise White, to me they have the same level of defensive ability, honestly if Ben white wasn’t good at passing and building from the back, can most of say you’d rate him highly or rate him at all?

I've never praised White or said he was bad, I'm giving him a chance.



So far he's done well - as part of a back 5 that has made us far more difficult to break down and far less prone to error.
It's a team game and the unit of the back 5 is a critical one within that team.

How good (or bad) he is as an individual matters far less than the collective.
If he's right for the role in that back 5 that Arteta wanted and it's working well with Gabriel and Tomiyasu either side of him (and Ramsdale behind him) then he's good and shares in the credit of the group.

I've seen the best defenders in the world look rubbish in games because collectively the back 5 was all over the place - and I've seen a back 5 of decent defenders (but not stars) be brilliant collectively.

You only need to look at our best defence ever of Dixon, Winterburn, Adams and Bould/Keown. None of them were individually brilliant. They operated as a unit with great understanding, superb character and great communication.

As for Holding? I think he's suffered in the past from playing in a back 5 that was simply all over the place and he looked awful. To his credit he's actually looked better on the occasions he has played this year, but still our defence doesn't look quite as good with him in it as compared to White and Gabriel in the middle. IMO that is because Gabriel is one tough SOB and his no BS approach works well with White's more ball playing approach. Holding doesn't offer the same balance when playing with White.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby Goonerred » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:51 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
KG3 wrote:I find it funny that people comment on how bad Holding is and yet praise White, to me they have the same level of defensive ability, honestly if Ben white wasn’t good at passing and building from the back, can most of say you’d rate him highly or rate him at all?

I've never praised White or said he was bad, I'm giving him a chance.



So far he's done well - as part of a back 5 that has made us far more difficult to break down and far less prone to error.
It's a team game and the unit of the back 5 is a critical one within that team.

How good (or bad) he is as an individual matters far less than the collective.
If he's right for the role in that back 5 that Arteta wanted and it's working well with Gabriel and Tomiyasu either side of him (and Ramsdale behind him) then he's good and shares in the credit of the group.

I've seen the best defenders in the world look rubbish in games because collectively the back 5 was all over the place - and I've seen a back 5 of decent defenders (but not stars) be brilliant collectively.

You only need to look at our best defence ever of Dixon, Winterburn, Adams and Bould/Keown. None of them were individually brilliant. They operated as a unit with great understanding, superb character and great communication.

As for Holding? I think he's suffered in the past from playing in a back 5 that was simply all over the place and he looked awful. To his credit he's actually looked better on the occasions he has played this year, but still our defence doesn't look quite as good with him in it as compared to White and Gabriel in the middle. IMO that is because Gabriel is one tough SOB and his no BS approach works well with White's more ball playing approach. Holding doesn't offer the same balance when playing with White.

Compare Holding with Tomi. He's the real deal in my opinion, on what we've seen so far. Holding looks like a lost five- -year- old half the time. (Especially now he's got his hair back and looks a bit younger.)
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:54 pm

KG3 wrote:I find it funny that people comment on how bad Holding is and yet praise White, to me they have the same level of defensive ability, honestly if Ben white wasn’t good at passing and building from the back, can most of say you’d rate him highly or rate him at all?

No, thats why I said we paid far too much for him. The passing ability is made into somewhat of a big deal at the moment but to be honest because the focus has shifted from just being a big lump at the back to stop people there are loads more ball playing CBs. So why we had to spend £50m on one is a mystery, could've spent £20m max and got the same!
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:59 pm

theHotHead wrote:
KG3 wrote:I find it funny that people comment on how bad Holding is and yet praise White, to me they have the same level of defensive ability, honestly if Ben white wasn’t good at passing and building from the back, can most of say you’d rate him highly or rate him at all?

No, thats why I said we paid far too much for him. The passing ability is made into somewhat of a big deal at the moment but to be honest because the focus has shifted from just being a big lump at the back to stop people there are loads more ball playing CBs. So why we had to spend £50m on one is a mystery, could've spent £20m max and got the same!


Don't be silly. £20m?
We sold Willock for £25m :biggrin:

Our entire back 5 has been a massive success. If you had said to me a year ago that we'd spend £90m for a solid defence, I'd have bitten your hand off.
In fact the entire back 5 is what, £140m. That's f***ing brilliant business.
Is White worth £50m? Who knows and who cares. Our defence is, for the first time in a long time, organised and solid.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:49 pm

Reiss wrote:White is in a different league to Holding.

Holding is stiff and limited.

White is dynamic, agile and a modern day defender by all definitions.


He's also younger with the capacity to improve. We talk about White being poor in the air but I think Holding is worse. Besides being stiff, slow and limited, his awareness sometimes is shocking.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:03 pm

To be fair Holding only cost 2 million, White cost 50 million.

Never rated Holding but he was cheap, White isn’t cheap but he’s not that good either. At 50 million he should be a top notch defender, based on what we’ve seen, he isn’t.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:17 pm

Reiss wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Reiss wrote:White is in a different league to Holding.

Holding is stiff and limited.

White is dynamic, agile and a modern day defender by all definitions.


He's also younger with the capacity to improve. We talk about White being poor in the air but I think Holding is worse. Besides being stiff, slow and limited, his awareness sometimes is shocking.


Holding wouldn't get into many premiership teams. He's a championship player.



I think Holding is a lower half PL defender. White is top class for the role he has been asked to play for Arsenal. Not sure there is anyone in the PL who can do it better. That's why we worked so hard to sign him and it's paid big dividends so far.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:47 pm

There’s better CBS for 50 million for sure.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby ag6789 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:20 pm

Holding did well initially. Think he would be ok w/ Gabby ( more mobile) on his side. His anticipation and covering small area and heading ability is fine.
White on the other hand is versatile and is capable of filling 3 positions ( CB, DM and RB).
Now that we are short of CMs he should be used as a DM, and allow Holding to play behind him. We should be competitive against tough teams that way.
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Re: Rob Holding (16)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:26 pm

Salibatelli wrote:There’s better CBS for 50 million for sure.


Who is better than White for the role he plays in our back 4 for less than £50m?
Let me guess.. SaLIbA? :rofll:
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