Goonersworld

Angelito wrote:

A redditor made this.

Very interesting.

Doesn't matter. Ozil doesn't score enough.

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:

Angelito wrote:

A redditor made this.

Very interesting.

Dat company



On a different note: Young Fabregas was a monster

What company, three of the guys you listed are also goalscorers (Ronaldo, Messi, Mueller)? Actually when talking about Ozil, I'm pretty sure Di Maria and Fabregas can be considered goalscorers too.

We should have gotten Cesc back. We needed a CM anyway, he wouldn’t have played more advanced.

Fenice wrote:We should have gotten Cesc back. We needed a CM anyway, he wouldn’t have played more advanced.

Maybe Wenger's biggest fvck up, and that's saying something.

theHotHead wrote:I bet you he will be. When you talk about the greats of the game they don't just include the very best players in the world, they talk about world class players. Players from memory for me that were world class players have always been spoken about. Take players like Robert Jarni, Georghe Hagi, Stoichkov, Robert Prosinecki, Michael Laudrup, Tomas Hassler, Enzo Scifo, etc etc, when you regale certain periods you cannot ignore players of this ilk, if you do then you don't know football, you don't just mention Maradona and Romario.

Because recent history has been dominated by Messi and Ronaldo, doesn't mean there have not been other top world class players that shouldn't get a mention, like Ibrahimovic, Pirlo, Lahm, Xavi and Ozil, etc. Ozil must be included because his numbers were off the charts and so was his vision, ability and his mercurial style.

But he won't and here's why ....

Unless you are a 'one club man' and even then as with Lahm and Xavi you're probably at a top club anyway, then what do all truly great players have in common?

Well look at your own list Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrhimovic, Pirlo, Lahm, Xavi and then look at where they played at the peak of their careers:

Messi - Barcelona
Ronaldo - RM
Ibrahimovic - Inter / Barca
Pirlo - AC Milan
Lahm - Bayern
Xavi - Barca

they were all at clubs who were dominating both domestically and in Europe .... in every case they were very much the driving forces behind those clubs' success

So how about Ozil ... he's spent the golden years of his carer at Arsenal ... during that time we haven't dominated anything, and not even the most rabid Ozil fan would claim he has been the driving force at Arsenal ... he's been a great cameo player but never a driving force.

That was his choice, when RM no longer wanted him he could have gone to a European super club but he didn't, for that reason alone he will never be considered one of the worlds very top players .... at their primes Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrhimovic, Pirlo, Lahm, Xavi >>>>>> Ozil all day long.

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Fenice wrote:We should have gotten Cesc back. We needed a CM anyway, he wouldn’t have played more advanced.

Maybe Wenger's biggest fvck up, and that's saying something.

Nah

One of the things he got right

EK thats your opinion, but I think it is wrong.

Firstly Zlatan was not the driving force behind Barca's success, be wasn't there long enough and they were already dominating before he got there.

Next, you talk about those players being classed ad the very top players in the world in their prime and that Ozil wasn't! Absolute tosh. You judge players on their roles. Lahm was indeed one of if not the best RB in the world. Pirlo was the best deep lying playmaker in the world. Xavi was the best CM in the world at being the link between defensive and offense, bringing the ball out.

Mesut Ozil was the best central attacking midfielder in world football. His stats at Werder Bremen broke records, his stats at Real Madrid broke records. He dominated stats in Premier League when he came to Arsenal. How can he not be classed as one of the best if not the best CAM in the world when he was in his prime??? Who was better than him?

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Fenice wrote:We should have gotten Cesc back. We needed a CM anyway, he wouldn’t have played more advanced.

Maybe Wenger's biggest fvck up, and that's saying something.

Totally agree. When you look at the players we had at the time none of them were on Cesc's level, Wenger should've brought him home. Monumental f**k up!

theHotHead wrote:Mesut Ozil was the best central attacking midfielder in world football. His stats at Werder Bremen broke records, his stats at Real Madrid broke records. He dominated stats in Premier League when he came to Arsenal. How can he not be classed as one of the best if not the best CAM in the world when he was in his prime??? Who was better than him?

That's your opinion but it's not what the vast majority think ...

Has Ozil ever one the Ballon D'or? has he ever even made the top ten? .... no he hasn't so clearly his peers just don't agree with you ... it's five years since he was even made the final shortlist. how is that the mark of "the best CAM in the world" it just isn't ....

Your opinion is perfectly valid ... but equally you have to accept the evidence that the rest of the footballing world simply do not agree.

EliteKiller wrote:

theHotHead wrote:Mesut Ozil was the best central attacking midfielder in world football. His stats at Werder Bremen broke records, his stats at Real Madrid broke records. He dominated stats in Premier League when he came to Arsenal. How can he not be classed as one of the best if not the best CAM in the world when he was in his prime??? Who was better than him?

That's your opinion but it's not what the vast majority think ...

Has Ozil ever one the Ballon D'or? has he ever even made the top ten? .... no he hasn't so clearly his peers just don't agree with you ... it's five years since he was even made the final shortlist. how is that the mark of "the best CAM in the world" it just isn't ....

Your opinion is perfectly valid ... but equally you have to accept the evidence that the rest of the footballing world simply do not agree.

Well said, makes total sense.

EK Balon d'Or votes are proof of nothing at all !!

Balon d'or
2009 -
2010 - Philip Lahm 22nd, Mesut Ozil 13th.
2011 - Lahm not in the top 20, Ozil 11th.
2012 - Lahm not in the top 20, Ozil 14th.
2013 - Lahm 14th, Ozil 16th.
2014 - Lahm 6th, Ozil not in top 20.
2015 - neither player in top 20
2016 - netiher player in top 20.

Lahm has appeared in the top 20 3 times to Ozil's 4. Lahm has been one of the best fullbacks for close to a decade. The Balon d'or is a load of old tosh that doesn't prove anything.

Defensive players hardly ever get the required recognition when it comes to awards like the Balon d'Or.

It's a different story for attacking players.

Since 2000 Francesco Totti has finished in the following positions:

2000 - 14th. 2001 - 5th. 2002 - Not in. 2003 - 18th. 2004 - Not in. 2005 - Not in. 2006 - Not in. 2007 - 10th. 2008 - Not in. 2009 - Not in. 2010 - Not in. 2011 - Not in. 2012 - Not in. 2013 - Not in. 2014 - Not in.

For a player who was consistently one of the best players in Italy from 2000 to around 2013, to only reach the top 20-25 in the Ballon d'or nominations 4 times is a total piss take, especially when you consider that Asamoah Gyan at Sunderland got in the list in a year Totti didn't as did Kanu at Arsenal - as fab a player as he was he was nowhere near as consistent as Totti.

theHotHead wrote:Since 2000 Francesco Totti has finished in the following positions:

2000 - 14th. 2001 - 5th. 2002 - Not in. 2003 - 18th. 2004 - Not in. 2005 - Not in. 2006 - Not in. 2007 - 10th. 2008 - Not in. 2009 - Not in. 2010 - Not in. 2011 - Not in. 2012 - Not in. 2013 - Not in. 2014 - Not in.

For a player who was consistently one of the best players in Italy from 2000 to around 2013, to only reach the top 20-25 in the Ballon d'or nominations 4 times is a total piss take, especially when you consider that Asamoah Gyan at Sunderland got in the list in a year Totti didn't as did Kanu at Arsenal - as fab a player as he was he was nowhere near as consistent as Totti.

Just stop - you claimed Ozil was the best attacking midfielder in the world - that's your opinion and it's fair enough.

It was pointed out to you that the vast majority of the football world didn't agree, evidenced by the fact that Ozil had never been recognized as even close to 'the world's best' by his fellow professionals in their annual vote ... that's fact not fiction ...

What Totti did or didn't do has nothing to do with Ozil - FYI Totti is the second highest goalscorer in Italian league history, how is Ozil at scoring goals? Totti is a revered as a 'one club player' know as 'the captain' and 'the gladiator' ... Ozil a captain or a gladiator? hardly ... and nobody is claiming that Totti was ever the world's greatest attacking midfield player, yet still most people would rank him above Ozil

and as for Lahn? pretty sure he's never been called the 'world's best attacking midfielder' even by his mum .....

EK learn to argue. This is tiresome. I used Totti as an example as to why the Ballon d'or awards don't prove shit, I used Lahm himself who was one of the best fullbacks in the world for a lengthy period and he didn't appear much in the shortlist

Mesut Ozil was one of the best cams in the world, nothing you say will change it. Record breaking cam.