The Wizard of Özil

[theHotHead]

What legacy stagnate?? People that acknowledge Ozil's achievements and generally his fans will do nothing of the sort, its only those that don't like him that will insist that his legacy is tainted or whatever.

Ozil's legacy will be his purple patch during his mid-twenties - six years 2009/10 to 2015/616 - even Ozil 'haters' can't deny he was one of the world's best during that period. Why the term stagnate? Well compare Ozil with the true modern legends Ronaldo and Messi each with over 15 seasons at the very top table, each still playing in every game well into their thirties .... that's the difference between being a 'legend' and having a decent 'legacy' ....

Arsenal "legends" are few, they are the guys who put in over 500 appearances, or the guys who banged in over 150 goals ... players who played in every game they could until they no longer wore The Arsenal shirt - does Ozil even come close to reaching that status?

Ozil won't be an Arsenal legend, but for many of us he will be remembered as being the first world class player we bought in his prime from a bigger club than us in the Emirates era !!! He will be remembered for being the catalyst for us winning trophies in the Emirates, he will be remembered for making us believe again.

[elkanofan]

He will have a marmite legacy.

His fans will worship him wherever he goes

Then these those like me who appreciated the good times and significant transfer in 2013 but feel genuinely annoyed and insulted after his last 3 seasons.

He's not a legend here. No way. Had a good patch in his career when he was still world class level and the best assister on the planet. He will be remembered well and rightly for 2014-17 or should i say, it all end downhill slowly in a ugly away.

[Marsbar100]

I don't mind calling him a legend, we started winning trophies when he came, he def would have been a legend if we won in 15/16, it wasn't really his fault we didn't win that year.

He has been a massive let down since he signed his last contract though

[Callum]

Henry and Fabregas left us when they were more in demand, and they went to a more competitive, successful club. I'm sure they both enjoyed pay rises as well.

Ozil's "loyalty" extends to no decent club wanting to go near him because he's paid a fortune despite him being worth a fraction of that. It's his right to stay and earn that money, but this idea that he's here because he's so loyal to Arsenal is a joke.

Also, jayram, I find it funny that you criticized Aubameyang for his greed in wanting as big a salary as possible, but when Ozil did the exact same thing it's more a case of his loyalty to the club? How does that work?

I don't recall Ozil going on strike to force a move away from his club. That is the reason I question Auba's character.
Let's also remember that Auba wanted to leave (not stay), but his Barca and Chelsea dreams did not materialise. With Ozil he had options in 2018, including Man Utd, but chose to stay. Auba is staying because he couldn't get the move he wanted.

Ozil stayed because we offered him 350k p/w and made him one of the best paid players in world football. Aubameyang is staying because we're paying him a huge amount of money too.

To indicate one stayed because of their loyalty and love for Arsenal and the other because he just couldn't get a move anywhere else is laughable. Pure revisionism.

[Callum]

Oh, and apparently Aubameyang did turn down other offers to stay at Arsenal...

[Ach]

Auba signs what?

This Fabrizio guy has proven to be someone who knows little

[Angelito]

As a fan, I'm not criticising Ozil's trophy count and achievements. As you point out, it's a rare achievement.

I don't want to make this too deep or complex, I simply look at the players Ozil often gets compared to when speaking of World Class players.

From what we're aware of, he's still fit with no long term injury issues and relatively young. He's not even 32 yet and has missed a lot of football in recent years and looks no closer to getting regular first team football. I look at Henry in comparison. He was a World Cup winner, a European Cup winner, and Ligue 1 winner at a young age. Although he won Prem titles and FA Cups with Arsenal he was still pushing himself for more and didn't tap out because he already had a glowing CV. He pushed for that CL title with Barca, learned a new system and pushed his body further despite the age and when his career at Barca was over, despite not being at the highest level, he still kept playing and moved to New York.

It was the same for Cesc. Another player that had a glowing CV at a pretty young age. At the very least, the desire to play football was still there even if not for a top club.

With Ozil, I simply can't understand the wasted years not playing football. Essentially, it sounds like your saying because he's won the highest accolade the desire to prove something has gone. Maybe that's the thing coaches see or believe about him, hence why he's not getting picked?

But you're assuming that he is wasting his career, or doesn't want to play. If he genuinely wants to stay and believes he can fight for his place, what is wrong with that?

The basis of an argument cannot be sheer assumptions. Ozil was playing under Mikel until the lockdown. Since then, the scenario has changed. If he wants to stay to fight for his place, he very well has the right to do so. It also shows his resolve and commitment.

It's not black and white.

Ozil's achievements in football is a response to fans who believe his achievements aren't significant. A World Cup winner and a generational talent obviously won't sit back and relax thinking he's won it all. That's another fallacy people are using to put words in my mouth.

Maybe Ozil is one of those people who believes he can still serve Arsenal for the remainder of his contract? It's not a daft idea at all.

In principle, I believe Ozil should leave. But I'm talking as a fan. The circumstances at Arsenal since Wenger's departure is not something I'm aware of. Hence, I can't comment on that.

He's resolved to fight for his place. He's not refusing to play. It's a totally different situation.

Henry and Fabregas left us when they were more in demand, and they went to a more competitive, successful club. I'm sure they both enjoyed pay rises as well.

Ozil's "loyalty" extends to no decent club wanting to go near him because he's paid a fortune despite him being worth a fraction of that. It's his right to stay and earn that money, but this idea that he's here because he's so loyal to Arsenal is a joke.

Also, jayram, I find it funny that you criticized Aubameyang for his greed in wanting as big a salary as possible, but when Ozil did the exact same thing it's more a case of his loyalty to the club? How does that work?

I don't expect strawman arguments from you. Cesc was 24 when he left. He wanted to join the most elite side in modern football history. If Cesc had just wanted to leave, we'd have gotten £50m for him. Real Madrid wanted him and Mancini publicly stated that he'd be his dream signing. While Cesc joined Barca in his peak, Ozil joined Arsenal in his peak. Like Cesc, PSG and United wanted him, but he wanted to play for Wenger.

As for Henry, he was 29 when he left and he didn't want to stay at Arsenal for the rebuild. More importantly, Henry's attitude of being bigger than the club hurt us. If we had money back then, we'd have won the League title the subsequent season.

Different circumstances.

Ozil joined us in his prime unlike Henry and Cesc.

Very different circumstances.

At this stage, it's wise for some to simply accept that they don't appreciate Ozil. For others, that they simply want Ozil to go instead of finding round-about ways to paint Ozil as a failure here, or to question the work ethic and commitment of one of the greatest attacking midfielders of all time. It would simply help in killing off these pretentious discussions.

[Power n Glory]

As a fan, I'm not criticising Ozil's trophy count and achievements. As you point out, it's a rare achievement.

I don't want to make this too deep or complex, I simply look at the players Ozil often gets compared to when speaking of World Class players.

From what we're aware of, he's still fit with no long term injury issues and relatively young. He's not even 32 yet and has missed a lot of football in recent years and looks no closer to getting regular first team football. I look at Henry in comparison. He was a World Cup winner, a European Cup winner, and Ligue 1 winner at a young age. Although he won Prem titles and FA Cups with Arsenal he was still pushing himself for more and didn't tap out because he already had a glowing CV. He pushed for that CL title with Barca, learned a new system and pushed his body further despite the age and when his career at Barca was over, despite not being at the highest level, he still kept playing and moved to New York.

It was the same for Cesc. Another player that had a glowing CV at a pretty young age. At the very least, the desire to play football was still there even if not for a top club.

With Ozil, I simply can't understand the wasted years not playing football. Essentially, it sounds like your saying because he's won the highest accolade the desire to prove something has gone. Maybe that's the thing coaches see or believe about him, hence why he's not getting picked?

But you're assuming that he is wasting his career, or doesn't want to play. If he genuinely wants to stay and believes he can fight for his place, what is wrong with that?

The basis of an argument cannot be sheer assumptions. Ozil was playing under Mikel until the lockdown. Since then, the scenario has changed. If he wants to stay to fight for his place, he very well has the right to do so. It also shows his resolve and commitment.

It's not black and white.

Ozil's achievements in football is a response to fans who believe his achievements aren't significant. A World Cup winner and a generational talent obviously won't sit back and relax thinking he's won it all. That's another fallacy people are using to put words in my mouth.

Maybe Ozil is one of those people who believes he can still serve Arsenal for the remainder of his contract? It's not a daft idea at all.

In principle, I believe Ozil should leave. But I'm talking as a fan. The circumstances at Arsenal since Wenger's departure is not something I'm aware of. Hence, I can't comment on that.

He's resolved to fight for his place. He's not refusing to play. It's a totally different situation.

You're making as many assumptions as I am. You're assuming he's not wasting his career but have also said before that he still has at least 3 years left a decent level. So since the clock is ticking on his career and he's still capable of playing at a decent level, am I wrong to assume he's wasting the years he has left to play? What's left to deduct from that scenario when simply talking about playing football? You've said yourself that you think he should leave and that his image is taking a hit, so am I wrong to look on this saga this way? You can see how it looks from the outside looking in.

At nearly 32, he can still play at a decent level for the next 3 years. If not a perma sale, a loan elsewhere would be good for him.

That's what I suggested. He should have left/should leave.

While I understand that he enjoys life in London, and it's not a bad thing, his image is really taking a hit.

Oz could have easily joined an Italian side in the summer of 2019 if he so wished.

That's the advantage of having a super agent like Raiola or Mendes. They know when to advise their players and how to build their images, especially elite players.

You've also made a lot of assumptions about his character which isn't far off from what everyone else is doing. It's just framed in a different light but still assumptions. Which brings us back to how we got this point.

He doesn't need to further his career. He's done it all in football. Top-5 in the assists table. A World Cup winner. One of the greatest creators the game has ever seen. The most successful Arsenal player of the Emirates era.

The discussion around his achievements stems from the above statement you made. In your eyes, Ozil has nothing else to prove. That's cool if you feel that way but he's a player that divides opinion and I don't know how much of that will change in his final year and especially if he's not playing.

Ozil is simply Ozil. I do believe that he thinks he can make a comeback at Arsenal before his contract expires. He just strikes me as one of those naive geniuses who is a genius at what they do, yet are totally out of touch with the reality of their profession.

People on this board are obsessed with their hatred for the man. Even when he doesn't play, he's criticized. Of course, none of this matters to Ozil. He's done it all in football.

I don't know what his motivation is to see out this contract. If as you assume, he's done it all and doesn't care about the criticism, isn't that a potential motivational issue that's keeping him from the first team? Even if we assume he loves Arsenal and London, the fact remains, his contract ends really soon so unless there is a massive turnaround in attitudes from him all parties involved, he definitely won't play again for Arsenal this time next year.

[alexafc12]

If we sign Partey I think Ozil would have an easier time getting back in the team as we may start to revert to playing a 4-3-3- or 4-2-3-1

Auba Laca Pepe

Ozil

Xhaka Partey

[VCC]

Wonder how many games of fortnight Ozil has played during this thread

[Callum]

I don't expect strawman arguments from you. Cesc was 24 when he left. He wanted to join the most elite side in modern football history. If Cesc had just wanted to leave, we'd have gotten £50m for him. Real Madrid wanted him and Mancini publicly stated that he'd be his dream signing. While Cesc joined Barca in his peak, Ozil joined Arsenal in his peak. Like Cesc, PSG and United wanted him, but he wanted to play for Wenger.

As for Henry, he was 29 when he left and he didn't want to stay at Arsenal for the rebuild. More importantly, Henry's attitude of being bigger than the club hurt us. If we had money back then, we'd have won the League title the subsequent season.

Different circumstances.

Ozil joined us in his prime unlike Henry and Cesc.

Very different circumstances.

At this stage, it's wise for some to simply accept that they don't appreciate Ozil. For others, that they simply want Ozil to go instead of finding round-about ways to paint Ozil as a failure here, or to question the work ethic and commitment of one of the greatest attacking midfielders of all time. It would simply help in killing off these pretentious discussions.

Ozil joined us in his prime because Madrid wanted rid of him and we stumped up the cash. Wenger undoubtedly played a big part in him arriving too.

For the record, I'm not trying to paint Ozil or disloyal or whatever, I'm stating that he stayed here due to money just as Aubameyang has. It's nearly always the key factor in modern football.

[jayramfootball]

Henry and Fabregas left us when they were more in demand, and they went to a more competitive, successful club. I'm sure they both enjoyed pay rises as well.

Ozil's "loyalty" extends to no decent club wanting to go near him because he's paid a fortune despite him being worth a fraction of that. It's his right to stay and earn that money, but this idea that he's here because he's so loyal to Arsenal is a joke.

Also, jayram, I find it funny that you criticized Aubameyang for his greed in wanting as big a salary as possible, but when Ozil did the exact same thing it's more a case of his loyalty to the club? How does that work?

I don't recall Ozil going on strike to force a move away from his club. That is the reason I question Auba's character.
Let's also remember that Auba wanted to leave (not stay), but his Barca and Chelsea dreams did not materialise. With Ozil he had options in 2018, including Man Utd, but chose to stay. Auba is staying because he couldn't get the move he wanted.

Ozil stayed because we offered him 350k p/w and made him one of the best paid players in world football. Aubameyang is staying because we're paying him a huge amount of money too.

To indicate one stayed because of their loyalty and love for Arsenal and the other because he just couldn't get a move anywhere else is laughable. Pure revisionism.

You avoided the point.
Auba has a history of being an utter sh*t when trying to force a move away from Dortmund.

As for Ozil, he had options 2 years ago and chose to stay with us.
You have no idea at all about his motivations but are claiming you do. Shoddy.

[Callum]

You avoided the point.
Auba has a history of being an utter sh*t when trying to force a move away from Dortmund.

As for Ozil, he had options 2 years ago and chose to stay with us.
You have no idea at all about his motivations but are claiming you do. Shoddy.

Ozil had options two years ago and he chose to stay with us. Aubameyang had multiple choices this year but chose to stay with us.

You're the one lauding one for their loyalty after they were offered 350k p/w and criticizing the other for being a mercenary for negotiating the best deal possible for themselves. I've no issue with Ozil, I'm glad he stayed at the time and it didn't work out. I wish he'd leave for the good of the club but respect the fact he's a right to the money he was offered and we can't force him to leave.

Oh, and I couldn't give a shit what he did at Dortmund. He's been nothing but a positive influence with is, is loved by the entire squad, and has had no disciplinary issues in his 2.5 years here. You're just looking for any old stick to beat him with because you're on some bitter agenda.

[theHotHead]

As a fan, I'm not criticising Ozil's trophy count and achievements. As you point out, it's a rare achievement.

I don't want to make this too deep or complex, I simply look at the players Ozil often gets compared to when speaking of World Class players.

From what we're aware of, he's still fit with no long term injury issues and relatively young. He's not even 32 yet and has missed a lot of football in recent years and looks no closer to getting regular first team football. I look at Henry in comparison. He was a World Cup winner, a European Cup winner, and Ligue 1 winner at a young age. Although he won Prem titles and FA Cups with Arsenal he was still pushing himself for more and didn't tap out because he already had a glowing CV. He pushed for that CL title with Barca, learned a new system and pushed his body further despite the age and when his career at Barca was over, despite not being at the highest level, he still kept playing and moved to New York.

It was the same for Cesc. Another player that had a glowing CV at a pretty young age. At the very least, the desire to play football was still there even if not for a top club.

With Ozil, I simply can't understand the wasted years not playing football. Essentially, it sounds like your saying because he's won the highest accolade the desire to prove something has gone. Maybe that's the thing coaches see or believe about him, hence why he's not getting picked?

But you're assuming that he is wasting his career, or doesn't want to play. If he genuinely wants to stay and believes he can fight for his place, what is wrong with that?

The basis of an argument cannot be sheer assumptions. Ozil was playing under Mikel until the lockdown. Since then, the scenario has changed. If he wants to stay to fight for his place, he very well has the right to do so. It also shows his resolve and commitment.

It's not black and white.

Ozil's achievements in football is a response to fans who believe his achievements aren't significant. A World Cup winner and a generational talent obviously won't sit back and relax thinking he's won it all. That's another fallacy people are using to put words in my mouth.

Maybe Ozil is one of those people who believes he can still serve Arsenal for the remainder of his contract? It's not a daft idea at all.

In principle, I believe Ozil should leave. But I'm talking as a fan. The circumstances at Arsenal since Wenger's departure is not something I'm aware of. Hence, I can't comment on that.

He's resolved to fight for his place. He's not refusing to play. It's a totally different situation.

Henry and Fabregas left us when they were more in demand, and they went to a more competitive, successful club. I'm sure they both enjoyed pay rises as well.

Ozil's "loyalty" extends to no decent club wanting to go near him because he's paid a fortune despite him being worth a fraction of that. It's his right to stay and earn that money, but this idea that he's here because he's so loyal to Arsenal is a joke.

Also, jayram, I find it funny that you criticized Aubameyang for his greed in wanting as big a salary as possible, but when Ozil did the exact same thing it's more a case of his loyalty to the club? How does that work?

I don't expect strawman arguments from you. Cesc was 24 when he left. He wanted to join the most elite side in modern football history. If Cesc had just wanted to leave, we'd have gotten £50m for him. Real Madrid wanted him and Mancini publicly stated that he'd be his dream signing. While Cesc joined Barca in his peak, Ozil joined Arsenal in his peak. Like Cesc, PSG and United wanted him, but he wanted to play for Wenger.

As for Henry, he was 29 when he left and he didn't want to stay at Arsenal for the rebuild. More importantly, Henry's attitude of being bigger than the club hurt us. If we had money back then, we'd have won the League title the subsequent season.

Different circumstances.

Ozil joined us in his prime unlike Henry and Cesc.

Very different circumstances.

At this stage, it's wise for some to simply accept that they don't appreciate Ozil. For others, that they simply want Ozil to go instead of finding round-about ways to paint Ozil as a failure here, or to question the work ethic and commitment of one of the greatest attacking midfielders of all time. It would simply help in killing off these pretentious discussions.

Absolutely spot on with this entire post Angelito

[theHotHead]

Wonder how many games of fortnight Ozil has played during this thread

What does that matter? What relevance does that have ? He can do whatever the hell he likes in his personal life. How many times has he run around London Colney during this thread?!