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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:42 pm
by elkanofan
Power n Glory wrote:Elk....you can't be serious. He has to change formation every week to avoid getting smashed but our most consistent form comes when he sticks to a formation.....make it make sense.


When have we been consistent since Ramsey has been injured? Not at all.

Have we had a balanced team since Ramsey has been injured? Nope

Before Ramsey got injured we won 6 out of 7 games conceding 1 scoring 13.

Since Ramsey got injured its been freefall basically! Us buying a Ramsey replacement was hindered quite clearly by Ozil reluctance to leave and free up 350k in wages. Which is why I really dislike Ozil! Its all about him and his ego. This is becoming Mesut FC not Arsenal FC.

You seem to think this is a pissing contest and you're overly concerned with winning a debate,


I'm fed up with the cult of Mesut Ozil which is detriment to Arsenal and i will be here point out his glaring flaws until hes gone or a miracle happens and he becomes effective again.

doubling down on nonsense that you know makes no footballing sense at all.


It's beyond your football awareness, that's why you don't understand, I suggest you learn more about the balance between defence and attack. Learn more about players defensive awareness off the ball. You really don't understand the defensive side of the game at all.Your convinced your right, i prove otherwise and you always react the same.

I can tell your used to being a big fish in knowledge in a small pound and your constantly out of your depth when you enter in debates with me. Yeah i'm clearly annoyed at Mesut Ozil, i don't even try to hide that, but i always give reasons to why i'm annoyed and its one of the biggest problems we have here at Arsenal and you fail every single time you go into moderate depth about this with me.

Hence why you won't concede a point even if it doesn't make tactical sense. Keep thinking you're winning something. You've managed to duck and deflect most of my questions.


Once again same story, i answer everything you questioned me on and you cannot handle it, its clear for everyone to see. There no hiding anymore Power and Glory. If you want to debate with me you know how hard and deep you must go and if you fail, you fail. Learn from it instead of getting all pissy and annoyed and trying to take the moral high ground.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:18 am
by Power n Glory
@Elk
Try to answer the following.
- Should he stick with this formation or should he try a different formation or line up? Does he need to be more conservative with our passing or take more risks?
- What's the point in playing three at the back with two wingbacks that hardly ventured forward if there isn't enough defensive cover if we're still unable to take a bit more of risk on attacks?
- With Aubameyang and Lacazette both drifting to opposite flanks, does it actually make sense for Ozil to just stand in the middle waiting for a pass when both strikers are far to his left or right? How is he supposed to link play with nobody around and in an isolated position?
- He has to change formation every week to avoid getting smashed but our most consistent form comes when he sticks to a formation.....make it make sense.

When have we been consistent since Ramsey has been injured? Not at all.

Have we had a balanced team since Ramsey has been injured? Nope

Before Ramsey got injured we won 6 out of 7 games conceding 1 scoring 13.


We’ve been pretty poor under Emery throughout but even this season, without Ramsey, we’ve gotten our best results from a 4-2-3-1. For this season in all comp, 7 out of our 8 wins have come when playing a 4-2-3-1. It’s all well and good saying we’d lose if using it against better teams but we’ve lost or drop points every time we’ve switched to a different formation this season. We’re lucky to have even won against Victoria otherwise I wouldn’t be able to say we’ve won 1 out of our last 7 games.

You say we have a poor and unbalanced team. I agree that there is a lot to be desired from what we have, but do honestly think the best way about it is to switch formations this frequently? Do we have the players with the mental capacity or discipline to switch their game and mentality from week to week? This crop of players? I don’t but you tell me.

Back to Ozil. He can be a problematic player. I’ve criticised him a lot and agree with some of your points on his weak areas but I’ve come to accept that he’s never going to shoot and run at players like he’s 24 again. If we’ve going to use him, we have to accept the player we have on our hands with all his strengths and weaknesses. If he started to flag around the 60 minute mark, why didn’t the manager sub him off for Martinelli, a player that has bags of energy to continue pressing? He doesn’t have to play for 90 minutes but that’s what Emery chose to do. Ozil’s best performance came against Liverpool in the league cup, last season it was against Leicester and it’s when he plays a 10 in a 4-2-3-1 set up. The last time he played a 3-5-2/-5-3-2 was when we got thrashed in Baku 4-1. Does it make much sense to keep on returning to a set up when we still have nightmares from that game? What was supposed to be different against Leicester City?

It's beyond your football awareness, that's why you don't understand, I suggest you learn more about the balance between defence and attack. Learn more about players defensive awareness off the ball. You really don't understand the defensive side of the game at all.Your convinced your right, i prove otherwise and you always react the same.


You say stuff like this but never actually tell anyone what a balanced Arsenal squad looks like or who we could get some semblance of balance from what we have. Educate if you're that enlightened. Don't sit on the fence and write and essay after the fact and it's a cop out to resort to 'we need better players' type answer. We don't have that as an option for the moment and we're analysing the game. There have been plenty of games where Ozil hasn't played and he hasn't pressed. Plenty where Ceballos has started. If you're going to suggest Ceballos would have better than Ozil, go all the way and give your full opinion on how you think we should set up and play instead of spending time breaking down any tactical suggestion I come up with. That's easy to do and anyone can say we just need new players.

Back to the formation....If we’re going with a 3 at the back with two wing backs, that should be enough cover for the flanks and middle of the park so we’re not getting dragged all over the pitch and getting exposed. Look at the Kola/Ozil pass situation again and you’ll see there is enough cover to deal with a turnover. That’s the point of playing with more defensive players behind the ball. I’d actually say we’re more heavy on the defensive side because we’re not committing men forward which is why we’re not creating shooting opportunities for our strikers. But despite having all that cover at the back, we’re still not stable at the back. It’s down to poor coaching.

If Kola isn’t confident enough to play a simple ball to Ozil on his weaker foot out of fear of an interception when so far up the pitch, maybe Emery should rethink trying to play the ball out from the back. That’s a high risk game where there is zero cover when a mistake is made.
We can see the team is lacking in confidence and for Emery to put that right, he has to return players to their natural and most confident positions, stick to a formation and coach. He himself has said he prefers the 4-2-3-1 formation and the more he switches and shows indecision he’s just undermining his own coaching principles.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:06 am
by jayramfootball
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:You have a lot to learn about the game if you think Ozil was the issue yesterday.
We were away to a top 4 side. Our front 3 were never going to get as much of the ball.

It's strange because last week against Wolves Ozil had 110 touches and 3 key passes, yet you were not on here talking about how well he played.
You pick and choose stats based on your agenda, fella.

Yesterday, Ozil did a good job when he got the ball - linking play and retaining posession. He was all over the pitch, working hard as his heat map shows, making himself available. He didn't lose posession at all and was our top tackler (yep!). It was a solid 6 to 7 out of 10. Not great, but not bad, but enough to be our best player. In fact, since he's come back, he's easily been our best player.

Should be the first name on the team sheet and Emery should be removed for only giving him 250 minutes all season. Stupid decision.



You think Ozil is the future of Arsenal football club - I think that makes you an idiot - others can make up their own mind ...


He's 31. He's not our long term future. You need to improve your reading skills.
No player or manager is the future of Arsenal football club. Some fans seem to get so emotionally engaged to players or managers they lose sight of the club altogether.
When you realise that, you'll be able to better debate on whether Ozil should be playng NOW. That's what matters.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm
by Rockape
I'm bored with this thread, as its all been said many, many pages before this one. All I'd add is that the position he played in on Saturday was not a position to play some tidy linking passes, but to kick start the attack. Whether its finding a bit of space to create a shot, a one/two and a shot, or just beating a defender to make a killer pass to those in front of him. It just didn't happen, which tells me we'd be better off finding a player who can do better.

People criticised Ramsay for trying things and losing the ball, but every now and then it would come off. Ozil isn't even trying.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:07 pm
by elkanofan
Power n Glory wrote:@Elk
Try to answer the following.
- Should he stick with this formation or should he try a different formation or line up? Does he need to be more conservative with our passing or take more risks?
- What's the point in playing three at the back with two wingbacks that hardly ventured forward if there isn't enough defensive cover if we're still unable to take a bit more of risk on attacks?
- With Aubameyang and Lacazette both drifting to opposite flanks, does it actually make sense for Ozil to just stand in the middle waiting for a pass when both strikers are far to his left or right? How is he supposed to link play with nobody around and in an isolated position?
- He has to change formation every week to avoid getting smashed but our most consistent form comes when he sticks to a formation.....make it make sense.


Ok. Looks like we are going to go round in circles because you will not accept my point and something i have seen as a clear lack of awareness you have on the defensive side of the game.

Lets run through our 343 vs Leicester.

It was a very defensive 343 for the sole reason Ozil cannot press high and has no energy levels off the ball to help out a very poor defensive team in defance so his best position on defence was to be a false 9/attacking mid hybrid. This is to conserve his energy to just focus on we have the ball and he was poor aswell even when we had possession as his runs contradicted his central role.

Laca and Auba where wide attackers or even at times left and right midfielders in defence since we are heavily short in numbers in midfield and since these two are quite clearly by a distance our best players we need to play both of then and fit them into a effective system.

The 343 was taking into account again we are heavily short of quality in midfield. Ceballos injured, Xhaka still crying and Willock played full 90 on Wednesday so all we have is Guendouzi, Torreria as senior players. We lack height and strength in our midfield hence it gives the defence little protection so 3 at the back is a smart choice to have any solidity with the players we have at our disposal.

Going back to the front three. This attack was supposed to work exactly the same as how Werder Bremen have used their front 3 this season. Comparison:

Auba - Ozil - Laca

Rasciola - Bittencourt - Sargent

In attack the two wide players move into central areas and one plays as a striker/attacker, the other can also play as a striker cutting in or as a attacker with a free role as Auba did who either worked attacks from the wings while Laca moved centrally more.

Now for this to work this relies on the false 9 to stay in central areas to thread balls into the two players either side of him and work on linking the midfielders behind him along with the full backs going forwards. Its requires a lot of running and you have to have the technique to trap balls quickly, be able to dribble enough to evade all the tackles that will come in the middle and think fast.

Ozil isn't quick enough when he gets the ball to do this so he runs to the wings where there is space for him to do safe passes or tries to run direct in on goal. He's just scared to operate in central areas because he isn't good enough, his technique has dropped off also, he miss controls difficult passes more than he used to, he lacks any strength and resilience to ride or take tackles. He's dreadful in tight areas.

Werder don't have a powerful number 9 type to hold the ball up so their manager Kohfeldt has found a possession based method of attacking which suits his players. Emery did something very similar which as i said before if we used Ceballos who loves moving around in central areas, not even that, if we use Reiss Nelson there instead of Ozil to link the play, hell even Willock there the 343 could work very well. If we strengthen the midfield in January we could even use the 433 variation used by Werder this season with the front three using the same principle.

Now this all comes from the most basic of balance principles between attack and defence especially in modern football. Of the 10 outfield players you can only ever afford to have 1 player who can't defend. This answers you going round in circles with this 4231.

Power n Glory wrote:We’ve been pretty poor under Emery throughout but even this season, without Ramsey, we’ve gotten our best results from a 4-2-3-1. For this season in all comp, 7 out of our 8 wins have come when playing a 4-2-3-1. It’s all well and good saying we’d lose if using it against better teams but we’ve lost or drop points every time we’ve switched to a different formation this season. We’re lucky to have even won against Victoria otherwise I wouldn’t be able to say we’ve won 1 out of our last 7 games.

You say we have a poor and unbalanced team. I agree that there is a lot to be desired from what we have, but do honestly think the best way about it is to switch formations this frequently? Do we have the players with the mental capacity or discipline to switch their game and mentality from week to week? This crop of players? I don’t but you tell me.


We have two out and out strikers we are forced to play every game because they are our best players. In only 1 of the games we won using 4231 we used both Laca and Auba. All the other games had more balance to the 4231 with Saka/Pepe and Reiss Nelson on the wings. That game we won vs Burnley who sit deep so you don't have to worry so much about how weak our midfield was that day. Unlike away to a better side which Leicester certainly are, while Xhaka is much maligned however he's our strongest midfielder and he's essential to the team if we want to be solid and good opposition using just 2 center backs.

Mikhtaryan who played the first game vs Newcastle was loaned out which was stupid, Nelson has been injured, Pepe has been shit, Saka is just a kid. We have worn thin on effective wingers and lost a versatile attacking mid to even make a 4231 even work with good enough players to play in the wide areas let alone our defensive shitshow. Why you seem to persist which this without understand yourself the players good enough to work within the system is your own problem. This once again answers everything you queried me on regarding why we are changing formations so much.

Sticking to a system which is ineffective with the personal you have is stubborn and poor management. Changing things is what happens when players get injured and you previous lineups have clear deficiencies in player ability in certain areas.

All comes back to what i said before. The squad is shit and unbalanced overall.

Power n Glory wrote:Back to Ozil. He can be a problematic player. I’ve criticised him a lot and agree with some of your points on his weak areas but I’ve come to accept that he’s never going to shoot and run at players like he’s 24 again. If we’ve going to use him, we have to accept the player we have on our hands with all his strengths and weaknesses. If he started to flag around the 60 minute mark, why didn’t the manager sub him off for Martinelli, a player that has bags of energy to continue pressing?


Because he's feeling the pressure. Its why I dont mind at all if Emery leaves. Fans have reacted so badly to him being taken off before he's not just afraid of that. Ozil entourage has be the key people behind Emery out in the first place. He's dealt with dropping him very poorly and is now in the shit because Xhaka is still crying and falling out with everyone not ready to play and he's short on midfielders and now has no option but to use Ozil.

Its a testament to how shit this club is being run from from the top all the way throughout the club. Player power is out of control here.

Power n Glory wrote:
elkanofan wrote:It's beyond your football awareness, that's why you don't understand, I suggest you learn more about the balance between defence and attack. Learn more about players defensive awareness off the ball. You really don't understand the defensive side of the game at all.Your convinced your right, i prove otherwise and you always react the same.


You say stuff like this but never actually tell anyone what a balanced Arsenal squad looks like or who we could get some semblance of balance from what we have. Educate if you're that enlightened. Don't sit on the fence and write and essay after the fact and it's a cop out to resort to 'we need better players' type answer. We don't have that as an option for the moment and we're analysing the game. There have been plenty of games where Ozil hasn't played and he hasn't pressed. Plenty where Ceballos has started. If you're going to suggest Ceballos would have better than Ozil, go all the way and give your full opinion on how you think we should set up and play instead of spending time breaking down any tactical suggestion I come up with. That's easy to do and anyone can say we just need new players.

Back to the formation....If we’re going with a 3 at the back with two wing backs, that should be enough cover for the flanks and middle of the park so we’re not getting dragged all over the pitch and getting exposed. Look at the Kola/Ozil pass situation again and you’ll see there is enough cover to deal with a turnover. That’s the point of playing with more defensive players behind the ball. I’d actually say we’re more heavy on the defensive side because we’re not committing men forward which is why we’re not creating shooting opportunities for our strikers. But despite having all that cover at the back, we’re still not stable at the back. It’s down to poor coaching.


A balanced top level squad who plays in europe has at least 3 players to play each position. At least 2 specialists for each position with the 3rd or 4th option being versatility.

Just look at City, Liverpool, Chelsea especially, even Leicester. United have better balance than us, they just have poor strikers! The filth are in freefall still have aabetter squad than us.

With us, with the situation we have with Xhaka crying and being all soft and emotional and with Ceballos injured. That leaves us so short in midfield i genuinely don't even know our best 11 anymore. Hence why i haven't put many formations down. I'm very honest about this and whatever i saw is Emery even going to care?

Away from home i like this setup we did vs Leicester and i think it can work with Nelson instead of Ozil, even Ceballos. I think the key is we need to at least get either player to operate and link our deep midfielders with our attacks coming in from out wide. Both players also wont be afirad to take players on and shoot along with their playmaking duties.

We certainly ain't good enough to ensure clean sheets but the defensive shape is enough not to make us difficault to break down unlike a 4231 which will make us easy to be played through the middle with the players we have. You need strength and height in the midfield in the EPL unless you have a team of highly technically gifted players like City have. We don't have that.

Playing 3 at the back may help this team grind it out till January where we need signings. We are going to have to be adapt to make it to January depending on who we have.

Power n Glory wrote:If Kola isn’t confident enough to play a simple ball to Ozil on his weaker foot out of fear of an interception when so far up the pitch, maybe Emery should rethink trying to play the ball out from the back. That’s a high risk game where there is zero cover when a mistake is made.
We can see the team is lacking in confidence and for Emery to put that right, he has to return players to their natural and most confident positions, stick to a formation and coach. He himself has said he prefers the 4-2-3-1 formation and the more he switches and shows indecision he’s just undermining his own coaching principles.


Ozil is a extreme one footed player and he's technically better than Kolasianc. Ozils whole balanced is so shifted to his left side he dosent even look over his right shoulder at all for him to make his safe passes. He only ever uses his right when in loads of space. This is our supposed cheif creator?

In professional football when under pressure from an opponent with no real space and you see someone make a run but is being tracked clearly by a center back behind him as Ozil was. Your still expecting a very moderate technical player as Kolasinac who is not a great passer even with his strong foot let alone his weak foot under pressure to make an 'easy pass'. You have to stop falling for the media bullshit about all footballers being super amazing in this era. That's crap to get you buy all the materialistic garbage sold by these corporations. Not every top pro is that good on their weak foot. Only certain players are and even still like Obafemi Martins, that doesn't even make you a technically gifted player, just competent. You can have two average feet like he did rather than one specialist foot and one competent one.

Now we can keep going round in circles here or you can look at what i have wrote and look and my main point regarding your views on our formation.

You really need to learn about how players defend more. Bar the comparison i made with Werder Bremen's front 3 which they have used a few times this season.

I have already said everything here already and I have to repeat myself constantly because you still dont get the defensive side of the game.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:31 pm
by Power n Glory
@Elk

It was 3-5-2 but for arguments sakes let’s call it a 3-4-3 because that’s how it looked when defending off the ball. Patronising tone aside, isn’t this….

We lack height and strength in our midfield hence it gives the defence little protection so 3 at the back is a smart choice to have any solidity with the players we have at our disposal.

What I’ve already said here….

Back to the formation....If we’re going with a 3 at the back with two wing backs, that should be enough cover for the flanks and middle of the park so we’re not getting dragged all over the pitch and getting exposed. That’s the point of playing with more defensive players behind the ball.
I wouldn’t say we’re going around in circles that much. A long winded explanation of what you think is happening on the pitch is unnecessary. The idea behind the formation is very simple. It’s just about having more bodies behind the ball and defending in numbers so we’re not overly exposed when we haven’t got it.


Why you seem to persist which this without understand yourself the players good enough to work within the system is your own problem. This once again answers everything you queried me on regarding why we are changing formations so much.
Sticking to a system which is ineffective with the personal you have is stubborn and poor management. Changing things is what happens when players get injured and you previous lineups have clear deficiencies in player ability in certain areas.


Haven’t you just contradicted yourself here? You’ve avoided speaking about Baku in this long post and considering we can partially agree on the weak areas of Ozil, why in the world would the manager deploy him in that position again if you think he’s poor for the position? How many times does he have to see it not work? He has Martinelli as an option who is stronger in the tackle and an aggressive presser off the ball. I also don’t think Ozil is that bad pressing because his best performance came against Liverpool where he helped force a couple of turnovers in their half and we scored goals. Again, Ozil doesn’t have to play the full 90 minutes. Also, most teams don't switch formations so frequently because of injuries or needing a more defensive approach. We could tell our fullbacks to stay deep and also keep

We can continue on, but you have to really cut the patronising tone about not understanding defence when you’ve hardly said a word about bar Ozil not pressing hard enough and physical stature.

Xhaka is much maligned however he's our strongest midfielder and he's essential to the team if we want to be solid and good opposition using just 2 center backs.

I strongly disagree with that one. Physically strong but too slow to close a player down, too scared to receive the ball in tight areas, no discipline and a very limited player technically. I could go but you get the point.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:36 pm
by DiamondGooner
It was 3-4-3 or 5-2-3.

However you want to call it, we definitely had a flat 3 up front with Ozil in the middle that is not debatable.

Whether 5 or 3 at the back depends on whether we were defending or going forward, either description is acceptable.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:43 pm
by gamechannel
Elkopubber. Give it a rest dude. You're reaching and you anti bias shows.

Ozil is a number 10. He was played as a false 9 yesterday with both strikers used as wingers and playing wide. Ozil was the least of our worries yesterday.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:49 pm
by Highbury Hillbilly
This thread just has been going around in circles since 2016.

Ozil has a good game: "Wow, simply world class. None of our players have his talent".

Ozil is anonymous : he isn't Messi, he is not the type of player to change games on his own. Give him the right players to work with, the right manager, the right formation, the right opposition, and he'll do wonders.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:55 pm
by Angelito
'Course Oz is world class.

Any other opinion is asinine. I mean, we have Unai Emery as our manager. What could be more hilarious?

It's not surprising that a club so used to mediocrity fails to recognize one of the finest central attacking midfielders in the history of modern football.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:56 pm
by Power n Glory
DiamondGooner wrote:It was 3-4-3 or 5-2-3.

However you want to call it, we definitely had a flat 3 up front with Ozil in the middle that is not debatable.

Whether 5 or 3 at the back depends on whether we were defending or going forward, either description is acceptable.


I'd call it a 5-2-3/3-5-2. Because we on the back foot so much, our wingbacks weren't getting forward as much so we were mostly defending with 5 in the backline.

Also, when we have played a 3-4-3 in the past, we usually play a lone striker up top and the other two players are more like wingers that cut in. Last season, Emery would play Iwobi, Mkhi or even Ramsey and Ozil in those roles. He doesn't usually play both strikers in that role with a 10 through the middle. Our last game in the EL was more of a 3-4-3 because he played Saka and Pepe either side of Martinelli with Willock and Ceballos as the two Cm's.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:24 pm
by elkanofan
Power n Glory wrote:@Elk

It was 3-5-2 but for arguments sakes let’s call it a 3-4-3 because that’s how it looked when defending off the ball. Patronising tone aside, isn’t this….

We lack height and strength in our midfield hence it gives the defence little protection so 3 at the back is a smart choice to have any solidity with the players we have at our disposal.

What I’ve already said here….

Back to the formation....If we’re going with a 3 at the back with two wing backs, that should be enough cover for the flanks and middle of the park so we’re not getting dragged all over the pitch and getting exposed. That’s the point of playing with more defensive players behind the ball.
I wouldn’t say we’re going around in circles that much. A long winded explanation of what you think is happening on the pitch is unnecessary. The idea behind the formation is very simple. It’s just about having more bodies behind the ball and defending in numbers so we’re not overly exposed when we haven’t got it.


Why you seem to persist which this without understand yourself the players good enough to work within the system is your own problem. This once again answers everything you queried me on regarding why we are changing formations so much.
Sticking to a system which is ineffective with the personal you have is stubborn and poor management. Changing things is what happens when players get injured and you previous lineups have clear deficiencies in player ability in certain areas.


Haven’t you just contradicted yourself here? You’ve avoided speaking about Baku in this long post and considering we can partially agree on the weak areas of Ozil, why in the world would the manager deploy him in that position again if you think he’s poor for the position?


This is you arguing for arguments sake now!

elkanofan wrote:With us, with the situation we have with Xhaka crying and being all soft and emotional and with Ceballos injured. That leaves us so short in midfield i genuinely don't even know our best 11 anymore. Hence why i haven't put many formations down. I'm very honest about this and whatever i say is Emery even going to care?


Power n Glory wrote:Back to Ozil. He can be a problematic player. I’ve criticised him a lot and agree with some of your points on his weak areas but I’ve come to accept that he’s never going to shoot and run at players like he’s 24 again. If we’ve going to use him, we have to accept the player we have on our hands with all his strengths and weaknesses. If he started to flag around the 60 minute mark, why didn’t the manager sub him off for Martinelli, a player that has bags of energy to continue pressing?


Because he's feeling the pressure. Its why I dont mind at all if Emery leaves. Fans have reacted so badly to him being taken off before he's not just afraid of that. Ozil entourage has be the key people behind Emery out in the first place. He's dealt with dropping him very poorly and is now in the shit because Xhaka is still crying and falling out with everyone not ready to play and he's short on midfielders and now has no option but to use Ozil.

Its a testament to how shit this club is being run from from the top all the way throughout the club. Player power is out of control here.


At least i have said enough not to have to repeat myself.

Power n Glory wrote:How many times does he have to see it not work? He has Martinelli as an option who is stronger in the tackle and an aggressive presser off the ball.


Martinelli is not an attacking midfielder. he's either a striker or winger.

Power n Glory wrote:I also don’t think Ozil is that bad pressing because his best performance came against Liverpool where he helped force a couple of turnovers in their half and we scored goals. Again, Ozil doesn’t have to play the full 90 minutes. Also, most teams don't switch formations so frequently because of injuries or needing a more defensive approach.


Because most teams are better run clubs that us who have 2-3 players for each position.
We on the other hand went from no wingers whatsoever to having 3-4 wingers, with the majority of our wingers bar Pepe being kids and having 4 attacking midfielders last season to 1 this season, 2 if you even count Ceballos who really is an attack minded CM.

Please, please, please don't refer to that 3-3 game vs Liverpool, i dunno where you got 'goals' from because it was 1-1 at the Emirates last year. Ozil has regressed even from his little bits of form last season.

Power n Glory wrote:We could tell our fullbacks to stay deep and also keep

We can continue on, but you have to really cut the patronising tone about not understanding defence when you’ve hardly said a word about bar Ozil not pressing hard enough and physical stature.


Well this is the Mesut Ozil thread is it not? :dizzy:

Power n Glory wrote:
elkanofan wrote:Xhaka is much maligned however he's our strongest midfielder and he's essential to the team if we want to be solid and good opposition using just 2 center backs.


I strongly disagree with that one. Physically strong but too slow to close a player down, too scared to receive the ball in tight areas, no discipline and a very limited player technically. I could go but you get the point.
[/quote]

- He's stronger than Torreria, not a better player outright really but stronger and doesn't get easily mugged for headers for obvious reasons.
- He's stronger than Matteo
- Willock will eventually become stroner than him but not now.
- Ceballos is a twig
- Ozil is a fairy.

Who's stronger than Xhaka in our midfield again?

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:31 pm
by jayramfootball
elkanofan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:@Elk

It was 3-5-2 but for arguments sakes let’s call it a 3-4-3 because that’s how it looked when defending off the ball. Patronising tone aside, isn’t this….

We lack height and strength in our midfield hence it gives the defence little protection so 3 at the back is a smart choice to have any solidity with the players we have at our disposal.

What I’ve already said here….

Back to the formation....If we’re going with a 3 at the back with two wing backs, that should be enough cover for the flanks and middle of the park so we’re not getting dragged all over the pitch and getting exposed. That’s the point of playing with more defensive players behind the ball.
I wouldn’t say we’re going around in circles that much. A long winded explanation of what you think is happening on the pitch is unnecessary. The idea behind the formation is very simple. It’s just about having more bodies behind the ball and defending in numbers so we’re not overly exposed when we haven’t got it.


Why you seem to persist which this without understand yourself the players good enough to work within the system is your own problem. This once again answers everything you queried me on regarding why we are changing formations so much.
Sticking to a system which is ineffective with the personal you have is stubborn and poor management. Changing things is what happens when players get injured and you previous lineups have clear deficiencies in player ability in certain areas.


Haven’t you just contradicted yourself here? You’ve avoided speaking about Baku in this long post and considering we can partially agree on the weak areas of Ozil, why in the world would the manager deploy him in that position again if you think he’s poor for the position?


This is you arguing for arguments sake now!

elkanofan wrote:With us, with the situation we have with Xhaka crying and being all soft and emotional and with Ceballos injured. That leaves us so short in midfield i genuinely don't even know our best 11 anymore. Hence why i haven't put many formations down. I'm very honest about this and whatever i say is Emery even going to care?


Power n Glory wrote:Back to Ozil. He can be a problematic player. I’ve criticised him a lot and agree with some of your points on his weak areas but I’ve come to accept that he’s never going to shoot and run at players like he’s 24 again. If we’ve going to use him, we have to accept the player we have on our hands with all his strengths and weaknesses. If he started to flag around the 60 minute mark, why didn’t the manager sub him off for Martinelli, a player that has bags of energy to continue pressing?

Because he's feeling the pressure. Its why I dont mind at all if Emery leaves. Fans have reacted so badly to him being taken off before he's not just afraid of that. Ozil entourage has be the key people behind Emery out in the first place. He's dealt with dropping him very poorly and is now in the shit because Xhaka is still crying and falling out with everyone not ready to play and he's short on midfielders and now has no option but to use Ozil.

Its a testament to how shit this club is being run from from the top all the way throughout the club. Player power is out of control here.


At least i have said enough not to have to repeat myself

How many times does he have to see it not work? He has Martinelli as an option who is stronger in the tackle and an aggressive presser off the ball.


Martinelli is not an attacking midfielder. he's either a striker or winger.

I also don’t think Ozil is that bad pressing because his best performance came against Liverpool where he helped force a couple of turnovers in their half and we scored goals. Again, Ozil doesn’t have to play the full 90 minutes. Also, most teams don't switch formations so frequently because of injuries or needing a more defensive approach.


Because most teams are better run clubs that us who have 2-3 players for each position.
We on the other hand went from no wingers whatsoever to having 3-4 wingers, with the majority of our wingers bar Pepe being kids and having 4 attacking midfielders last season to 1 this season, 2 if you even count Ceballos who really is an attack minded CM.

Please, please, please don't refer to that 3-3 game vs Liverpool, i dunno where you got 'goals' from because it was 1-1 at the Emirates last year. Ozil has regressed even from his little bits of form last season.

We could tell our fullbacks to stay deep and also keep

We can continue on, but you have to really cut the patronising tone about not understanding defence when you’ve hardly said a word about bar Ozil not pressing hard enough and physical stature.


Well this is the Mesut Ozil thread is it not? :dizzy:

Xhaka is much maligned however he's our strongest midfielder and he's essential to the team if we want to be solid and good opposition using just 2 center backs.

I strongly disagree with that one. Physically strong but too slow to close a player down, too scared to receive the ball in tight areas, no discipline and a very limited player technically. I could go but you get the point.


- He's stronger than Torreria, not a better player outright really but stronger and doesn't get easily mugged for headers for obvious reasons.
- He's stronger than Matteo
- Willock will eventually become stroner than him but not now.
- Ceballos is a twig
- Ozil is a fairy.

Who's stronger than Xhaka in our midfield again?


Xhaka has no ability to protect the ball at all - which is not really about strength (more technique). Strength is irrelevant.
Xhaka often dispossessed and also often in really bad areas.

Guendouzi is far better at protecting the ball and so is Ozil. Ozil doesn't need strength - he retains possession through skill and technique.

I think you place too much importance on raw strength, which gives away your lack of football knowledge.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:42 pm
by VCC
aniym wrote:This thread just has been going around in circles since 2016.

Ozil has a good game: "Wow, simply world class. None of our players have his talent".

Ozil is anonymous : he isn't Messi, he is not the type of player to change games on his own. Give him the right players to work with, the right manager, the right formation, the right opposition, and he'll do wonders.

Champions make it happen, losers let it happen

Thing is hard to judge where anyone is with the mess the club is on the pitch, the biggest threat to Arsenal atm is the coach. Once he is removed we should see what performance we can obtain from the squad, hopefully we get someone who can extract the performance from ozil he is capable of and get it on a regular basis

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:49 pm
by elkanofan
jayramfootball wrote:\

Xhaka has no ability to protect the ball at all - which is not really about strength (more technique). Strength is irrelevant.
Xhaka often dispossessed and also often in really bad areas.

Guendouzi is far better at protecting the ball and so is Ozil. Ozil doesn't need strength - he retains possession through skill and technique.

I think you place too much importance on raw strength, which gives away your lack of football knowledge.


:rofll: Well sometimes the comedy just writes itself.

Wow, its not just you had no idea why on earth i even mentioned Xhaka being our strongest midfielder in pure strength terms which is vital for the Premier League especially for defensive minded players in midfield. It was to give a reason why playing 3 at the back now is the best way forward until we get another midfielder since Xhaka being a emotional fudge and dosen't want to play and the rest of our midfielders are all weaklings bar the midget Torreria.

Ozil doesn't need strength - he retains possession through skill and technique.


:rofll: I'm sure Ozil's skills which he never uses anymore even on the ball will really help us be more defensively solid without possession :rofll:

Sorry but you do same some really moronic crap at times to defend your beloved Ozil. Try to at least understand the discussion before making a total fool you of yourself.

What a ridiculous comment :rofll: