Super Jacky Wilshere

[EliteKiller]

Interesting that even after watching him for a decade his own fans can't agree on what he does ... I reckon there is a world class player in there somewhere (and I'm no Jack fan) but I reckon his career has been miss-managed so badly he will never fulfill his potential ... a victim of Wonger ....

Some players need to be told what to do, having a manager who just lets you 'express yourself' hasn't worked for Jack .... he could be a Dele, KDB, Coutinho, Hazard he's shown he has the skill set .... somebody just needed to coach him how to do it .... and how to tackle properly!

Still time if a good manger gets him by the balls ........

[thebigbangtheo]

@DiamondGooner - I think you need to follow your own advice.
I will debate anything football with anyone reasonable. I don't think my opinions are more relevant than anyone else's but I can at least justify my comments by the fact that I am a level 3 qualified coach, have managed 3 teams over a 13 year period winning a total of 10 trophies including league titles but most importantly, I understand the mechanics of building a football team as well as tactics, formations (including our famous W M) and positional play. I never played as a semi-pro but got to a half decent amateur level in both Saturday league (red triangle) and Sunday league (West Yorkshire league). In my youthful days I played football with David Batty, Don Goodman, Brian Deane, Chippy Watson (Walsall fans) and Terry Conner.

[Goonerz]

Glad he will be back in a few days. I thought it was going to be the same old out for 9 months to a year.
Hope we can play a midfield 3.. That is stagnant wengers best formation.

[Goonerz]

WOW..amazing to see that only a few weeks ago there were so many negative comments about Jack being finished and no longer possessing the attributes that set him apart, such as his instant turn of pace and ability to twist and turn out of trouble. Similar egg on face scenario's for all those whose logic determined we wanted to sell him to Bournemouth and couldn't understand the practical purpose and benefit of his loan.
Nothing wrong with being wrong, it just gets me how nobody has held their hand up yet to admit it. I suppose it's just easier to see and comment on other people's perceived failings and mistakes rather than our own.

If you honestly believe the performances Jack has put in are even remotely close to a top EPL central midfield player KDB - Coutinho - Hazard - Eriksen then you're deluded .... he's look half decent compared to the utter garbage around him but that's about it ....

and guess what ... he's injured himself through overextending and going over on his ankle ... self inflicted .... yet again

Let's hope it's nothing serious because heaven knows we need him ... but if you think a team with Jack running the midfield is ever going to challenge for serious trophies ... you're out with the fairies ....

Just to nail the 'top contribution' claim, in his last ten games he's played 817 minutes, he's scored 2 goals and had 2 assists, he's also picked up 3 bookings ....

KDB last ten - 3 goals 4 assists 1 booking
Coutinho last ten - 7 goals 4 assists 0 bookings
Eriksen last ten - 2 goals 4 assists 0 bookings

So in Jack's 'best spell for three years' as Wonger put it let's not delude ourselves, he's still coming up short of the very top drawer .... we need better if we ever want to get back to being an elite side ....

This guy just labelled Hazard, KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen etc as Central midfielders (CMs). Aren’t they attacking midfielders or sometimes play as wingers?
Smh

[EliteKiller]

This guy just labelled Hazard, KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen etc as Central midfielders (CMs). Aren’t they attacking midfielders or sometimes play as wingers?
Smh

This guy can't read beyond the first sentence .... knee-jerk posters you've gotta laugh .......

[elkanofan]

This guy just labelled Hazard, KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen etc as Central midfielders (CMs). Aren’t they attacking midfielders or sometimes play as wingers?
Smh

This guy can't read beyond the first sentence .... knee-jerk posters you've gotta laugh .......

Nahh he's right.

Coutinho is not and never has been defined as a central midfielder. Attacking midfielder and attacker/second striker sometimes but he's not a central mid.

De Bruyne has become more of a central mid albeit heavily attack minded and Eriksen even when playing central mid has no defensive acumen whatsoever.

None of the three you mentioned can play in a deep midfield position like Jack did in 2010-11! All the players you mentioned were developed as either attacking mids or coutinho as a attacker/winger second striker in the hole etc..

Jack has very poor defensive positioning but his tackling and defensive workrate is still better than Eriksen and Coutinho combined and probably doubled. For Jack to become World class he needs to work heavily on his discipline in positioning and when he dribbles, he needs to cut out crashing into players. He got it in terms of passing, no doubt!

[theHotHead]

Jack is NOT a deep lying play maker ffs, he's CM at best, if anything he plays more like a CAM skill wise.

He's been playing CAM in the Europa and now he's playing CM which is his two best positions.

Deep lying play maker is a Xabi Alonso, Arteta or Pirlo, someone who anchors the midfield and plays long balls or passes from that position.

Wilshere is all up in that final third and certainly doesn't anchor.

Diamond, exactly spot on, Jack is absolutely not a deep lying playmaker, never has been and never will be. Fabregas when he played for Arsenal was exactly that. Jack is more box to box than deep lying.

I think people confuse the role. KDB is not a deep lying playmaker either, he may pick up the ball deep but he is often found in the final third too.

I think Jack's best position is the free role where he can pick up the ball deep and move the ball forwards or can burst past midfielders and then commit defenders. Its the reason why he cannot defend and should not be played in any kind of holding/defensive role. We should take advantage of his ability to beat players and have him further up the pitch.

[theHotHead]

Interesting that even after watching him for a decade his own fans can't agree on what he does ... I reckon there is a world class player in there somewhere (and I'm no Jack fan) but I reckon his career has been miss-managed so badly he will never fulfill his potential ... a victim of Wonger ....

Some players need to be told what to do, having a manager who just lets you 'express yourself' hasn't worked for Jack .... he could be a Dele, KDB, Coutinho, Hazard he's shown he has the skill set .... somebody just needed to coach him how to do it .... and how to tackle properly!

Still time if a good manger gets him by the balls ........

Please please stop boosting Dele Alli, a more overrated player I cannot find. Alli is average ! He had a stellar goal scoring season but is bang average otherwise.

[theHotHead]

@DiamondGooner - I think you need to follow your own advice.
I will debate anything football with anyone reasonable. I don't think my opinions are more relevant than anyone else's but I can at least justify my comments by the fact that I am a level 3 qualified coach, have managed 3 teams over a 13 year period winning a total of 10 trophies including league titles but most importantly, I understand the mechanics of building a football team as well as tactics, formations (including our famous W M) and positional play. I never played as a semi-pro but got to a half decent amateur level in both Saturday league (red triangle) and Sunday league (West Yorkshire league). In my youthful days I played football with David Batty, Don Goodman, Brian Deane, Chippy Watson (Walsall fans) and Terry Conner.

Errr .... you have coaching qualifications so you think your comments are justified ? No disrespect but its because of shite, backwards coaches that grass roots English football is the pathetic mess that it is.

The fact that you claim Ericsson is an attacking midfielder suggests your knowledge of football isn't quite what you think it might be. Look at his heat maps and you will see he operates in thirds 2 and 3 - typical of a central midfielder - albeit not a box to box midfielder - which Ericsson is not either. Ericsson is simply a CM. The fact you call Jack a deep lying play maker also gives doubt about your knowledge. If you look at Jack Wilshere's heat maps they are similar to Ericsson's, the difference being Wilshere covers more of the pitch - he is certainly not deep lying as you suggest. He tends to spend more time in the opponent's half than his own. That is not the attribute of a deep lying play maker.

[EliteKiller]

So we now call Jack a "Deep Lying Midfield" player .... why? look at any of his positional maps and he's in no way 'deep lying' he very rarely if ever plays in our back third, he covers a lot of ground left, right and makes forward runs ... how the feck is that 'deep lying' .....

FYI this is us playing left to right, was this against some mickey mouse side? .... no it was against Man City in 2014 one of Jack's best games ...

Now let's look at a more recent game ... this year v Liverpool



again we're playing left to right .... that's one hell of a heat map for a "deep lying midfield" player .....

Creating a role that Jack doesn't play to justify his lack of assists and goals is desperate stuff .... Jack is not and never has been a defensive midfield player he's a CM and in fact more suited to being an AM ..... he's just been very badly handled .......

[Marsbar100]

So we now call Jack a "Deep Lying Midfield" player .... why? look at any of his positional maps and he's in no way 'deep lying' he very rarely if ever plays in our back third, he covers a lot of ground left, right and makes forward runs ... how the feck is that 'deep lying' .....

FYI this is us playing left to right, was this against some mickey mouse side? .... no it was against Man City in 2014 one of Jack's best games ...

Now let's look at a more recent game ... this year v Liverpool



again we're playing left to right .... that's one hell of a heat map for a "deep lying midfield" player .....

Creating a role that Jack doesn't play to justify his lack of assists and goals is desperate stuff .... Jack is not and never has been a defensive midfield player he's a CM and in fact more suited to being an AM ..... he's just been very badly handled .......

If we are dominating games we will mainly be in the oppositions half, if we play Barcelona, ozil's heat map will be in our half does that mean he isn't an attacking player all of a sudden


He does go forward but he isn't as offensive as coutinho, hazard Erickson imo

[Losmeister]

you guys are comparing him to players who actually have significant prodcution in goals and assists...

not something that favors JW

[Arsenal Tone]

Position wise he’s more of a Cazorla type.

[Goonerz]

So we now call Jack a "Deep Lying Midfield" player .... why? look at any of his positional maps and he's in no way 'deep lying' he very rarely if ever plays in our back third, he covers a lot of ground left, right and makes forward runs ... how the feck is that 'deep lying' .....

FYI this is us playing left to right, was this against some mickey mouse side? .... no it was against Man City in 2014 one of Jack's best games ...

Now let's look at a more recent game ... this year v Liverpool



again we're playing left to right .... that's one hell of a heat map for a "deep lying midfield" player .....

Creating a role that Jack doesn't play to justify his lack of assists and goals is desperate stuff .... Jack is not and never has been a defensive midfield player he's a CM and in fact more suited to being an AM ..... he's just been very badly handled .......

Your heat maps show that wilshere is a central midfielder (CM). He hardly ever enters the oppositions’ penalty area. Compare ozil, coutinho, Eriksen, Hazards heat maps to Wilshere’s. I bet you will see a lot of green in and around the oppositions penelty box for those players, as they are Attacking midfielders compared to wilshere a CM.

Wilshere is a CM / sometimes a deep lying midfielder. He collects the ball from our defense or DM and transitions it. I think his style of play is comparable to Dembele of Spurs. Glide past players in midfield and get the ball to the ozil’s, Dele Alli’s, Coutinho’s, Hazards Eriksen etc.. Wilshere, the new Cazorla and Dembele have a similar style. Dembele at spurs gets the same criticism as wilshere when it comes to goals and assists.

I can’t remember how many goals or assists that Santi has raked in since moving into that CM position.

[theHotHead]

Not really with Eriksen, he is a CM too, like Jack he has moments in the attacking box but not much, he does the majority of work in the second two thirds of the pitch but plays a narrower game than Jack.

There is no deep lying midfielder, if you sit deep you are classed as a holding or defensive midfielder, Jack does not sit deep. You have a deep lying playmaker, someone that picks up the ball deep in his own half and can play long or short passes to dictate the pace of the game. They mostly spend their time closer to their defenders than they do to their offensive players. Jack does not do that either. He is at the moment a CM he gets up and down, not quite box to box but pretty much.

Ozil being an attacking midfielder is the opposite, he spends most of his time closer to the attackers than to the defenders.

Box to box midfielders can attack and defend and get up and down accordingly.