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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Goonerz » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:54 am

Andrew wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Andrew wrote:I know football.
There is a reason I focus so much on Özil. He is pivotal to our game .
It's not a coincidence that we do badly against good opposition with Özil as playmaker. Not a f***ing coincidence.
Nothing personal against the guy at all.
Remove him in big games and you'll see us do better. I guarantee you that.


So it was Ozil's fault our defence went missing for 10mins against Utd?

It was Ozil's fault our chances all hit the post etc etc and DeGea had a great game?

Was Spurs not a big game?

You say you know football but I'm beginning to wonder, if your commenting on us setting up like we did against Chelsea then that's the managers call, not Ozil's.

Also Wenger was damned if he did damned if he don't, if he had sat Ozil out to park the bus and he lost 3-1 he'd of been crucified.


Not his fault for individual mistakes obviously, but it's more complicated than that.
The way we are set up when he's our playmaker makes our back 4 (3) more vulnerable against good opposition.
Xhaka beeing in there doesn't help either.

For me Ozil has addressed this now. It’s like I’m watching a completely different player. Never have i ever enjoyed watching Ozil like i have in the last 3 or so games at Arsenal. He has turned into a real modern attacking midfielder, he is not invisible or anonymous for large chunks of games. He is now dominating games, tackling, tracking back with real intensity and purpose, creating, assisting, shooting more, and buzzing all over the field etc.

I can’t ask for anymore from the guy, he has been superb lately. I give me MOTM in all of our last 3 matches. Been brilliant overall. This is the ozil some of us have been advocating for for seasons. Our best player right now and I hope this new ozil becomes the norm for the rest of the season. Again, I can’t even find anything to criticise about him. Seems to have addressed all my concerns.
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Marsbar100 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:47 am

Goonerz wrote:
Andrew wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Andrew wrote:I know football.
There is a reason I focus so much on Özil. He is pivotal to our game .
It's not a coincidence that we do badly against good opposition with Özil as playmaker. Not a f***ing coincidence.
Nothing personal against the guy at all.
Remove him in big games and you'll see us do better. I guarantee you that.


So it was Ozil's fault our defence went missing for 10mins against Utd?

It was Ozil's fault our chances all hit the post etc etc and DeGea had a great game?

Was Spurs not a big game?

You say you know football but I'm beginning to wonder, if your commenting on us setting up like we did against Chelsea then that's the managers call, not Ozil's.

Also Wenger was damned if he did damned if he don't, if he had sat Ozil out to park the bus and he lost 3-1 he'd of been crucified.


Not his fault for individual mistakes obviously, but it's more complicated than that.
The way we are set up when he's our playmaker makes our back 4 (3) more vulnerable against good opposition.
Xhaka beeing in there doesn't help either.

For me Ozil has addressed this now. It’s like I’m watching a completely different player. Never have i ever enjoyed watching Ozil like i have in the last 3 or so games at Arsenal. He has turned into a real modern attacking midfielder, he is not invisible or anonymous for large chunks of games. He is now dominating games, tackling, tracking back with real intensity and purpose, creating, assisting, shooting more, and buzzing all over the field etc.

I can’t ask for anymore from the guy, he has been superb lately. I give me MOTM in all of our last 3 matches. Been brilliant overall. This is the ozil some of us have been advocating for for seasons. Our best player right now and I hope this new ozil becomes the norm for the rest of the season. Again, I can’t even find anything to criticise about him. Seems to have addressed all my concerns.

Pretty much it's funny that people say he shouldn't do defensive work or anything as he is a creative player but when he starts working hard and has hunger his performances become world class.
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Goonerz » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:21 am

GoonerAlexis wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't think that is the widely used general understanding/meaning of a "luxury player"

I know, but have you notice it's only used for players to disparage them? No one calls Hazard a luxury player when Chelsea's winning the league, no one throws that label at KdB, but when the going gets tough like it did in Mou's final season at Chelsea, this label comes out

The old ozil was a luxury player. KDB, Hazard etc are not luxury players. You only become a luxury player if you are just good at one thing. Hazard and KDB are not that. The old “Only creating chances Ozil” is the epitome of a luxury player.

The current Ozil is now in the Hazard, KDB category of a crucial player. This current Ozil is proving that he is better than the old sloth / koala bear ozil.

And Hazard only became a luxury player the season Mou was sacked because he had downed tools, he looked uninterested like the old ozil. But once he rediscovered his old dominant self the label was no more. Any player can become a luxury or liability.
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Losmeister » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:57 am

Goonerz wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't think that is the widely used general understanding/meaning of a "luxury player"

I know, but have you notice it's only used for players to disparage them? No one calls Hazard a luxury player when Chelsea's winning the league, no one throws that label at KdB, but when the going gets tough like it did in Mou's final season at Chelsea, this label comes out

The old ozil was a luxury player. KDB, Hazard etc are not luxury players. You only become a luxury player if you are just good at one thing. Hazard and KDB are not that. The old “Only creating chances Ozil” is the epitome of a luxury player.

The current Ozil is now in the Hazard, KDB category of a crucial player. This current Ozil is proving that he is better than the old sloth / koala bear ozil.

And Hazard only became a luxury player the season Mou was sacked because he had downed tools, he looked uninterested like the old ozil. But once he rediscovered his old dominant self the label was no more. Any player can become a luxury or liability.


small pt. not ANY player can become "luxury" as you define it, the native talent must be high and beyond debate first
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Losmeister » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:12 pm

and ANY player

CAB become a liability
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby theHotHead » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:36 pm

Goonerz wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't think that is the widely used general understanding/meaning of a "luxury player"

I know, but have you notice it's only used for players to disparage them? No one calls Hazard a luxury player when Chelsea's winning the league, no one throws that label at KdB, but when the going gets tough like it did in Mou's final season at Chelsea, this label comes out

The old ozil was a luxury player. KDB, Hazard etc are not luxury players. You only become a luxury player if you are just good at one thing. Hazard and KDB are not that. The old “Only creating chances Ozil” is the epitome of a luxury player.

The current Ozil is now in the Hazard, KDB category of a crucial player. This current Ozil is proving that he is better than the old sloth / koala bear ozil.

And Hazard only became a luxury player the season Mou was sacked because he had downed tools, he looked uninterested like the old ozil. But once he rediscovered his old dominant self the label was no more. Any player can become a luxury or liability.

Thats not what a luxury player is, a luxury player isn't a player that is good at only one thing. If a player is only good at tackling then that doesn't make them a luxury player. Messi can't defend for shit, doesn't make him a luxury player. The term is used for offensive players that offer little to nothing in the defensive area and if they are not being creative they contribute zero. But I don't necessarily agree with that because people look at stats and if Ozil doesn't score or get an assist - and he is not tackling back, people complain about him. Not his fault we have some of the most wasteful players in the league playing for us.

Don't get too comfy with this talk of "new" Ozil, thats not Ozil's game, the real Ozil will be back soon and I will be just as happy to see him play for us as I am now. Imagine wanting Ozil to tackle back, what kind of foolishness am I reading !!!
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Andrew » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:17 pm

Goonerz wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't think that is the widely used general understanding/meaning of a "luxury player"

I know, but have you notice it's only used for players to disparage them? No one calls Hazard a luxury player when Chelsea's winning the league, no one throws that label at KdB, but when the going gets tough like it did in Mou's final season at Chelsea, this label comes out

The old ozil was a luxury player. KDB, Hazard etc are not luxury players. You only become a luxury player if you are just good at one thing. Hazard and KDB are not that. The old “Only creating chances Ozil” is the epitome of a luxury player.

The current Ozil is now in the Hazard, KDB category of a crucial player. This current Ozil is proving that he is better than the old sloth / koala bear ozil.

And Hazard only became a luxury player the season Mou was sacked because he had downed tools, he looked uninterested like the old ozil. But once he rediscovered his old dominant self the label was no more. Any player can become a luxury or liability.


He is still the exact same player he was a couple of months ago. Same liability
I don't buy this "new Özil " nonsense based on a couple of games. He's had good spells before.
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Goonerz » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:33 am

Marsbar100 wrote:
Goonerz wrote:
Andrew wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Andrew wrote:I know football.
There is a reason I focus so much on Özil. He is pivotal to our game .
It's not a coincidence that we do badly against good opposition with Özil as playmaker. Not a f***ing coincidence.
Nothing personal against the guy at all.
Remove him in big games and you'll see us do better. I guarantee you that.


So it was Ozil's fault our defence went missing for 10mins against Utd?

It was Ozil's fault our chances all hit the post etc etc and DeGea had a great game?

Was Spurs not a big game?

You say you know football but I'm beginning to wonder, if your commenting on us setting up like we did against Chelsea then that's the managers call, not Ozil's.

Also Wenger was damned if he did damned if he don't, if he had sat Ozil out to park the bus and he lost 3-1 he'd of been crucified.


Not his fault for individual mistakes obviously, but it's more complicated than that.
The way we are set up when he's our playmaker makes our back 4 (3) more vulnerable against good opposition.
Xhaka beeing in there doesn't help either.

For me Ozil has addressed this now. It’s like I’m watching a completely different player. Never have i ever enjoyed watching Ozil like i have in the last 3 or so games at Arsenal. He has turned into a real modern attacking midfielder, he is not invisible or anonymous for large chunks of games. He is now dominating games, tackling, tracking back with real intensity and purpose, creating, assisting, shooting more, and buzzing all over the field etc.

I can’t ask for anymore from the guy, he has been superb lately. I give me MOTM in all of our last 3 matches. Been brilliant overall. This is the ozil some of us have been advocating for for seasons. Our best player right now and I hope this new ozil becomes the norm for the rest of the season. Again, I can’t even find anything to criticise about him. Seems to have addressed all my concerns.

Pretty much it's funny that people say he shouldn't do defensive work or anything as he is a creative player but when he starts working hard and has hunger his performances become world class.

I just don’t take them seriously. Everything they kept saying Ozil can’t do he’s doing now. But it’s us that have no clue about football. All because we ask for much more from him, and we know he is better than the Cringeworthy Excuses 24/7 ozil.

My parents have always said to me, “Just because you are our child does not mean we will let you do whatever you like blindly. Just because we can be critical does not mean we hate you”.

If ozil can keep playing at this level for the majority of our games is surely only good for us. Isn’t it? Or we just want the old excuses galore ozil?

Smh
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Goonerz » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:18 am

theHotHead wrote:
Goonerz wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't think that is the widely used general understanding/meaning of a "luxury player"

I know, but have you notice it's only used for players to disparage them? No one calls Hazard a luxury player when Chelsea's winning the league, no one throws that label at KdB, but when the going gets tough like it did in Mou's final season at Chelsea, this label comes out

The old ozil was a luxury player. KDB, Hazard etc are not luxury players. You only become a luxury player if you are just good at one thing. Hazard and KDB are not that. The old “Only creating chances Ozil” is the epitome of a luxury player.

The current Ozil is now in the Hazard, KDB category of a crucial player. This current Ozil is proving that he is better than the old sloth / koala bear ozil.

And Hazard only became a luxury player the season Mou was sacked because he had downed tools, he looked uninterested like the old ozil. But once he rediscovered his old dominant self the label was no more. Any player can become a luxury or liability.

Thats not what a luxury player is, a luxury player isn't a player that is good at only one thing. If a player is only good at tackling then that doesn't make them a luxury player. Messi can't defend for shit, doesn't make him a luxury player. The term is used for offensive players that offer little to nothing in the defensive area and if they are not being creative they contribute zero. But I don't necessarily agree with that because people look at stats and if Ozil doesn't score or get an assist - and he is not tackling back, people complain about him. Not his fault we have some of the most wasteful players in the league playing for us.

Don't get too comfy with this talk of "new" Ozil, thats not Ozil's game, the real Ozil will be back soon and I will be just as happy to see him play for us as I am now. Imagine wanting Ozil to tackle back, what kind of foolishness am I reading !!!

I think you are just in denial. Ozil is proving you wrong right now and don’t have the guts to admit that some of us have been right all a long. If ozil can play like he is doing right now or how he does with Germany then why would you accept the old normal full of excuses ozil?

He is showing that he can do what we his critics have been calling for for seasons. And we will go back to criticising him again if he goes back to the normal “but but he needs Ronaldo or the full Germany team to look good”. If he can play like he has been playing in his recent matches for Arsenal and Germany then why then go back to the koala bear mode again?

And stop it. If Ozil did what Messi or Ronaldo do then no one would ask him for extra input. The problem with that comparison is that Messi is a 40-50 goals a season player on top of getting as many assists, chances created as ozil each season. Messi can be dominant in games most of the time etc.

To me if a midfielder is not a regular goal scorer then they have to do much more in other parts of the game to compensate. Which means being more involved and dominant. Controlling the game etc.
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Goonerz » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:27 am

Andrew wrote:
Goonerz wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't think that is the widely used general understanding/meaning of a "luxury player"

I know, but have you notice it's only used for players to disparage them? No one calls Hazard a luxury player when Chelsea's winning the league, no one throws that label at KdB, but when the going gets tough like it did in Mou's final season at Chelsea, this label comes out

The old ozil was a luxury player. KDB, Hazard etc are not luxury players. You only become a luxury player if you are just good at one thing. Hazard and KDB are not that. The old “Only creating chances Ozil” is the epitome of a luxury player.

The current Ozil is now in the Hazard, KDB category of a crucial player. This current Ozil is proving that he is better than the old sloth / koala bear ozil.

And Hazard only became a luxury player the season Mou was sacked because he had downed tools, he looked uninterested like the old ozil. But once he rediscovered his old dominant self the label was no more. Any player can become a luxury or liability.


He is still the exact same player he was a couple of months ago. Same liability
I don't buy this "new Özil " nonsense based on a couple of games. He's had good spells before.

Sorry mate but I don’t subscribe to that. When a player deserves their credit i guve it to them. To me he’s been a conpletely different energetic player in 3 straight games. He might go back to the sloth ozil in coming games but on the evidence of the last 3 games he has been amazing. So i will give him all the credit he deserves. Can’t fault him whatsoever right now.
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Andrew » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:27 pm

Told you he was just the same.

He should go. Plain and simple.
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Losmeister » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:40 pm

how'd he play today?
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Andrew » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Losmeister wrote:how'd he play today?


same old
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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby Sims » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:54 pm

Losmeister wrote:how'd he play today?


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Re: Mesut Özil (11)

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:55 pm

Sims wrote:
Losmeister wrote:how'd he play today?


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