Goonersworld

aniym wrote:

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?

Impressive. Shame 65% of those were for teams not called Arsenal.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after Lionel Messi. Again?

Give me a name?

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?

Impressive. Shame 65% of those were for teams not called Arsenal.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after Lionel Messi. Again?

Give me a name?

As useful in assists and goals as Iwobi next season, so there's a name

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.

If you watch the games where it says Ozil created some chances, you'd see what's counted. I have a hard time recalling games where Ozil has laid chances on a plate for players but they have fluffed the chance. I've watched games where he's been anonymous yet seen the stats after the game where it says he created 3 chances.

Just to start, I'm not arguing anything here, just stating why the stat was created from what I've read.


Well I know Auba and Laca missed some easy goals this season, I don't remember either who set them up for him, but I'm sure sometime during this season some assist were missed that could have been Ozils. Besides the point really though.


If you read the article I did, they give a pretty broad explanation of how they give the stat to a player. Which to me means it's kind of a flawed stat. I get what they were trying to do, but sometimes you can't put a statistic on a players performance, you just have to watch and see it with your own eyes and then decide. Also, sometimes even though a number 10 might not have a goal or assist, they still can have a great game controlling the midfield, not losing the ball, making great turns with it and decisions, but that will never show up on a stats sheet. And I think that is why they created this stat, to try and bring those type of games to every ones attention.

Emeryates wrote:

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?

Impressive. Shame 65% of those were for teams not called Arsenal.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after Lionel Messi. Again?

Give me a name?

As useful in assists and goals as Iwobi next season, so there's a name

Who will win the UCL next season?

Exactly.

2nd most assists after Messi. But that has to be ignored.

Tsk, tsk.

Please go back to crying Oh my Pep. Suits you better.

aniym wrote:

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?

Impressive. Shame 65% of those were for teams not called Arsenal.

63 per cent

StLGooner wrote:

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.

If you watch the games where it says Ozil created some chances, you'd see what's counted. I have a hard time recalling games where Ozil has laid chances on a plate for players but they have fluffed the chance. I've watched games where he's been anonymous yet seen the stats after the game where it says he created 3 chances.

Just to start, I'm not arguing anything here, just stating why the stat was created from what I've read.


Well I know Auba and Laca missed some easy goals this season, I don't remember either who set them up for him, but I'm sure sometime during this season some assist were missed that could have been Ozils. Besides the point really though.


If you read the article I did, they give a pretty broad explanation of how they give the stat to a player. Which to me means it's kind of a flawed stat. I get what they were trying to do, but sometimes you can't put a statistic on a players performance, you just have to watch and see it with your own eyes and then decide. Also, sometimes even though a number 10 might not have a goal or assist, they still can have a great game controlling the midfield, not losing the ball, making great turns with it and decisions, but that will never show up on a stats sheet. And I think that is why they created this stat, to try and bring those type of games to every ones attention.

I hear you and just adding what I make of the stat and how it doesn't always tally with the games I watch.

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:

Angelito wrote:

aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?

Impressive. Shame 65% of those were for teams not called Arsenal.

2nd most assists in the history of the game after Lionel Messi. Again?

Give me a name?

I can give you the name of a museum , which is where Ozil belongs in 2019.

Sadly, Ozil doesn't fit the modern game; it's largely the same for James. Traditional 10s have been cycled out. If you want to play a 10 nowadays, then he better be a B2B that is great in the final third or a second striker that can press.

Angelito wrote:Who will win the UCL next season?

La Demicocuarta

EliteKiller wrote: So where's the legend that is Ozil? .... here's some 2018/19 stats for all things attacking ..... seems our hero has gone missing again

Extremely misleading graph. Other than Savanier, there aren't any midfielders. According to this graph, we could say Modric, Kroos, Isco, Arthur, Eriksen, Pogba, and the Silva boys aren't elite.

Ozil has done nothing to justify a starting place, let alone 350k a week

LMAO wrote:Extremely misleading graph. Other than Savanier, there aren't any midfielders. According to this graph, we could say Modric, Kroos, Isco, Arthur, Eriksen, Pogba, and the Silva boys aren't elite.

I was using the graph to refute the never ending bullshit claim that Ozil is "the most creative player in the universe" ... he's not even in the top one hundred goals and assists for 2018/19 (and you can shove the mythical chances created where the sun don't shine) .... What he was, did, once upon a time, nobody's arguing about that .... but right now he's a busted flush, sadly one on which we went all-in ...

StLGooner wrote:

theHotHead wrote:

Power n Glory wrote:

theHotHead wrote:

Losmeister wrote:glad the chances created got used again.

pass to xhaka, he blooters 15 yds over from 25 yds...chance created.

The same stat is applied to EVERY player in the world, but but but because it is Ozil and Ozil leads it, the stat is somehow invalid

We've had this debate before but I have never heard anyone bring that particular stat up until we signed Ozil. In fact, to this day nobody looks at that stat for any other player unless it's Ozil.

And before we signed Ozil how many of us had access to stats ? Timed have changed, there are far more stats available and accessible by us all for free

Everyone that has a computer.

A quick google search comes up with an article from 2011 talking about this stat, specifically for the EPL. Ozil came in 2013.

And I'm not exactly against your Ozil argument, whatever that may be, I'm just against any bad argument, which this one seemed to be. Cheers!

Actually its a perfectly fine argument, because people were not arguing about these more advanced stats back in 2011!! For example, you can go on these sites and pull up stats that go back long before people even knew stats existed - it doesn't mean those stats were publically available at that time for that period.

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.

If you watch the games where it says Ozil created some chances, you'd see what's counted. I have a hard time recalling games where Ozil has laid chances on a plate for players but they have fluffed the chance. I've watched games where he's been anonymous yet seen the stats after the game where it says he created 3 chances.

Just to start, I'm not arguing anything here, just stating why the stat was created from what I've read.


Well I know Auba and Laca missed some easy goals this season, I don't remember either who set them up for him, but I'm sure sometime during this season some assist were missed that could have been Ozils. Besides the point really though.


If you read the article I did, they give a pretty broad explanation of how they give the stat to a player. Which to me means it's kind of a flawed stat. I get what they were trying to do, but sometimes you can't put a statistic on a players performance, you just have to watch and see it with your own eyes and then decide. Also, sometimes even though a number 10 might not have a goal or assist, they still can have a great game controlling the midfield, not losing the ball, making great turns with it and decisions, but that will never show up on a stats sheet. And I think that is why they created this stat, to try and bring those type of games to every ones attention.

I hear you and just adding what I make of the stat and how it doesn't always tally with the games I watch.

But if a stat does not tally with what you watch you can't instantly dismiss it. We went through this with the "Ozil is lazy" argument, then figures released by the club I believe had Ozil somewhere in the top 5 of distance covered - but still haters argued he was lazy because "he looked it" or because he "didn't run back". How can you argue against a fact!

theHotHead wrote:

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.

If you watch the games where it says Ozil created some chances, you'd see what's counted. I have a hard time recalling games where Ozil has laid chances on a plate for players but they have fluffed the chance. I've watched games where he's been anonymous yet seen the stats after the game where it says he created 3 chances.

Just to start, I'm not arguing anything here, just stating why the stat was created from what I've read.


Well I know Auba and Laca missed some easy goals this season, I don't remember either who set them up for him, but I'm sure sometime during this season some assist were missed that could have been Ozils. Besides the point really though.


If you read the article I did, they give a pretty broad explanation of how they give the stat to a player. Which to me means it's kind of a flawed stat. I get what they were trying to do, but sometimes you can't put a statistic on a players performance, you just have to watch and see it with your own eyes and then decide. Also, sometimes even though a number 10 might not have a goal or assist, they still can have a great game controlling the midfield, not losing the ball, making great turns with it and decisions, but that will never show up on a stats sheet. And I think that is why they created this stat, to try and bring those type of games to every ones attention.

I hear you and just adding what I make of the stat and how it doesn't always tally with the games I watch.

But if a stat does not tally with what you watch you can't instantly dismiss it. We went through this with the "Ozil is lazy" argument, then figures released by the club I believe had Ozil somewhere in the top 5 of distance covered - but still haters argued he was lazy because "he looked it" or because he "didn't run back". How can you argue against a fact!

Ozil runs the distance, he just never puts his head or foot in.

Here's a stat I'd like to see: number of duels and tackles won in the attacking third.

I bet all of the other usual suspects like eriksen and Silva etc have significantly better stats than ozil.

theHotHead wrote:

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:

Power n Glory wrote:

StLGooner wrote:From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.

If you watch the games where it says Ozil created some chances, you'd see what's counted. I have a hard time recalling games where Ozil has laid chances on a plate for players but they have fluffed the chance. I've watched games where he's been anonymous yet seen the stats after the game where it says he created 3 chances.

Just to start, I'm not arguing anything here, just stating why the stat was created from what I've read.


Well I know Auba and Laca missed some easy goals this season, I don't remember either who set them up for him, but I'm sure sometime during this season some assist were missed that could have been Ozils. Besides the point really though.


If you read the article I did, they give a pretty broad explanation of how they give the stat to a player. Which to me means it's kind of a flawed stat. I get what they were trying to do, but sometimes you can't put a statistic on a players performance, you just have to watch and see it with your own eyes and then decide. Also, sometimes even though a number 10 might not have a goal or assist, they still can have a great game controlling the midfield, not losing the ball, making great turns with it and decisions, but that will never show up on a stats sheet. And I think that is why they created this stat, to try and bring those type of games to every ones attention.

I hear you and just adding what I make of the stat and how it doesn't always tally with the games I watch.

But if a stat does not tally with what you watch you can't instantly dismiss it. We went through this with the "Ozil is lazy" argument, then figures released by the club I believe had Ozil somewhere in the top 5 of distance covered - but still haters argued he was lazy because "he looked it" or because he "didn't run back". How can you argue against a fact!

I'm not going to put much value in it if I can see how it's counted. Example, the Europa League final against Chelsea, that long distance shot Xhaka had in the first half, that counts as a chance created and I believe it was a simple sideways pass from Kola to set it up. Would you put much stock in that pass since Kola came away with 2 chances created in that final? Rewatch the highlights.