The Wizard of Özil

[Dejan]

We won’t make top four. I’m betting Leicester under Rogers takes fourth behind City, Liverpool and Spurs.

Lol ok then

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk

[Emeryates]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Top-4 doesn't matter this season because ManU and Chelsea are fighting for top-8, let alone top-4.

It's the same excuses as under Wenger. We finished in the top-4 and won trophies, but we were simply papering over cracks.

So, there won't be any scenes when we finish in the top-4 because it's a bare minimum this season. The top-4 positions fill itself.

It's already obvious Emery isn't the man to take us forward if we want to transform into proper challengers. We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger's left. Let that not be swept under the rug as every criticism of Emery is and has been.

Wenger had 22 years to get us to where we were. You're complaining that Emery hasn't revolutionised the club in a season.

We missed out on silverware and top 4 by an arse hair fielding a shambles of a squad. We've now improved and 4 games in you've gone full hate mode because you're panicking that we haven't matched klopps liverpool.

Your agenda against emery because ozil has declined is making you take some really extreme positions on how good or bad Emery is and it shows when you're complaining about how defensive emerys style is while lauding Mourinho, or doing 22 year Wenger comparisons versus 1 season emery or getting upset because people are pointing out the obvious about ozil.

Now top 4 isn't good enough for you because emery should have us playing like a title winning team after a season?

Baffling.

There's no point arguing with you on this. Because you make your own propositions, claim its mine, and end up arguing against that fictional standpoint.

What's baffling is you arguing against your false perception of my opinion.

Sprinkle in terms like agenda, hate, Ozil - and you have classic Zedie post.

We've both been on here long enough to have read each others opinions on a lot of things, you didn't mention ozil in this convo but it's quite clear where your dislike of emery began from my perspective.

I really don't need to cross reference every opinion with you now do i?

Most of your complaints are based on God knows what:

"Emery has never finished in the top 4"

You ignore his time at PSG.

"Emery has no fixed style"

You ignore your complaints at wenger for sticking rigidly to one fixed style. You ignore that hes had one season to get to know the club and now a 2nd window to try and address the massive holes in our squad.

"Hes too defensive"

You ignore your own rants about wenger on countless occasions in big games getting destroyed when he tried to go toe to toe with the likes of city and liverpool etc.

You've even started counting CMs into your defensive player counts lol

"Klopp is an elite manager"

You ignore him having a worse start with liverpool and taking 6 years and untold investment to finally lift silverware

"We should have mourinho, arteta etc."

Mourinho is the most defensive manager to have managed any top team in England. Good enough for mou / emery cant be conservative against the likes of liverpool without you going off.

You also ignore half the names on your varied lists turning us down.

Or the likes of arteta having not managed an under 10s before.

4 games in and you're complaining about us not showing title winning form a year into the rebuild post Wenger.

Its relentless and you.

[Angelito]

@ Zedie

This is the last time I'll talk about this issue with you. I honestly don't feel it's necessary, but nonetheless, I will address a few points, which is something I feel you're not looking deeply into.

I don't dislike Emery. I simply don't rate him. Nobody, bar Cripps, wanted Emery at Arsenal when we were looking for Wenger's successor. That should tell you enough about Emery. There are folks like Sims, Zenith, Brandon, Los, and myself, who watch other leagues as much as we watch the Premier League. None of us had Unai Emery as our top-3 preferred candidate.

When he was hired, I was behind him. I had hoped that he'd learn from his stint at PSG. He was always a pragmatist, so that was a positive sign, but what he'd learned after managing one of the richest clubs in the world with huge aspirations - that was what intrigued me more. It was his first big job, so I brushed his tumultuous time at PSG aside. Yet, with a number of baffling decisions at Arsenal and dropping Ozil, whilst he had no other plan and we continuously dropped points, it made no sense. That's not to say it was about Ozil as you've falsesly accused me of. It's more about his tactics and the manner in which he approaches the game. We bottled top-4. It was a colossal collapse at the end of the season that culminated into a humiliating defeat in a major final. If Wenger were here, he'd have been chastized for that. So the double standard shouldn't exist.

Regardless, when you drop a star player, you're supposed to deliver. Emery didn't. It took us Ozil's return and later Ramsey's return to get back into winning ways last season. It's one thing dropping someone after having a plan. It's another dropping a player because you are unable to play free-flowing football. Emery hasn't shown anywhere in his time as a manager that he can play fluid, attacking football. This cannot be debated.

His PSG accomplishment means zilch because in his two seasons, he managed to lose a one-horse race. He was overruled by PSG executives in his second season and ended up falling out with key players and the board, which resulted in PSG not extending his contract. Laurant Blanc won the Ligue 1 three times in a row - and won a cumulative 11 trophies during his 3 seasons at PSG. Do you want him at Arsenal? Nobody does. He's a decent manager but he's not a top level manager (Blanc).

It's not like Emery won Ligue 1 with Monaco for us to cherish that accomplishment. In fact, he's the only manager to have lost the league title with PSG since they started winning the league this decade. Praising Emery for winning Ligue 1 is like praising a Bayern manager for winning BuLi. It's not like a certain Dortment manager won it defying all odds against Bayern.

If you're honest enough, you can see the logic here. No PSG manager has a legacy so far. Because Ligue 1 has the value of a League Cup and PSG's entire season hinges on the UCL. Emery didn't win it with Monaco.

As far as Emery's style goes, he is rigid and he has been in his entire career. I'm sorry to let you know that he is a journeyman. He's not exceptional, but really good within his zone. When we wanted Wenger out, it was for the reason that he wasn't good enough. I know shitting on Wenger has become a rather unfortunate trend here, but Wenger won the FA Cup and finished with 75 points in 16/17. His worst season ever resulted in a European SF and a League Cup final - as well as, technically, winning a trophy. A good manager is expected to better Wenger's worst season ever. We want someone exceptional at Arsenal, not someone who's "simply, arguably, perhaps better than Wenger's worst."

No manager gets enough time these days. The stakes are too high. Emery is an exception. Last season, we didn't have any identity in our style, nor was it clear what we were aiming for. This season, so far, we're won 2, lost 1, and drew 1. Basic stuff. It's not always about money or finding excuses. That's what created this whole mess because we always had excuses for Wenger's failures at Arsenal. If you have to bring up excuses for a manager who has talents like Lacazette, Aubameyang, Ozil, Sokratis, Torreira, Monreal, Guendouzi, etc., just think - the problem might lie elsewhere.

Emery is indeed too defensive. The problem here is that Wenger's worst has become a blessing in disguise for Emery. Ask yourself: will you ever be able to compare Emery to Wenger's best? Emery has built a career out of being a pragmatist. His away record has been a suspect, always. Whenever Sevilla made it into the latter stages of the EL, his league form suffered. It's all obvious for those who have followed La Liga. Emery isn't a philosophical manager like Pep, Wenger, Klopp, Simeone, Conte, etc. He is a reactionary manager who reacts to his opponent's style. That is incredible if it's playing Barcelona at the Camp Nou, but in the league, it won't help us. That's not how a top club behaves. There is parking the bus as Jose does it. And, there's being too passive as Emery does it. Look through his career. It's a plague that has always haunted him and it won't change at Arsenal.

On DMs and CMs, Torreira is a DM. Xhaka is a DM. Call him DLP, but he made a name for himself as a DM. He's not a CM. Guendouzi was a DM. He didn't play as one against Spurs. He was more B2B. Yet, Emery has played with 8 defensive-minded players or 7, if you'd exclude Guendouzi against Spurs... He's done this more times than setting up in an attack-minded manner. That will be his undoing. Mark that. He's too "coward" to be managing a big side. Jose parked the bus and nobody gave a shit because he got the job done. With Emery, it's simply cowering in fear. As you watch Emery, you will understand where I'm coming from.

Klopp is an elite manager. You are being absolutely biased beyond any doubt if you argue this point. He won the BuLi with Dortmund over Bayern f'kin Munich. It's like a manager winning Ligue 1 with Monaco over PSG. He's reached 4 European Finals. He's reached 2 UCL Finals. The season you count as his first isn't even his first full season. He joined in October. In his first full season, he finished in the top-4. Klopp has a philosophy: the gegenpress. What philosophy does Emery have? You're simply being a fanboy here. Just because Emery is an Arsenal manager, it doesn't mean you have to blindly support him.

As for Mou/Arteta, you're becoming petty now. Are you seriously comparing Mourinho to Emery? Are you comparing one of the greatest managers of all time, a serial winner, a manager who considers Europa League beneath him, to a manager whose claim to glory is the Europa League? Are you? When we were linked with Arteta, I didn't want him. So, I'm not sure why you're creating another false narrative.

You have no proof that so and so turned us down, so please don't bring that up.

4 games in, I have criticized Emery with valid justifications. I haven't acted pettily and attacked his supporters. I don't ignore facts. And, I won't blindly support Emery just because he's Arsenal manager. We made that mistake with Wenger. Not repeating that with Emery who has zilch legacy at Arsenal.

As I read through your post, it started with a thesis and spiraled to whataboutism to misappropriating arguments - to creating a false narrative just to support your own stance. Please don't do that.

There's no point arguing if you can't look at facts, scrutinize them, and come up with a compelling argument.

That's all.

[LMAO]

@ Zedie

This is the last time I'll talk about this issue with you. I honestly don't feel it's necessary, but nonetheless, I will address a few points, which is something I feel you're not looking deeply into.

I don't dislike Emery. I simply don't rate him. Nobody, bar Cripps, wanted Emery at Arsenal when we were looking for Wenger's successor. That should tell you enough about Emery. There are folks like Sims, Zenith, Brandon, Los, and myself, who watch other leagues as much as we watch the Premier League. None of us had Unai Emery as our top-3 preferred candidate.

When he was hired, I was behind him. I had hoped that he'd learn from his stint at PSG. He was always a pragmatist, so that was a positive sign, but what he'd learned after managing one of the richest clubs in the world with huge aspirations - that was what intrigued me more. It was his first big job, so I brushed his tumultuous time at PSG aside. Yet, with a number of baffling decisions at Arsenal and dropping Ozil, whilst he had no other plan and we continuously dropped points, it made no sense. That's not to say it was about Ozil as you've falsesly accused me of. It's more about his tactics and the manner in which he approaches the game. We bottled top-4. It was a colossal collapse at the end of the season that culminated into a humiliating defeat in a major final. If Wenger were here, he'd have been chastized for that. So the double standard shouldn't exist.

Regardless, when you drop a star player, you're supposed to deliver. Emery didn't. It took us Ozil's return and later Ramsey's return to get back into winning ways last season. It's one thing dropping someone after having a plan. It's another dropping a player because you are unable to play free-flowing football. Emery hasn't shown anywhere in his time as a manager that he can play fluid, attacking football. This cannot be debated.

His PSG accomplishment means zilch because in his two seasons, he managed to lose a one-horse race. He was overruled by PSG executives in his second season and ended up falling out with key players and the board, which resulted in PSG not extending his contract. Laurant Blanc won the Ligue 1 three times in a row - and won a cumulative 11 trophies during his 3 seasons at PSG. Do you want him at Arsenal? Nobody does. He's a decent manager but he's not a top level manager (Blanc).

It's not like Emery won Ligue 1 with Monaco for us to cherish that accomplishment. In fact, he's the only manager to have lost the league title with PSG since they started winning the league this decade. Praising Emery for winning Ligue 1 is like praising a Bayern manager for winning BuLi. It's not like a certain Dortment manager won it defying all odds against Bayern.

If you're honest enough, you can see the logic here. No PSG manager has a legacy so far. Because Ligue 1 has the value of a League Cup and PSG's entire season hinges on the UCL. Emery didn't win it with Monaco.

As far as Emery's style goes, he is rigid and he has been in his entire career. I'm sorry to let you know that he is a journeyman. He's not exceptional, but really good within his zone. When we wanted Wenger out, it was for the reason that he wasn't good enough. I know shitting on Wenger has become a rather unfortunate trend here, but Wenger won the FA Cup and finished with 75 points in 16/17. His worst season ever resulted in a European SF and a League Cup final - as well as, technically, winning a trophy. A good manager is expected to better Wenger's worst season ever. We want someone exceptional at Arsenal, not someone who's "simply, arguably, perhaps better than Wenger's worst."

No manager gets enough time these days. The stakes are too high. Emery is an exception. Last season, we didn't have any identity in our style, nor was it clear what we were aiming for. This season, so far, we're won 2, lost 1, and drew 1. Basic stuff. It's not always about money or finding excuses. That's what created this whole mess because we always had excuses for Wenger's failures at Arsenal. If you have to bring up excuses for a manager who has talents like Lacazette, Aubameyang, Ozil, Sokratis, Torreira, Monreal, Guendouzi, etc., just think - the problem might lie elsewhere.

Emery is indeed too defensive. The problem here is that Wenger's worst has become a blessing in disguise for Emery. Ask yourself: will you ever be able to compare Emery to Wenger's best? Emery has built a career out of being a pragmatist. His away record has been a suspect, always. Whenever Sevilla made it into the latter stages of the EL, his league form suffered. It's all obvious for those who have followed La Liga. Emery isn't a philosophical manager like Pep, Wenger, Klopp, Simeone, Conte, etc. He is a reactionary manager who reacts to his opponent's style. That is incredible if it's playing Barcelona at the Camp Nou, but in the league, it won't help us. That's not how a top club behaves. There is parking the bus as Jose does it. And, there's being too passive as Emery does it. Look through his career. It's a plague that has always haunted him and it won't change at Arsenal.

On DMs and CMs, Torreira is a DM. Xhaka is a DM. Call him DLP, but he made a name for himself as a DM. He's not a CM. Guendouzi was a DM. He didn't play as one against Spurs. He was more B2B. Yet, Emery has played with 8 defensive-minded players or 7, if you'd exclude Guendouzi against Spurs... He's done this more times than setting up in an attack-minded manner. That will be his undoing. Mark that. He's too "coward" to be managing a big side. Jose parked the bus and nobody gave a shit because he got the job done. With Emery, it's simply cowering in fear. As you watch Emery, you will understand where I'm coming from.

Klopp is an elite manager. You are being absolutely biased beyond any doubt if you argue this point. He won the BuLi with Dortmund over Bayern f'kin Munich. It's like a manager winning Ligue 1 with Monaco over PSG. He's reached 4 European Finals. He's reached 2 UCL Finals. The season you count as his first isn't even his first full season. He joined in October. In his first full season, he finished in the top-4. Klopp has a philosophy: the gegenpress. What philosophy does Emery have? You're simply being a fanboy here. Just because Emery is an Arsenal manager, it doesn't mean you have to blindly support him.

As for Mou/Arteta, you're becoming petty now. Are you seriously comparing Mourinho to Emery? Are you comparing one of the greatest managers of all time, a serial winner, a manager who considers Europa League beneath him, to a manager whose claim to glory is the Europa League? Are you? When we were linked with Arteta, I didn't want him. So, I'm not sure why you're creating another false narrative.

You have no proof that so and so turned us down, so please don't bring that up.

4 games in, I have criticized Emery with valid justifications. I haven't acted pettily and attacked his supporters. I don't ignore facts. And, I won't blindly support Emery just because he's Arsenal manager. We made that mistake with Wenger. Not repeating that with Emery who has zilch legacy at Arsenal.

As I read through your post, it started with a thesis and spiraled to whataboutism to misappropriating arguments - to creating a false narrative just to support your own stance. Please don't do that.

There's no point arguing if you can't look at facts, scrutinize them, and come up with a compelling argument.

That's all.

[Fenice]

Damn, what a post.

[Power n Glory]

@ Zedie

This is the last time I'll talk about this issue with you. I honestly don't feel it's necessary, but nonetheless, I will address a few points, which is something I feel you're not looking deeply into.

I don't dislike Emery. I simply don't rate him. Nobody, bar Cripps, wanted Emery at Arsenal when we were looking for Wenger's successor. That should tell you enough about Emery. There are folks like Sims, Zenith, Brandon, Los, and myself, who watch other leagues as much as we watch the Premier League. None of us had Unai Emery as our top-3 preferred candidate.

When he was hired, I was behind him. I had hoped that he'd learn from his stint at PSG. He was always a pragmatist, so that was a positive sign, but what he'd learned after managing one of the richest clubs in the world with huge aspirations - that was what intrigued me more. It was his first big job, so I brushed his tumultuous time at PSG aside. Yet, with a number of baffling decisions at Arsenal and dropping Ozil, whilst he had no other plan and we continuously dropped points, it made no sense. That's not to say it was about Ozil as you've falsesly accused me of. It's more about his tactics and the manner in which he approaches the game. We bottled top-4. It was a colossal collapse at the end of the season that culminated into a humiliating defeat in a major final. If Wenger were here, he'd have been chastized for that. So the double standard shouldn't exist.

Regardless, when you drop a star player, you're supposed to deliver. Emery didn't. It took us Ozil's return and later Ramsey's return to get back into winning ways last season. It's one thing dropping someone after having a plan. It's another dropping a player because you are unable to play free-flowing football. Emery hasn't shown anywhere in his time as a manager that he can play fluid, attacking football. This cannot be debated.

His PSG accomplishment means zilch because in his two seasons, he managed to lose a one-horse race. He was overruled by PSG executives in his second season and ended up falling out with key players and the board, which resulted in PSG not extending his contract. Laurant Blanc won the Ligue 1 three times in a row - and won a cumulative 11 trophies during his 3 seasons at PSG. Do you want him at Arsenal? Nobody does. He's a decent manager but he's not a top level manager (Blanc).

It's not like Emery won Ligue 1 with Monaco for us to cherish that accomplishment. In fact, he's the only manager to have lost the league title with PSG since they started winning the league this decade. Praising Emery for winning Ligue 1 is like praising a Bayern manager for winning BuLi. It's not like a certain Dortment manager won it defying all odds against Bayern.

If you're honest enough, you can see the logic here. No PSG manager has a legacy so far. Because Ligue 1 has the value of a League Cup and PSG's entire season hinges on the UCL. Emery didn't win it with Monaco.

As far as Emery's style goes, he is rigid and he has been in his entire career. I'm sorry to let you know that he is a journeyman. He's not exceptional, but really good within his zone. When we wanted Wenger out, it was for the reason that he wasn't good enough. I know shitting on Wenger has become a rather unfortunate trend here, but Wenger won the FA Cup and finished with 75 points in 16/17. His worst season ever resulted in a European SF and a League Cup final - as well as, technically, winning a trophy. A good manager is expected to better Wenger's worst season ever. We want someone exceptional at Arsenal, not someone who's "simply, arguably, perhaps better than Wenger's worst."

No manager gets enough time these days. The stakes are too high. Emery is an exception. Last season, we didn't have any identity in our style, nor was it clear what we were aiming for. This season, so far, we're won 2, lost 1, and drew 1. Basic stuff. It's not always about money or finding excuses. That's what created this whole mess because we always had excuses for Wenger's failures at Arsenal. If you have to bring up excuses for a manager who has talents like Lacazette, Aubameyang, Ozil, Sokratis, Torreira, Monreal, Guendouzi, etc., just think - the problem might lie elsewhere.

Emery is indeed too defensive. The problem here is that Wenger's worst has become a blessing in disguise for Emery. Ask yourself: will you ever be able to compare Emery to Wenger's best? Emery has built a career out of being a pragmatist. His away record has been a suspect, always. Whenever Sevilla made it into the latter stages of the EL, his league form suffered. It's all obvious for those who have followed La Liga. Emery isn't a philosophical manager like Pep, Wenger, Klopp, Simeone, Conte, etc. He is a reactionary manager who reacts to his opponent's style. That is incredible if it's playing Barcelona at the Camp Nou, but in the league, it won't help us. That's not how a top club behaves. There is parking the bus as Jose does it. And, there's being too passive as Emery does it. Look through his career. It's a plague that has always haunted him and it won't change at Arsenal.

On DMs and CMs, Torreira is a DM. Xhaka is a DM. Call him DLP, but he made a name for himself as a DM. He's not a CM. Guendouzi was a DM. He didn't play as one against Spurs. He was more B2B. Yet, Emery has played with 8 defensive-minded players or 7, if you'd exclude Guendouzi against Spurs... He's done this more times than setting up in an attack-minded manner. That will be his undoing. Mark that. He's too "coward" to be managing a big side. Jose parked the bus and nobody gave a shit because he got the job done. With Emery, it's simply cowering in fear. As you watch Emery, you will understand where I'm coming from.

Klopp is an elite manager. You are being absolutely biased beyond any doubt if you argue this point. He won the BuLi with Dortmund over Bayern f'kin Munich. It's like a manager winning Ligue 1 with Monaco over PSG. He's reached 4 European Finals. He's reached 2 UCL Finals. The season you count as his first isn't even his first full season. He joined in October. In his first full season, he finished in the top-4. Klopp has a philosophy: the gegenpress. What philosophy does Emery have? You're simply being a fanboy here. Just because Emery is an Arsenal manager, it doesn't mean you have to blindly support him.

As for Mou/Arteta, you're becoming petty now. Are you seriously comparing Mourinho to Emery? Are you comparing one of the greatest managers of all time, a serial winner, a manager who considers Europa League beneath him, to a manager whose claim to glory is the Europa League? Are you? When we were linked with Arteta, I didn't want him. So, I'm not sure why you're creating another false narrative.

You have no proof that so and so turned us down, so please don't bring that up.

4 games in, I have criticized Emery with valid justifications. I haven't acted pettily and attacked his supporters. I don't ignore facts. And, I won't blindly support Emery just because he's Arsenal manager. We made that mistake with Wenger. Not repeating that with Emery who has zilch legacy at Arsenal.

As I read through your post, it started with a thesis and spiraled to whataboutism to misappropriating arguments - to creating a false narrative just to support your own stance. Please don't do that.

There's no point arguing if you can't look at facts, scrutinize them, and come up with a compelling argument.

That's all.

'Drop the mic' type of post.

[#ST]

@ Zedie

This is the last time I'll talk about this issue with you. I honestly don't feel it's necessary, but nonetheless, I will address a few points, which is something I feel you're not looking deeply into.

I don't dislike Emery. I simply don't rate him. Nobody, bar Cripps, wanted Emery at Arsenal when we were looking for Wenger's successor. That should tell you enough about Emery. There are folks like Sims, Zenith, Brandon, Los, and myself, who watch other leagues as much as we watch the Premier League. None of us had Unai Emery as our top-3 preferred candidate.

When he was hired, I was behind him. I had hoped that he'd learn from his stint at PSG. He was always a pragmatist, so that was a positive sign, but what he'd learned after managing one of the richest clubs in the world with huge aspirations - that was what intrigued me more. It was his first big job, so I brushed his tumultuous time at PSG aside. Yet, with a number of baffling decisions at Arsenal and dropping Ozil, whilst he had no other plan and we continuously dropped points, it made no sense. That's not to say it was about Ozil as you've falsesly accused me of. It's more about his tactics and the manner in which he approaches the game. We bottled top-4. It was a colossal collapse at the end of the season that culminated into a humiliating defeat in a major final. If Wenger were here, he'd have been chastized for that. So the double standard shouldn't exist.

Regardless, when you drop a star player, you're supposed to deliver. Emery didn't. It took us Ozil's return and later Ramsey's return to get back into winning ways last season. It's one thing dropping someone after having a plan. It's another dropping a player because you are unable to play free-flowing football. Emery hasn't shown anywhere in his time as a manager that he can play fluid, attacking football. This cannot be debated.

His PSG accomplishment means zilch because in his two seasons, he managed to lose a one-horse race. He was overruled by PSG executives in his second season and ended up falling out with key players and the board, which resulted in PSG not extending his contract. Laurant Blanc won the Ligue 1 three times in a row - and won a cumulative 11 trophies during his 3 seasons at PSG. Do you want him at Arsenal? Nobody does. He's a decent manager but he's not a top level manager (Blanc).

It's not like Emery won Ligue 1 with Monaco for us to cherish that accomplishment. In fact, he's the only manager to have lost the league title with PSG since they started winning the league this decade. Praising Emery for winning Ligue 1 is like praising a Bayern manager for winning BuLi. It's not like a certain Dortment manager won it defying all odds against Bayern.

If you're honest enough, you can see the logic here. No PSG manager has a legacy so far. Because Ligue 1 has the value of a League Cup and PSG's entire season hinges on the UCL. Emery didn't win it with Monaco.

As far as Emery's style goes, he is rigid and he has been in his entire career. I'm sorry to let you know that he is a journeyman. He's not exceptional, but really good within his zone. When we wanted Wenger out, it was for the reason that he wasn't good enough. I know shitting on Wenger has become a rather unfortunate trend here, but Wenger won the FA Cup and finished with 75 points in 16/17. His worst season ever resulted in a European SF and a League Cup final - as well as, technically, winning a trophy. A good manager is expected to better Wenger's worst season ever. We want someone exceptional at Arsenal, not someone who's "simply, arguably, perhaps better than Wenger's worst."

No manager gets enough time these days. The stakes are too high. Emery is an exception. Last season, we didn't have any identity in our style, nor was it clear what we were aiming for. This season, so far, we're won 2, lost 1, and drew 1. Basic stuff. It's not always about money or finding excuses. That's what created this whole mess because we always had excuses for Wenger's failures at Arsenal. If you have to bring up excuses for a manager who has talents like Lacazette, Aubameyang, Ozil, Sokratis, Torreira, Monreal, Guendouzi, etc., just think - the problem might lie elsewhere.

Emery is indeed too defensive. The problem here is that Wenger's worst has become a blessing in disguise for Emery. Ask yourself: will you ever be able to compare Emery to Wenger's best? Emery has built a career out of being a pragmatist. His away record has been a suspect, always. Whenever Sevilla made it into the latter stages of the EL, his league form suffered. It's all obvious for those who have followed La Liga. Emery isn't a philosophical manager like Pep, Wenger, Klopp, Simeone, Conte, etc. He is a reactionary manager who reacts to his opponent's style. That is incredible if it's playing Barcelona at the Camp Nou, but in the league, it won't help us. That's not how a top club behaves. There is parking the bus as Jose does it. And, there's being too passive as Emery does it. Look through his career. It's a plague that has always haunted him and it won't change at Arsenal.

On DMs and CMs, Torreira is a DM. Xhaka is a DM. Call him DLP, but he made a name for himself as a DM. He's not a CM. Guendouzi was a DM. He didn't play as one against Spurs. He was more B2B. Yet, Emery has played with 8 defensive-minded players or 7, if you'd exclude Guendouzi against Spurs... He's done this more times than setting up in an attack-minded manner. That will be his undoing. Mark that. He's too "coward" to be managing a big side. Jose parked the bus and nobody gave a shit because he got the job done. With Emery, it's simply cowering in fear. As you watch Emery, you will understand where I'm coming from.

Klopp is an elite manager. You are being absolutely biased beyond any doubt if you argue this point. He won the BuLi with Dortmund over Bayern f'kin Munich. It's like a manager winning Ligue 1 with Monaco over PSG. He's reached 4 European Finals. He's reached 2 UCL Finals. The season you count as his first isn't even his first full season. He joined in October. In his first full season, he finished in the top-4. Klopp has a philosophy: the gegenpress. What philosophy does Emery have? You're simply being a fanboy here. Just because Emery is an Arsenal manager, it doesn't mean you have to blindly support him.

As for Mou/Arteta, you're becoming petty now. Are you seriously comparing Mourinho to Emery? Are you comparing one of the greatest managers of all time, a serial winner, a manager who considers Europa League beneath him, to a manager whose claim to glory is the Europa League? Are you? When we were linked with Arteta, I didn't want him. So, I'm not sure why you're creating another false narrative.

You have no proof that so and so turned us down, so please don't bring that up.

4 games in, I have criticized Emery with valid justifications. I haven't acted pettily and attacked his supporters. I don't ignore facts. And, I won't blindly support Emery just because he's Arsenal manager. We made that mistake with Wenger. Not repeating that with Emery who has zilch legacy at Arsenal.

As I read through your post, it started with a thesis and spiraled to whataboutism to misappropriating arguments - to creating a false narrative just to support your own stance. Please don't do that.

There's no point arguing if you can't look at facts, scrutinize them, and come up with a compelling argument.

That's all.

[themessiah]

[Va-Va-Voom]

That post is damning enough to get Emery sacked tomorrow tbh.

[Losmeister]

well said.

that said, we're stuck with him for now... just hoping this attack starts firing and leno stops fluffing softarse rebounds

[Mike Dean]

@ Zedie

This is the last time I'll talk about this issue with you. I honestly don't feel it's necessary, but nonetheless, I will address a few points, which is something I feel you're not looking deeply into.

I don't dislike Emery. I simply don't rate him. Nobody, bar Cripps, wanted Emery at Arsenal when we were looking for Wenger's successor. That should tell you enough about Emery. There are folks like Sims, Zenith, Brandon, Los, and myself, who watch other leagues as much as we watch the Premier League. None of us had Unai Emery as our top-3 preferred candidate.

When he was hired, I was behind him. I had hoped that he'd learn from his stint at PSG. He was always a pragmatist, so that was a positive sign, but what he'd learned after managing one of the richest clubs in the world with huge aspirations - that was what intrigued me more. It was his first big job, so I brushed his tumultuous time at PSG aside. Yet, with a number of baffling decisions at Arsenal and dropping Ozil, whilst he had no other plan and we continuously dropped points, it made no sense. That's not to say it was about Ozil as you've falsesly accused me of. It's more about his tactics and the manner in which he approaches the game. We bottled top-4. It was a colossal collapse at the end of the season that culminated into a humiliating defeat in a major final. If Wenger were here, he'd have been chastized for that. So the double standard shouldn't exist.

Regardless, when you drop a star player, you're supposed to deliver. Emery didn't. It took us Ozil's return and later Ramsey's return to get back into winning ways last season. It's one thing dropping someone after having a plan. It's another dropping a player because you are unable to play free-flowing football. Emery hasn't shown anywhere in his time as a manager that he can play fluid, attacking football. This cannot be debated.

His PSG accomplishment means zilch because in his two seasons, he managed to lose a one-horse race. He was overruled by PSG executives in his second season and ended up falling out with key players and the board, which resulted in PSG not extending his contract. Laurant Blanc won the Ligue 1 three times in a row - and won a cumulative 11 trophies during his 3 seasons at PSG. Do you want him at Arsenal? Nobody does. He's a decent manager but he's not a top level manager (Blanc).

It's not like Emery won Ligue 1 with Monaco for us to cherish that accomplishment. In fact, he's the only manager to have lost the league title with PSG since they started winning the league this decade. Praising Emery for winning Ligue 1 is like praising a Bayern manager for winning BuLi. It's not like a certain Dortment manager won it defying all odds against Bayern.

If you're honest enough, you can see the logic here. No PSG manager has a legacy so far. Because Ligue 1 has the value of a League Cup and PSG's entire season hinges on the UCL. Emery didn't win it with Monaco.

As far as Emery's style goes, he is rigid and he has been in his entire career. I'm sorry to let you know that he is a journeyman. He's not exceptional, but really good within his zone. When we wanted Wenger out, it was for the reason that he wasn't good enough. I know shitting on Wenger has become a rather unfortunate trend here, but Wenger won the FA Cup and finished with 75 points in 16/17. His worst season ever resulted in a European SF and a League Cup final - as well as, technically, winning a trophy. A good manager is expected to better Wenger's worst season ever. We want someone exceptional at Arsenal, not someone who's "simply, arguably, perhaps better than Wenger's worst."

No manager gets enough time these days. The stakes are too high. Emery is an exception. Last season, we didn't have any identity in our style, nor was it clear what we were aiming for. This season, so far, we're won 2, lost 1, and drew 1. Basic stuff. It's not always about money or finding excuses. That's what created this whole mess because we always had excuses for Wenger's failures at Arsenal. If you have to bring up excuses for a manager who has talents like Lacazette, Aubameyang, Ozil, Sokratis, Torreira, Monreal, Guendouzi, etc., just think - the problem might lie elsewhere.

Emery is indeed too defensive. The problem here is that Wenger's worst has become a blessing in disguise for Emery. Ask yourself: will you ever be able to compare Emery to Wenger's best? Emery has built a career out of being a pragmatist. His away record has been a suspect, always. Whenever Sevilla made it into the latter stages of the EL, his league form suffered. It's all obvious for those who have followed La Liga. Emery isn't a philosophical manager like Pep, Wenger, Klopp, Simeone, Conte, etc. He is a reactionary manager who reacts to his opponent's style. That is incredible if it's playing Barcelona at the Camp Nou, but in the league, it won't help us. That's not how a top club behaves. There is parking the bus as Jose does it. And, there's being too passive as Emery does it. Look through his career. It's a plague that has always haunted him and it won't change at Arsenal.

On DMs and CMs, Torreira is a DM. Xhaka is a DM. Call him DLP, but he made a name for himself as a DM. He's not a CM. Guendouzi was a DM. He didn't play as one against Spurs. He was more B2B. Yet, Emery has played with 8 defensive-minded players or 7, if you'd exclude Guendouzi against Spurs... He's done this more times than setting up in an attack-minded manner. That will be his undoing. Mark that. He's too "coward" to be managing a big side. Jose parked the bus and nobody gave a shit because he got the job done. With Emery, it's simply cowering in fear. As you watch Emery, you will understand where I'm coming from.

Klopp is an elite manager. You are being absolutely biased beyond any doubt if you argue this point. He won the BuLi with Dortmund over Bayern f'kin Munich. It's like a manager winning Ligue 1 with Monaco over PSG. He's reached 4 European Finals. He's reached 2 UCL Finals. The season you count as his first isn't even his first full season. He joined in October. In his first full season, he finished in the top-4. Klopp has a philosophy: the gegenpress. What philosophy does Emery have? You're simply being a fanboy here. Just because Emery is an Arsenal manager, it doesn't mean you have to blindly support him.

As for Mou/Arteta, you're becoming petty now. Are you seriously comparing Mourinho to Emery? Are you comparing one of the greatest managers of all time, a serial winner, a manager who considers Europa League beneath him, to a manager whose claim to glory is the Europa League? Are you? When we were linked with Arteta, I didn't want him. So, I'm not sure why you're creating another false narrative.

You have no proof that so and so turned us down, so please don't bring that up.

4 games in, I have criticized Emery with valid justifications. I haven't acted pettily and attacked his supporters. I don't ignore facts. And, I won't blindly support Emery just because he's Arsenal manager. We made that mistake with Wenger. Not repeating that with Emery who has zilch legacy at Arsenal.

As I read through your post, it started with a thesis and spiraled to whataboutism to misappropriating arguments - to creating a false narrative just to support your own stance. Please don't do that.

There's no point arguing if you can't look at facts, scrutinize them, and come up with a compelling argument.

That's all.

Excellent post.

[thebigbangtheo]

@ Zedie

This is the last time I'll talk about this issue with you. I honestly don't feel it's necessary, but nonetheless, I will address a few points, which is something I feel you're not looking deeply into.

I don't dislike Emery. I simply don't rate him. Nobody, bar Cripps, wanted Emery at Arsenal when we were looking for Wenger's successor. That should tell you enough about Emery. There are folks like Sims, Zenith, Brandon, Los, and myself, who watch other leagues as much as we watch the Premier League. None of us had Unai Emery as our top-3 preferred candidate.

When he was hired, I was behind him. I had hoped that he'd learn from his stint at PSG. He was always a pragmatist, so that was a positive sign, but what he'd learned after managing one of the richest clubs in the world with huge aspirations - that was what intrigued me more. It was his first big job, so I brushed his tumultuous time at PSG aside. Yet, with a number of baffling decisions at Arsenal and dropping Ozil, whilst he had no other plan and we continuously dropped points, it made no sense. That's not to say it was about Ozil as you've falsesly accused me of. It's more about his tactics and the manner in which he approaches the game. We bottled top-4. It was a colossal collapse at the end of the season that culminated into a humiliating defeat in a major final. If Wenger were here, he'd have been chastized for that. So the double standard shouldn't exist.

Regardless, when you drop a star player, you're supposed to deliver. Emery didn't. It took us Ozil's return and later Ramsey's return to get back into winning ways last season. It's one thing dropping someone after having a plan. It's another dropping a player because you are unable to play free-flowing football. Emery hasn't shown anywhere in his time as a manager that he can play fluid, attacking football. This cannot be debated.

His PSG accomplishment means zilch because in his two seasons, he managed to lose a one-horse race. He was overruled by PSG executives in his second season and ended up falling out with key players and the board, which resulted in PSG not extending his contract. Laurant Blanc won the Ligue 1 three times in a row - and won a cumulative 11 trophies during his 3 seasons at PSG. Do you want him at Arsenal? Nobody does. He's a decent manager but he's not a top level manager (Blanc).

It's not like Emery won Ligue 1 with Monaco for us to cherish that accomplishment. In fact, he's the only manager to have lost the league title with PSG since they started winning the league this decade. Praising Emery for winning Ligue 1 is like praising a Bayern manager for winning BuLi. It's not like a certain Dortment manager won it defying all odds against Bayern.

If you're honest enough, you can see the logic here. No PSG manager has a legacy so far. Because Ligue 1 has the value of a League Cup and PSG's entire season hinges on the UCL. Emery didn't win it with Monaco.

As far as Emery's style goes, he is rigid and he has been in his entire career. I'm sorry to let you know that he is a journeyman. He's not exceptional, but really good within his zone. When we wanted Wenger out, it was for the reason that he wasn't good enough. I know shitting on Wenger has become a rather unfortunate trend here, but Wenger won the FA Cup and finished with 75 points in 16/17. His worst season ever resulted in a European SF and a League Cup final - as well as, technically, winning a trophy. A good manager is expected to better Wenger's worst season ever. We want someone exceptional at Arsenal, not someone who's "simply, arguably, perhaps better than Wenger's worst."

No manager gets enough time these days. The stakes are too high. Emery is an exception. Last season, we didn't have any identity in our style, nor was it clear what we were aiming for. This season, so far, we're won 2, lost 1, and drew 1. Basic stuff. It's not always about money or finding excuses. That's what created this whole mess because we always had excuses for Wenger's failures at Arsenal. If you have to bring up excuses for a manager who has talents like Lacazette, Aubameyang, Ozil, Sokratis, Torreira, Monreal, Guendouzi, etc., just think - the problem might lie elsewhere.

Emery is indeed too defensive. The problem here is that Wenger's worst has become a blessing in disguise for Emery. Ask yourself: will you ever be able to compare Emery to Wenger's best? Emery has built a career out of being a pragmatist. His away record has been a suspect, always. Whenever Sevilla made it into the latter stages of the EL, his league form suffered. It's all obvious for those who have followed La Liga. Emery isn't a philosophical manager like Pep, Wenger, Klopp, Simeone, Conte, etc. He is a reactionary manager who reacts to his opponent's style. That is incredible if it's playing Barcelona at the Camp Nou, but in the league, it won't help us. That's not how a top club behaves. There is parking the bus as Jose does it. And, there's being too passive as Emery does it. Look through his career. It's a plague that has always haunted him and it won't change at Arsenal.

On DMs and CMs, Torreira is a DM. Xhaka is a DM. Call him DLP, but he made a name for himself as a DM. He's not a CM. Guendouzi was a DM. He didn't play as one against Spurs. He was more B2B. Yet, Emery has played with 8 defensive-minded players or 7, if you'd exclude Guendouzi against Spurs... He's done this more times than setting up in an attack-minded manner. That will be his undoing. Mark that. He's too "coward" to be managing a big side. Jose parked the bus and nobody gave a shit because he got the job done. With Emery, it's simply cowering in fear. As you watch Emery, you will understand where I'm coming from.

Klopp is an elite manager. You are being absolutely biased beyond any doubt if you argue this point. He won the BuLi with Dortmund over Bayern f'kin Munich. It's like a manager winning Ligue 1 with Monaco over PSG. He's reached 4 European Finals. He's reached 2 UCL Finals. The season you count as his first isn't even his first full season. He joined in October. In his first full season, he finished in the top-4. Klopp has a philosophy: the gegenpress. What philosophy does Emery have? You're simply being a fanboy here. Just because Emery is an Arsenal manager, it doesn't mean you have to blindly support him.

As for Mou/Arteta, you're becoming petty now. Are you seriously comparing Mourinho to Emery? Are you comparing one of the greatest managers of all time, a serial winner, a manager who considers Europa League beneath him, to a manager whose claim to glory is the Europa League? Are you? When we were linked with Arteta, I didn't want him. So, I'm not sure why you're creating another false narrative.

You have no proof that so and so turned us down, so please don't bring that up.

4 games in, I have criticized Emery with valid justifications. I haven't acted pettily and attacked his supporters. I don't ignore facts. And, I won't blindly support Emery just because he's Arsenal manager. We made that mistake with Wenger. Not repeating that with Emery who has zilch legacy at Arsenal.

As I read through your post, it started with a thesis and spiraled to whataboutism to misappropriating arguments - to creating a false narrative just to support your own stance. Please don't do that.

There's no point arguing if you can't look at facts, scrutinize them, and come up with a compelling argument.

That's all.

[Emeryates]

That is a ridiculous example of quite a few exaggerations, and a ridiculous understatement of context.

Emery started at a club that was relegated the season after he left. He got 5th in the last season he was there, in context.

He then got a ridiculously weak Almeria promoted playing free flowing attacking football, and then finished eight, playing beautiful football.

He then went to Valencia, where he managed David Villa and David Silva, and I think the football was good. Here's an example of some of it





This also is for those who say he didn't develop anyone, these two great players developed under him, so it's grossly unfair to say that he developed no one. Also, I really don't think you can say that he can't integrate someone like Ramsey or Ozil, if he could integrate David Silva and David Villa in the team. Silva, pre-Pep was hardly some pressing machine

He finished third in his last two seasons btw, which is just behind Barcelona and Real, and ahead of Atletico and co, so it's hardly like he's not gotten clubs into the top 4, which is his current goal.

He then bizarrely left for Russia, which was a ridiculous move, and then came back to Valencia, where he won the Europa Leagues. He had a patchy spell of away form there, and was not great, but still won three Europa Leagues.

He then went to PSG and won the league, and then came to Arsenal. I'd also say that he played some beautiful football with PSG

Don't believe me? Here's an example, I know they lost 6-1 after this, but this is beautiful football



You can see how he played with PSG in Ligue 1 through any number of compilations as well.

Even against Arsenal, he does not play like Wenger, but other than against the big teams, he's hardly some park the bus merchant. We play high pressing, quick passing football, with fullbacks high up and overlapping with the wingers. This is hardly some defensive football, just not the ridiculously expansive Wenger style football. Which is terrible in big games anyway.

As for attacking him using Wenger's previous record, Wenger was sacked because he was in-charge of transfers and left us short, and was past it as a manager. In his only season, using mostly Wenger's squad, he did better, and I would be surprised if he doesn't get top 4 this season.

Criticise Unai if he does fail to do so, but we're four games into his second season. I've seen what style he's attempting, and he doesn't attempt it against big teams, because he realises how ridiculous the idea is. Even Pep didn't go toe to toe with Liverpool. We've played Spurs thrice since Unai took charge, and we've been the better team in every one of those games. We've beat Chelsea, and lost narrowly to them in the league, and then had had that meltdown in the final.

People are bizarrely acting like Unai's shit. Our points total last season of 70 points would have got us into top 4 in nearly every season before 2015-16. Had we not had that meltdown, we'd still have got top 4, but Emery got carried away thinking he could win the Europa and rotated. That is his mistake, but to act like he's some midtable manager who got overpromoted is ridiculous. He's done well at nearly every club he's been at.

Judge him at the end of the season, if he doesn't get top 4 or EL, it's time to go, but I'm sure he will. His squad is currently not good enough for anything more than that. It's a process.

I'd like free flowing football too. I get wanting to get Ajax's manager, or Nagelsmann, but Bayern tried that with Kovac, and he's been an absolute failure for them.

[Ach]

Don't usually read long posts or anything from the mods but this got quite a reaction so started reading

Stopped after the hilarious no one but Cripps wanted emery when looking for wengers successor which is BS so I assumed the rest is as well so no point reading more.

I wanted ancelotti. The board and the threads about Wenger, the next manager etc are full of me calling for ancelotti.

Only time I wanted emery was when it was looking like it was him or Arteta and everyone wanted emery. I might have said before that point that I wouldn't mind emery considering the awesome job he done at PSG with overcoming the GOAT Monaco side, tempting Neymar to leave a major club, best win percentage of any PSG manager ever etc but he was never my first choice

Now that he's here I'm backing him. If he fails which he hasn't then we get someone else in.

[Dejan]

That is a ridiculous example of quite a few exaggerations, and a ridiculous understatement of context.

Emery started at a club that was relegated the season after he left. He got 5th in the last season he was there, in context.

He then got a ridiculously weak Almeria promoted playing free flowing attacking football, and then finished eight, playing beautiful football.

He then went to Valencia, where he managed David Villa and David Silva, and I think the football was good. Here's an example of some of it





This also is for those who say he didn't develop anyone, these two great players developed under him, so it's grossly unfair to say that he developed no one. Also, I really don't think you can say that he can't integrate someone like Ramsey or Ozil, if he could integrate David Silva and David Villa in the team. Silva, pre-Pep was hardly some pressing machine

He finished third in his last two seasons btw, which is just behind Barcelona and Real, and ahead of Atletico and co, so it's hardly like he's not gotten clubs into the top 4, which is his current goal.

He then bizarrely left for Russia, which was a ridiculous move, and then came back to Valencia, where he won the Europa Leagues. He had a patchy spell of away form there, and was not great, but still won three Europa Leagues.

He then went to PSG and won the league, and then came to Arsenal. I'd also say that he played some beautiful football with PSG

Don't believe me? Here's an example, I know they lost 6-1 after this, but this is beautiful football



You can see how he played with PSG in Ligue 1 through any number of compilations as well.

Even against Arsenal, he does not play like Wenger, but other than against the big teams, he's hardly some park the bus merchant. We play high pressing, quick passing football, with fullbacks high up and overlapping with the wingers. This is hardly some defensive football, just not the ridiculously expansive Wenger style football. Which is terrible in big games anyway.

As for attacking him using Wenger's previous record, Wenger was sacked because he was in-charge of transfers and left us short, and was past it as a manager. In his only season, using mostly Wenger's squad, he did better, and I would be surprised if he doesn't get top 4 this season.

Criticise Unai if he does fail to do so, but we're four games into his second season. I've seen what style he's attempting, and he doesn't attempt it against big teams, because he realises how ridiculous the idea is. Even Pep didn't go toe to toe with Liverpool. We've played Spurs thrice since Unai took charge, and we've been the better team in every one of those games. We've beat Chelsea, and lost narrowly to them in the league, and then had had that meltdown in the final.

People are bizarrely acting like Unai's shit. Our points total last season of 70 points would have got us into top 4 in nearly every season before 2015-16. Had we not had that meltdown, we'd still have got top 4, but Emery got carried away thinking he could win the Europa and rotated. That is his mistake, but to act like he's some midtable manager who got overpromoted is ridiculous. He's done well at nearly every club he's been at.

Judge him at the end of the season, if he doesn't get top 4 or EL, it's time to go, but I'm sure he will. His squad is currently not good enough for anything more than that. It's a process.

I'd like free flowing football too. I get wanting to get Ajax's manager, or Nagelsmann, but Bayern tried that with Kovac, and he's been an absolute failure for them.

Basically this

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