Bernd Leno joins Fulham

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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Ach » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:07 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Özim wrote:I think the wider issue is that Leno is being asked to play like this and maybe that he’s not cut out to do so and hence he’s making errors.

Wider issue is shit players in midfield who can't deal with the passing out the back style

Partey seems fine with it. Scored a goal from it when he was passed to.

Xhaka and Ceballos panicked and you see what happened.

Lenos fine. Midfield isn't

Tbf not just the midfield, luiz f***ked up as well yesterday but fortunately they missed.

Ach, the problem is Leno is fine for a different style of football. but I cannot blame Leno, because he is out of his comfort zone.

He plays the same passes ederson does.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby theHotHead » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:33 pm

Ach wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Özim wrote:I think the wider issue is that Leno is being asked to play like this and maybe that he’s not cut out to do so and hence he’s making errors.

Wider issue is shit players in midfield who can't deal with the passing out the back style

Partey seems fine with it. Scored a goal from it when he was passed to.

Xhaka and Ceballos panicked and you see what happened.

Lenos fine. Midfield isn't

Tbf not just the midfield, luiz f***ked up as well yesterday but fortunately they missed.

Ach, the problem is Leno is fine for a different style of football. but I cannot blame Leno, because he is out of his comfort zone.

He plays the same passes ederson does.

Actually ........ good point ... well made.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:39 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Özim wrote:I think the wider issue is that Leno is being asked to play like this and maybe that he’s not cut out to do so and hence he’s making errors.

Wider issue is shit players in midfield who can't deal with the passing out the back style

Partey seems fine with it. Scored a goal from it when he was passed to.

Xhaka and Ceballos panicked and you see what happened.

Lenos fine. Midfield isn't

Tbf not just the midfield, luiz f***ked up as well yesterday but fortunately they missed.

Ach, the problem is Leno is fine for a different style of football. but I cannot blame Leno, because he is out of his comfort zone.

He plays the same passes ederson does.

Actually ........ good point ... well made.


Comes down to decision making - a massive weak point for Leno.
Any player needs to know his teammates.
If a full-back played it up the line for a forward to chase - and that forward was as fast as a snail who just woke up - it's not a good ball no matter how well executed the pass was.
The idea that leno can be forgiven for risky passes, because the players he is playing it out to are not good in tight situations, is ridiculous.

We see it all the time with Leno - his mind just goes and he does the first thing that pops into his head, like the handball outside the area recently.
It's simply not good enough at this level.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Ach » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:42 pm

Ederson probably plays the long passes better which is why he's seen as great with his feet but these short passes, every keeper does that. It's then on the player recieving the pass not to f**k up.

Ours did.

In hindsight, yeah Leno should've just kicked it out but I've never judged a player on hindsight
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby theHotHead » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:44 pm

But are they risky passes though Jay ? Ederson does exactly the same for City and nobody criticises him for making risky passes, he is rated as an world class goal keeper. Surely the fault lies with the players Leno is passing the ball to ? Arteta wants to play out from the back, its EXACTLY what they do at Man City, when it works everyone applauds its marvelousness ... but when it doesn't work we look like clowns. So we either stop doing it or we continue to do it with players not suited to it and continue complaining that players are making mistakes.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Ach » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:46 pm

theHotHead wrote:But are they risky passes though Jay ? Ederson does exactly the same for City and nobody criticises him for making risky passes, he is rated as an world class goal keeper. Surely the fault lies with the players Leno is passing the ball to ? Arteta wants to play out from the back, its EXACTLY what they do at Man City, when it works everyone applauds its marvelousness ... but when it doesn't work we look like clowns. So we either stop doing it or we continue to do it with players not suited to it and continue complaining that players are making mistakes.

Exactly

Our goal v Burnley came from a similar pass from Leno to partey.

Xhakas first touch put him in trouble he wasn't in when Leno passed the ball and ceballos turned in to trouble which had he turned the other way, he wouldn't have got in to.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:55 pm

theHotHead wrote:But are they risky passes though Jay ? Ederson does exactly the same for City and nobody criticises him for making risky passes, he is rated as an world class goal keeper. Surely the fault lies with the players Leno is passing the ball to ? Arteta wants to play out from the back, its EXACTLY what they do at Man City, when it works everyone applauds its marvelousness ... but when it doesn't work we look like clowns. So we either stop doing it or we continue to do it with players not suited to it and continue complaining that players are making mistakes.


You know your players and you know the risks involved. We're not Man City.
If you can't, you're not good enough and simply hurt the team as a whole.
Arteta is not telling Leno to pass it short every time. He said so himself. If Leno can not learn good judgement then he has no business being a starter in this league as a goalkeeper.
It's also not just the passes into risky areas at bad times. As Seaman pointed out, Leno made that pass to Ceballos whilst he himself was out of position and our goal was completely unprotected. That's dumb. It's poor decision making.

Now, don't get me wrong. It wasn't all Leno's fault as I said during the game. It was a double act clown show. Ceballos turned into trouble. Xhaka tried a risky pass once he received it in the previous match. Both idiots too.

How does the saying go?
Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results


I'd have hoped by now that Leno would have learned - but he hasn't.
He's like a child who keeps putting their hand on a hot stove.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby VCC » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:32 pm

Pass the ball to any player with their back to goal you need to be their eyes, where is he turning ?, is he playing straight back?, does he have time to take a touch?, all of those things need to be relayed by the keeper.
Ederson is probably a much much better communicator than Leno
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:51 pm

VCC wrote:Pass the ball to any player with their back to goal you need to be their eyes, where is he turning ?, is he playing straight back?, does he have time to take a touch?, all of those things need to be relayed by the keeper.
Ederson is probably a much much better communicator than Leno


Looking back at the video, Ceballos seemed to be aware of the defenders around him and wasn't caught off guard be the pass. You can see him looking over his left shoulde and scanning whilst running back to receive the pass. He just misunderestimated the amount of time he had on the ball, tried taken it on the turn and gets mugged the guy right in front of him.

We're going to keep playing this but we really need to improve. Our play need to speed up in general when it comes to playing out from the back everyone including Leno will need to learn how to play one touch passes. The goal probably doesn't happen if either player plays a one touch pass. Same situation with Xhaka.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Ach » Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:18 pm

theHotHead wrote:But are they risky passes though Jay ? Ederson does exactly the same for City and nobody criticises him for making risky passes, he is rated as an world class goal keeper. Surely the fault lies with the players Leno is passing the ball to ? Arteta wants to play out from the back, its EXACTLY what they do at Man City, when it works everyone applauds its marvelousness ... but when it doesn't work we look like clowns. So we either stop doing it or we continue to do it with players not suited to it and continue complaining that players are making mistakes.

Martinez just played the same passes as well to his team mates under the same amount of pressure our Muppets were under.

They dealt with it easily
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby theHotHead » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:11 am

Yeah I am not convinced that ball to Ceballos is as bad as being claimed. As PNG said, Ceballos turned into trouble, its not like he had any players right on him. Had Ceballos turned right instead of left we might be having a different discussion.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:20 pm

theHotHead wrote:Yeah I am not convinced that ball to Ceballos is as bad as being claimed. As PNG said, Ceballos turned into trouble, its not like he had any players right on him. Had Ceballos turned right instead of left we might be having a different discussion.
Part of that is communication. If we had a Tony Adams type behind him screaming instructions it might have been different.

I guess that is that is the point of Luiz and Willian but neither are big talkers on the pitch.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:31 pm

jayramfootball wrote:You know your players and you know the risks involved. We're not Man City.


That is pretty much all that needs to be said.

"But City do it" ......... right, but we ain't City and we don't have their players.

The fact that we saw this just last week with Xhaka makes it all the more worse imo, just use your judgement and pick a better option, that is all we're asking it really isn't too much to ask or expect.

They're the professionals, he should know better, the fact that he doesn't is fkin concerning.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Power n Glory » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:04 pm

Tony Adams wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Yeah I am not convinced that ball to Ceballos is as bad as being claimed. As PNG said, Ceballos turned into trouble, its not like he had any players right on him. Had Ceballos turned right instead of left we might be having a different discussion.
Part of that is communication. If we had a Tony Adams type behind him screaming instructions it might have been different.

I guess that is that is the point of Luiz and Willian but neither are big talkers on the pitch.


I think it's more of a timing and judgement issue as Arteta has said. We often see Xhaka, Luiz and sometimes Ceballos gesturing to other players where to pass if they don’t want the ball. The fact that Xhaka and Ceballos both dropped back from deep expecting the pass from Leno knowing there would be pressure is says to me they judged the situation wrong.

Leno also should have used his judgement to either pass the ball quicker or not pass it at all. Same game Leno played a similar pass out to Elneny and he just knocked it right back to Leno first time. He's much better at one touch football where Xhaka, Ceballos and Luiz are the trio that take a lot longer to play a pass even when under no pressure.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby ag6789 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:05 pm

The troubling thing is all these basic mistakes are made repeatatively by senior and experienced players like Xhakha, Luiz, Leno and Ceb. They aren't kids that their mistakes can be quickly corrected,should have been second instincts. No manager can teach basics to seasoned professionals .
Basic: when under pressure kick it away or throw away.
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