Super Jacky Wilshere

[Arsene Nose]

Lot of confusion on this forum. Let’s understand the differences between club legend, club icon and club star.
A legend is someone who through his feats breaks records and win trophies. For example Henry in our case. They get preferential treatment at the club like statues etc.
A club icon is someone who comes through the ranks and embodies the values of the club top to bottom. Remember a clubs raison d‘etre is to groom players. Wilshere is therefore an icon. Now you have some icons that are also legends, for example Tony Adams. This exaulted position gives him the title Mr. Arsenal. Or in Rauls case even the club is called Raul’s Real. No one ever says Ronaldo’s Real because even though he is a legend, he’s not an icon. Someone asked me whether Gibbs is an icon. And I have to say that’s a controversial question. On judgement I don’t consider him and icon but one could make the case. Iwobi, Nelson, AMN can all go on to being icons if they have long careers at Arsenal. Nketiah cannot because he is Chelsea. He can however be a legend some day.
A star player is like Sanchez who has temporary impact but is not long lasting.

[EliteKiller]

Lot of confusion on this forum. Let’s understand the differences between club legend, club icon and club star.
A legend is someone who through his feats breaks records and win trophies. For example Henry in our case. They get preferential treatment at the club like statues etc.
A club icon is someone who comes through the ranks and embodies the values of the club top to bottom. Remember a clubs raison d‘etre is to groom players. Wilshere is therefore an icon. Now you have some icons that are also legends, for example Tony Adams. This exaulted position gives him the title Mr. Arsenal. Or in Rauls case even the club is called Raul’s Real. No one ever says Ronaldo’s Real because even though he is a legend, he’s not an icon. Someone asked me whether Gibbs is an icon. And I have to say that’s a controversial question. On judgement I don’t consider him and icon but one could make the case. Iwobi, Nelson, AMN can all go on to being icons if they have long careers at Arsenal. Nketiah cannot because he is Chelsea. He can however be a legend some day.
A star player is like Sanchez who has temporary impact but is not long lasting.

Let's simplify ....

IDIOT - A person who keeps banging the same old broken drum even when every justification he put forward has been utterly shredded by his peers ...

[Arsenal Tone]

Lot of confusion on this forum. Let’s understand the differences between club legend, club icon and club star.
A legend is someone who through his feats breaks records and win trophies. For example Henry in our case. They get preferential treatment at the club like statues etc.
A club icon is someone who comes through the ranks and embodies the values of the club top to bottom. Remember a clubs raison d‘etre is to groom players. Wilshere is therefore an icon. Now you have some icons that are also legends, for example Tony Adams. This exaulted position gives him the title Mr. Arsenal. Or in Rauls case even the club is called Raul’s Real. No one ever says Ronaldo’s Real because even though he is a legend, he’s not an icon. Someone asked me whether Gibbs is an icon. And I have to say that’s a controversial question. On judgement I don’t consider him and icon but one could make the case. Iwobi, Nelson, AMN can all go on to being icons if they have long careers at Arsenal. Nketiah cannot because he is Chelsea. He can however be a legend some day.
A star player is like Sanchez who has temporary impact but is not long lasting.

Good post. The best ‘icon’ example would be Ray Parlour. Now you wouldn’t put him in alongside Henry and Vieira (legends) but he embodied the club. The Tony Adams example of someone who is both an icon and a legend is good too.

The problem I have with Jack being an icon is that players like Parlour achieved stuff at the club and were regulars. Wilshere has never stepped up to be nailed on starter.

I still think he has been mismanaged. The talent was there as a 16 y/o and whilst injuries played a part, he could have been developed better.

[Arsene Nose]

Lot of confusion on this forum. Let’s understand the differences between club legend, club icon and club star.
A legend is someone who through his feats breaks records and win trophies. For example Henry in our case. They get preferential treatment at the club like statues etc.
A club icon is someone who comes through the ranks and embodies the values of the club top to bottom. Remember a clubs raison d‘etre is to groom players. Wilshere is therefore an icon. Now you have some icons that are also legends, for example Tony Adams. This exaulted position gives him the title Mr. Arsenal. Or in Rauls case even the club is called Raul’s Real. No one ever says Ronaldo’s Real because even though he is a legend, he’s not an icon. Someone asked me whether Gibbs is an icon. And I have to say that’s a controversial question. On judgement I don’t consider him and icon but one could make the case. Iwobi, Nelson, AMN can all go on to being icons if they have long careers at Arsenal. Nketiah cannot because he is Chelsea. He can however be a legend some day.
A star player is like Sanchez who has temporary impact but is not long lasting.

Good post. The best ‘icon’ example would be Ray Parlour. Now you wouldn’t put him in alongside Henry and Vieira (legends) but he embodied the club. The Tony Adams example of someone who is both an icon and a legend is good too.

The problem I have with Jack being an icon is that players like Parlour achieved stuff at the club and were regulars. Wilshere has never stepped up to be nailed on starter.

I still think he has been mismanaged. The talent was there as a 16 y/o and whilst injuries played a part, he could have been developed better.

What a pleasant response. A real fan with an actual difference of opinion that’s not abusive. Fair enough mate. But don’t you think the only thing that prevented Jack from notching up appearances was injuries? I’d also suggest that jack has far more talent than the romford pele.

[theHotHead]

Lot of confusion on this forum. Let’s understand the differences between club legend, club icon and club star.
A legend is someone who through his feats breaks records and win trophies. For example Henry in our case. They get preferential treatment at the club like statues etc.
A club icon is someone who comes through the ranks and embodies the values of the club top to bottom. Remember a clubs raison d‘etre is to groom players. Wilshere is therefore an icon. Now you have some icons that are also legends, for example Tony Adams. This exaulted position gives him the title Mr. Arsenal. Or in Rauls case even the club is called Raul’s Real. No one ever says Ronaldo’s Real because even though he is a legend, he’s not an icon. Someone asked me whether Gibbs is an icon. And I have to say that’s a controversial question. On judgement I don’t consider him and icon but one could make the case. Iwobi, Nelson, AMN can all go on to being icons if they have long careers at Arsenal. Nketiah cannot because he is Chelsea. He can however be a legend some day.
A star player is like Sanchez who has temporary impact but is not long lasting.

I take your point between the difference between an icon and a legend. But here is where your problem lies; you say an icon embodies the values of the club.

As a previous example showed, Ray Parlour embodied the values of the club. He played the game well and fairly, did not complain, did what the manager asked of him, was an integral and important part of the team, was reliable amd honest. An upstanding member of the club and represented Arsenal's values well.

Then you have Wilshere, perpetually injured (some say his own fault due to the reckless nature of his game), was not particularly reliable, was a liar (said he would stop smoking but was caught smoking again), gave short shrift therefore to his Arsenal career (clearly smoking/acting the lad was more important), caught up in nightclub fights and sang disgusting anti Spurs songs in public (funny as hell but hardly represents values of Arsenal football club).

I'm afraid these things are polar opposites to a true club icon, Jack Wilshere is an Arsenal boy, for sure, he is Arsenal through and through, but as a lifelong Arsenal fan I do not feel he represents me - and I was born and raised in Holloway. He is perhaps an iconic player but is no club icon especially when held up to the values you state make someone a club icon.

Merson had issues but the difference between him and Wilshere was Merson was far more reliable and did far more for the club than Wilshere did. He is an icon, some say legend.

[Arsene Nose]

Please stop talking nonsense. Wilsheres problem was his body didn’t grow into a footballers body. He was pushed hard in his teens and his body didn’t naturally develop. There’s no way for anyone to know that. As far as smoking and acting up, he was an angel compared to the players of the ‘90s. I have no problem with people wanting Wilshere and Wenger gone but this revisionist history shit is annoying as hell.

[Luzh 22]

Please stop talking nonsense. Wilsheres problem was his body didn’t grow into a footballers body. He was pushed hard in his teens and his body didn’t naturally develop. There’s no way for anyone to know that. As far as smoking and acting up, he was an angel compared to the players of the ‘90s. I have no problem with people wanting Wilshere and Wenger gone but this revisionist history shit is annoying as hell.

I love how you make up rules as you go along lol.

Anyway, given your list of requisites concerning icon status, Paul Merson is the embodiment of those you have written about.


So, now that we have cleared that up, what are your thoughts on AW getting rid of a "club icon" as soon as he arrived? One could easily parallel Merson & Wilshere, yet you seem to be poo-pooing all over Emery for doing exactly what AW did upon arrival.

Explain please, without resorting to making a whole new rule set that somehow qualifies Wilshere yet expunges Merson.

[Arsene Nose]

Please stop talking nonsense. Wilsheres problem was his body didn’t grow into a footballers body. He was pushed hard in his teens and his body didn’t naturally develop. There’s no way for anyone to know that. As far as smoking and acting up, he was an angel compared to the players of the ‘90s. I have no problem with people wanting Wilshere and Wenger gone but this revisionist history shit is annoying as hell.

I love how you make up rules as you go along lol.

Anyway, given your list of requisites concerning icon status, Paul Merson is the embodiment of those you have written about.


So, now that we have cleared that up, what are your thoughts on AW getting rid of a "club icon" as soon as he arrived? One could easily parallel Merson & Wilshere, yet you seem to be poo-pooing all over Emery for doing exactly what AW did upon arrival.

Explain please, without resorting to making a whole new rule set that somehow qualifies Wilshere yet expunges Merson.

It's not worth responding but what the hell. Go ahead and google (since that's the only way you'll learn) about what guys like Adams, Dixon, Parlour etc. had to say about Wenger extending their careers. Merson had serious alcohol, drug and gambling problems and was a bad influence around the club. The worst Wilshere has been accused off is the occasional fag and a fracas outside a nightclub. Please also consider the fact that Wenger retained the services of every employee and only brought Primorac along with him compared to Gazidis firing everyone before Emery even arrived. There really is no comparison.

[Luzh 22]

Please stop talking nonsense. Wilsheres problem was his body didn’t grow into a footballers body. He was pushed hard in his teens and his body didn’t naturally develop. There’s no way for anyone to know that. As far as smoking and acting up, he was an angel compared to the players of the ‘90s. I have no problem with people wanting Wilshere and Wenger gone but this revisionist history shit is annoying as hell.

I love how you make up rules as you go along lol.

Anyway, given your list of requisites concerning icon status, Paul Merson is the embodiment of those you have written about.


So, now that we have cleared that up, what are your thoughts on AW getting rid of a "club icon" as soon as he arrived? One could easily parallel Merson & Wilshere, yet you seem to be poo-pooing all over Emery for doing exactly what AW did upon arrival.

Explain please, without resorting to making a whole new rule set that somehow qualifies Wilshere yet expunges Merson.

It's not worth responding but what the hell. Go ahead and google (since that's the only way you'll learn) about what guys like Adams, Dixon, Parlour etc. had to say about Wenger extending their careers. Merson had serious alcohol, drug and gambling problems and was a bad influence around the club. The worst Wilshere has been accused off is the occasional fag and a fracas outside a nightclub. Please also consider the fact that Wenger retained the services of every employee and only brought Primorac along with him compared to Gazidis firing everyone before Emery even arrived. There really is no comparison.

Adams was worse than Merson, yet AW kept him. You also gave Adams "icon" status. Adams even went to prison midway through a season for drink driving. Let's be honest he didn't have just a couple either, he was 27 times over the limit whilst smashing his car into a wall.

Staff being fired has absolutely nothing at all to do with this conversation.


Anyway, Merson was a "club icon" given your requisites. AW got rid of him when he got here. According to you, doing such a thing is a massive no-no. Do you therefore condemn AW for doing so? If not why?

[Arsene Nose]

God I’m tired of the trolls.

[King of Highbury XIV]

If wheelchair has any respect for the team then he would play for free. Even now instead of quietly leaving to avoid any media distraction, he's publicizing his decision as if he is some all-time great going on a farewell tour. It's like dude, you live off of one game, grow the f**k up, shut the f**k up and please leave our team already and take your collection of wheelchairs with u. God, I despise Wilshere. He went from captain jack to wheelchair. The sooner he leaves and gives up the no. 10, the better it will be for everyone else.

[Ach]

Well he's gone in a week.

Couldn't care less if he's a club icon or not, on the pitch is what matters and he's dog

[Arsenal Tone]

I still can’t get his cameo vs Juve in the emirates cup out of my head. Spent the whole journey home raving about him.

[Ach]

Sanogo scored 4 goals in a match in Emirates cup

[Arsenal Tone]

I know, but Jack was doing all these flicks and stuff against some of the best players in the world. His confidence was immense.