Kieran Tierney (3)

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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby StockGooner » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:35 pm

theHotHead wrote:You say that but I don't agree at all. Look at Emi compared to Leno, the difference in how much they talk to the players in front of them is like night and day. Emi barks out orders, there are load of players that are really vocal. Liverpool have Henderson who is very vocal. Chelsea have Cesar Aspilicueta who I wouldn't say is OTT but he is no shrinking violet. Man U have Maguire, no way you can tell me he doesn't bark at people. Ok, I wouldn't say Kane at Spurs is a barker, Seamus Coleman at Everton, I dunno. Wes Morgan at Leicester is a shouter as is Johnny Evans. Conor Coady and Willy Boly at Wolves are forever shouting at people. Grealish isn't a shouter, Lascelles at Newcastle is though ! Mark Noble at West Ham is an old school shouter, Lewis Dunk shouts a lot, James Ward-Prowse I dunno, Milivojevic - I'm not sure, Cairney at Fulham - no idea, Liam cooper at Leeds - no idea, Billy sharp at Sheff Utd - no idea, Ben Mee - no idea - I thought Tarkowski was captain and he shouts a lot but he isn't apparently. Finally we have West Brom - Jake Livermore is old school too and he shouts a lot.


What's the point in 'barking' if you don't know what you're talking about? Why do we care what Lascelles does? Or Cairney? You have to bark to be a captain? Rubbish

Why have you listed the Prem captains? And comapred to Leno and Emi? Weird post
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:02 pm

StockGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:You say that but I don't agree at all. Look at Emi compared to Leno, the difference in how much they talk to the players in front of them is like night and day. Emi barks out orders, there are load of players that are really vocal. Liverpool have Henderson who is very vocal. Chelsea have Cesar Aspilicueta who I wouldn't say is OTT but he is no shrinking violet. Man U have Maguire, no way you can tell me he doesn't bark at people. Ok, I wouldn't say Kane at Spurs is a barker, Seamus Coleman at Everton, I dunno. Wes Morgan at Leicester is a shouter as is Johnny Evans. Conor Coady and Willy Boly at Wolves are forever shouting at people. Grealish isn't a shouter, Lascelles at Newcastle is though ! Mark Noble at West Ham is an old school shouter, Lewis Dunk shouts a lot, James Ward-Prowse I dunno, Milivojevic - I'm not sure, Cairney at Fulham - no idea, Liam cooper at Leeds - no idea, Billy sharp at Sheff Utd - no idea, Ben Mee - no idea - I thought Tarkowski was captain and he shouts a lot but he isn't apparently. Finally we have West Brom - Jake Livermore is old school too and he shouts a lot.


What's the point in 'barking' if you don't know what you're talking about? Why do we care what Lascelles does? Or Cairney? You have to bark to be a captain? Rubbish

Why have you listed the Prem captains? And comapred to Leno and Emi? Weird post


Captains organise and motivate, handling each player individually, building up relationships with players and getting know what makes them tick.
They are a voice for the younger players or those players that are a little more withdrawn. They are demanding and fair. When things are going wrong on the pitch they are able to reorganise and communicate clear messages to players. Being vocal is required, but in a clear and easy to understand way - not just shouting rubbish.
We haven't had a good captain in a long time - in fact, we've had a series of lousy captains for a long time. Seems we pick the stars as captains - rarely is that the correct move.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby StockGooner » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:12 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
StockGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:You say that but I don't agree at all. Look at Emi compared to Leno, the difference in how much they talk to the players in front of them is like night and day. Emi barks out orders, there are load of players that are really vocal. Liverpool have Henderson who is very vocal. Chelsea have Cesar Aspilicueta who I wouldn't say is OTT but he is no shrinking violet. Man U have Maguire, no way you can tell me he doesn't bark at people. Ok, I wouldn't say Kane at Spurs is a barker, Seamus Coleman at Everton, I dunno. Wes Morgan at Leicester is a shouter as is Johnny Evans. Conor Coady and Willy Boly at Wolves are forever shouting at people. Grealish isn't a shouter, Lascelles at Newcastle is though ! Mark Noble at West Ham is an old school shouter, Lewis Dunk shouts a lot, James Ward-Prowse I dunno, Milivojevic - I'm not sure, Cairney at Fulham - no idea, Liam cooper at Leeds - no idea, Billy sharp at Sheff Utd - no idea, Ben Mee - no idea - I thought Tarkowski was captain and he shouts a lot but he isn't apparently. Finally we have West Brom - Jake Livermore is old school too and he shouts a lot.


What's the point in 'barking' if you don't know what you're talking about? Why do we care what Lascelles does? Or Cairney? You have to bark to be a captain? Rubbish

Why have you listed the Prem captains? And comapred to Leno and Emi? Weird post


Captains organise and motivate, handling each player individually, building up relationships with players and getting know what makes them tick.
They are a voice for the younger players or those players that are a little more withdrawn. They are demanding and fair. When things are going wrong on the pitch they are able to reorganise and communicate clear messages to players. Being vocal is required, but in a clear and easy to understand way - not just shouting rubbish.
We haven't had a good captain in a long time - in fact, we've had a series of lousy captains for a long time. Seems we pick the stars as captains - rarely is that the correct move.


You two work in tandem. I don't get the point HH was making or what point you are making in the first half of your post. Just because you say words, doesn't mean you're saying anything useful.

"Captains organise and motivate, handling each player individually, building up relationships with players and getting know what makes them tick." Do they have to be barking in order to do this? No.

Tierney might not be vocal, but he is a leader by example and I we miss this. You do say we've had lousy captains and I agree there. I think vocality is absolute nonsense though. Xhaka is vocal but would I want him as my captain? No, because there's no example. Listing the Prem captains? what did this prove?
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:43 pm

StockGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StockGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:You say that but I don't agree at all. Look at Emi compared to Leno, the difference in how much they talk to the players in front of them is like night and day. Emi barks out orders, there are load of players that are really vocal. Liverpool have Henderson who is very vocal. Chelsea have Cesar Aspilicueta who I wouldn't say is OTT but he is no shrinking violet. Man U have Maguire, no way you can tell me he doesn't bark at people. Ok, I wouldn't say Kane at Spurs is a barker, Seamus Coleman at Everton, I dunno. Wes Morgan at Leicester is a shouter as is Johnny Evans. Conor Coady and Willy Boly at Wolves are forever shouting at people. Grealish isn't a shouter, Lascelles at Newcastle is though ! Mark Noble at West Ham is an old school shouter, Lewis Dunk shouts a lot, James Ward-Prowse I dunno, Milivojevic - I'm not sure, Cairney at Fulham - no idea, Liam cooper at Leeds - no idea, Billy sharp at Sheff Utd - no idea, Ben Mee - no idea - I thought Tarkowski was captain and he shouts a lot but he isn't apparently. Finally we have West Brom - Jake Livermore is old school too and he shouts a lot.


What's the point in 'barking' if you don't know what you're talking about? Why do we care what Lascelles does? Or Cairney? You have to bark to be a captain? Rubbish

Why have you listed the Prem captains? And comapred to Leno and Emi? Weird post


Captains organise and motivate, handling each player individually, building up relationships with players and getting know what makes them tick.
They are a voice for the younger players or those players that are a little more withdrawn. They are demanding and fair. When things are going wrong on the pitch they are able to reorganise and communicate clear messages to players. Being vocal is required, but in a clear and easy to understand way - not just shouting rubbish.
We haven't had a good captain in a long time - in fact, we've had a series of lousy captains for a long time. Seems we pick the stars as captains - rarely is that the correct move.


You two work in tandem. I don't get the point HH was making or what point you are making in the first half of your post. Just because you say words, doesn't mean you're saying anything useful.

"Captains organise and motivate, handling each player individually, building up relationships with players and getting know what makes them tick." Do they have to be barking in order to do this? No.

Tierney might not be vocal, but he is a leader by example and I we miss this. You do say we've had lousy captains and I agree there. I think vocality is absolute nonsense though. Xhaka is vocal but would I want him as my captain? No, because there's no example. Listing the Prem captains? what did this prove?


I didn't use the term 'barking'. I disagree with you entirely that a captain doesn't have to be vocal. They are not a Captain without being able to communicate both on and off the pitch.
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby swipe right » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:27 pm

Three qualities a captain must have:
1. Start every game when fit
2. Be technically good enough to organize the team on the pitch
3. Be the link between the team and management in the dressing room

Tierney has point 1 but not sure about 2 or 3 just yet.
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby Ach » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:30 pm

Wasn't he full time captain at Celtic?

Or was that just filling in for whoever their normal captain is?

Not really fussed if he is here. He has more important things to do
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby Callum » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:57 pm

Ach wrote:Wasn't he full time captain at Celtic?

Or was that just filling in for whoever their normal captain is?

Not really fussed if he is here. He has more important things to do

He wasn't the club captain; that was and is Scott Brown. However, he was given the armband despite being only 19/20 at the time.
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby starmandb » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:51 am

Callum wrote:
Ach wrote:Wasn't he full time captain at Celtic?

Or was that just filling in for whoever their normal captain is?

Not really fussed if he is here. He has more important things to do

He wasn't the club captain; that was and is Scott Brown. However, he was given the armband despite being only 19/20 at the time.

He captained his national side for a game against the Dutch when he was 20 as well
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby theHotHead » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:49 am

Callum wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Dejan wrote:How is this guy captain material?
He doesnt seem to talk at all



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Lead by example not by running off your mouth.

Sick of seeing Luiz bark orders at people, then next minute he's giving away a penalty and a red card.

Exaggerate much.

Tierney is a good player, but he has not shown he is a leader at all, playing consistently well does not = Leadership quality.

Would you not agree that he leads by example?

Leading by example is NOT enough to be a leader. I work with some studious and very clever chaps, the quality of their work is outstanding. If I asked them to lead they would be lost, they have average to poor communication skills, they have no clue how to motivate others, they have to form a committee to make decisions, some of them are scared of confrontation.

They would be terrible leaders, but I would have an army of them working for me all day every day of the week !
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby theHotHead » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:00 pm

StockGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:You say that but I don't agree at all. Look at Emi compared to Leno, the difference in how much they talk to the players in front of them is like night and day. Emi barks out orders, there are load of players that are really vocal. Liverpool have Henderson who is very vocal. Chelsea have Cesar Aspilicueta who I wouldn't say is OTT but he is no shrinking violet. Man U have Maguire, no way you can tell me he doesn't bark at people. Ok, I wouldn't say Kane at Spurs is a barker, Seamus Coleman at Everton, I dunno. Wes Morgan at Leicester is a shouter as is Johnny Evans. Conor Coady and Willy Boly at Wolves are forever shouting at people. Grealish isn't a shouter, Lascelles at Newcastle is though ! Mark Noble at West Ham is an old school shouter, Lewis Dunk shouts a lot, James Ward-Prowse I dunno, Milivojevic - I'm not sure, Cairney at Fulham - no idea, Liam cooper at Leeds - no idea, Billy sharp at Sheff Utd - no idea, Ben Mee - no idea - I thought Tarkowski was captain and he shouts a lot but he isn't apparently. Finally we have West Brom - Jake Livermore is old school too and he shouts a lot.


What's the point in 'barking' if you don't know what you're talking about? Why do we care what Lascelles does? Or Cairney? You have to bark to be a captain? Rubbish

Why have you listed the Prem captains? And compared to Leno and Emi? Weird post

I know Jay already has answered thi but I am going to pretend he hasn't, I haven't read what he wrote.

The relevance of the Emi/Leno comparison is the difference being vocal makes to those around you, for example, as a keeper it is vitally important, thats why the defence looked more assured with Emi than they do with Leno. You can see Emi doing the same at Aston Villa, you can't tell me he hasn't made a big difference there.

You say whats the point of barking if you are barking rubbish ? Who barks rubbish ? Do you hear what those captains are saying to the players ? Why do you say they are barking rubbish ? And if you read what I wrote you would understand it was in reference to the comment that there are not many players like that around in football, I listed all of those captains to prove that, actually, there are loads of them. I said being vocal was the best. So if you are going to argue with me know where you stand bredda.

If you have played football you would know the difference having a vocal captain makes compared to a quiet captain. On the pitch in the heat of the battle you need a vocal captain, geeing up players, rollicking players, consoling players and doing his job. Anyone who says otherwise has never played the game at any kind of level where having a captain makes a difference. If you think players are robots who all go out and give 100% every time you are as clueless as your post makes you sound.
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby StockGooner » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:20 pm

Sigh. Doesn't read the full story yet comments. At least Jay takes time to read posts, then make points even if I disagree with him on some.

I'll help you though. In order to have a discussion, you need PEC. Point, Example, Comment. Your original argument lacked an actual point and whilst it had plenty of examples there was no comment. You reeled off those captains, separating them into vocal (55%), non vocal (10%) and don't know (35% - So 35% of your data is useless. Well done you). But then so what? Are those 55% good captains? You ask me why I think they're barking rubbish. I could flip the question and ask you; Do you know they are barking smart stuff?

I'm saying barking orders isn't always required IMO (Point). Joe Hart one of the gobbiest keepers around. What could he tell Vincent Kompany to do? Not a lot unless it's to watch his back as someone is on his blind side. He can't tell him to stand up, or dive in, he's not a defender (Example). To take Jays point, captains are needed because: "Captains organise and motivate, handling each player individually, building up relationships with players and getting know what makes them tick." Well a captain can do that via a quiet word during a corner or a throw in. In fact isn't that smarter and more tactical? If you're right back is getting done every time, then have a quiet word and say "Show the winger inside and I'll cover you". you don't bark that though do you? You say it quietly or guess what, the winger hears you (Second example). Therefore I don't see the need for it be absolutely vocalised so the whole staidum can hear, you're doing it so you get the attention of the person you want to listen, not bravado to appease the fans (Comment).

Ps, you used the term bredda, therefore you're lucky to even get a response since education seems to be lacking on your part.
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby theHotHead » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:52 pm

Hahaha, if you think using slang words reduces people to be "lacking in education" you are a bigger fool than I suspected - and expectations were already pretty low based on your previous post. Well done sir, you have outdone yourself :clap:

Now to take apart your poorly put together post.

"Context", its a simple word. You claim my original argument lacked an actual point. No it didn't, you are just too stupid to understand what I wrote. Some background. Dejan asked how KT was captain material because he "doesn't seem to talk at all". DG responded by saying he leads by example and that he was "sick of seeing Luiz bark orders then give away a penalty". Dejan responded by saying "that is not enough" i.e. leading by example is not enough to be a leader/captain. Callum then responded with "the days of dominating personalities are mostly gone and I'm not sure we will find many players who are" and "Tierney is not massively vocal but he leads by example".

At that point in the discussion I responded by saying "I didn't agree" - I don't agree that there are not many dominating personalities/vocal players left in the game. I then made a simple comparison close to home, Emi who is very vocal and Leno who isn't very vocal. Then to highlight my point further I went through every club in the Premier League and listed their captains and commented on how vocal they are.

So lets be clear about this, the discussion was centred on vocal players, players that bark out instructions to other players. By providing the list I backed up my comment that, in fact, there are plenty of vocal players in the league. Of the 20 clubs in the league I listed 9 of them whose captains are vocal. 7 I didn't know so couldn't comment, 2 I said were definitely not vocal. I missed out Man City, Fernandinho, I don't know. Its not looking good so far for the definite non vocals versus definitely vocal captains regarding numbers.

But but but, my post lacked an actual point, according to you :naughty:

You then question the impact of my analysis and claimed 35% of it was useless, well, only if your brain is incapable of looking at data, patterns and probability. If I confirmed, according to your numbers, that 55% of the captains in the English Premier League are vocal, it proves my point that there are plenty of vocal captains around and that Callum was wrong. It shows that only 10% were confirmed as not being vocal which shows that non vocal captains in the EPL are in a very small minority. Where the remaining 35% sit is irrelevant because my point has already been made, but using probability, looking at the situation, the EPL where the speed and the physicality is not like other leagues and where emphasis on captains through all levels of senior football in this country heavily gravitates to leaders/dominant vocal characters, there is a strong chance that a high number of the 35% are also vocal.

You ask if those 55% are good captains ? Shouting by itself does not make you a good captain, but the chances are far more good captains shout than those that don't shout. Based on the football I have played every single captain for the 4 semi-pro clubs I played at shouted. They shouted to get you in position, they shouted in the changing room to gee you up, they shouted if you did something stupid or if you were lazy, they encouraged you if you made a mistake, they jumped in to confrontations and defended their players. They got "stuck in" when the going got tough. Thats the job description of a football captain right there. They never bark rubbish, thats why they are captains. The fact you asked that question tells me you actually don't know what you are talking about.

Your Joe Hart example is a pointless one. Goalkeepers shout a lot, Leno is more an exception than the rule, they have to shout a lot. but Joe Hart wasnt the captain, Kompany was, the only thing Joe Hart could tell Kompany was about positioning. In any case, you don't need to be the best player on the pitch to be a good captain, just like you don't nbeed to have been good at football to make a top coach/manager.

Of course Hart can tell Kompany to stand up, Hart has the best view of whats around Kompany, you don't need to be an experienced footballer to be able to tell an experienced footballer what to do in certain situations. Its not like Hart is a salesman shouting stuff at Kompany, he is an experienced footballer, he knows what will happen if Kompany dives in, in a specific situaton, given that he has a better view of the wider area. Which is why when you play football communication is drilled into you, talking is drilled into you, they do drills based on communication on the pitch.

Nothing I have written is rocket science, its all common sense.
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby alexafc12 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:40 pm

Who was the pubber telling us to sell him :rofll: :rofll: :rofll: :rofll:
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby themessiah » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:46 pm

Put Reguilon to shame
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Re: Kieran Tierney (3)

Postby Callum » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:05 am

TIERNEEEYYYYYYYY

had that mug Doherty on toast

:hail: :hail: :hail:
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