The Wizard of Özil

[Angelito]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Top-4 doesn't matter this season because ManU and Chelsea are fighting for top-8, let alone top-4.

It's the same excuses as under Wenger. We finished in the top-4 and won trophies, but we were simply papering over cracks.

So, there won't be any scenes when we finish in the top-4 because it's a bare minimum this season. The top-4 positions fill itself.

It's already obvious Emery isn't the man to take us forward if we want to transform into proper challengers. We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger's left. Let that not be swept under the rug as every criticism of Emery is and has been.

[Zedie]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Top-4 doesn't matter this season because ManU and Chelsea are fighting for top-8, let alone top-4.

It's the same excuses as under Wenger. We finished in the top-4 and won trophies, but we were simply papering over cracks.

So, there won't be any scenes when we finish in the top-4 because it's a bare minimum this season. The top-4 positions fill itself.

It's already obvious Emery isn't the man to take us forward if we want to transform into proper challengers. We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger's left. Let that not be swept under the rug as every criticism of Emery is and has been.

Wenger had 22 years to get us to where we were. You're complaining that Emery hasn't revolutionised the club in a season.

We missed out on silverware and top 4 by an arse hair fielding a shambles of a squad. We've now improved and 4 games in you've gone full hate mode because you're panicking that we haven't matched klopps liverpool.

Your agenda against emery because ozil has declined is making you take some really extreme positions on how good or bad Emery is and it shows when you're complaining about how defensive emerys style is while lauding Mourinho, or doing 22 year Wenger comparisons versus 1 season emery or getting upset because people are pointing out the obvious about ozil.

Now top 4 isn't good enough for you because emery should have us playing like a title winning team after a season?

Baffling.

[Zedie]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Making top four is the bar now? Where were you the last 14 years when top four was not good enough?

When we were comfortable in top 4, we were looking ahead to where we should be.

Since wenger dragged us out of top 4, it has become the target. That's how far wenger took us down.

It's good enough now because we weren't anywhere near it.

[Ach]

People would've wanted Klopp had we got him and finished 8th as he did with Liverpool.

He got time. Now look at them.

Emery needs time. Vast improvement from the horror of Wenger so he deserves the time

[Zedie]

People would've wanted Klopp had we got him and finished 8th as he did with Liverpool.

He got time. Now look at them.

Emery needs time. Vast improvement from the horror of Wenger so he deserves the time

Same people would have been talking shit about how damaged he was after nearly relegating Dortmund and how we have to act fast to get rid because hes lost it.

[Power n Glory]

Our philosophy under Wenger was holding the possession while playing fluid, offensive football. Now try to define what we are playing under Emery.

You're talking about when we actually played Wengerball.

It turned into aimless lateral passing without pace, penetration or incision and it was AIDS to watch.

I don't support Emery so...

We had an identity under Wenger but lacked character. Under Emery we've lost our identity but show more character.

It's tough to call, when the team felt like playing under Wenger, we'd see some incredible performances. Some of the games against Chelsea and City come to find or that one game where we beat Utd where Theo played up front.

But under Emery....the playeres have more fight and work rate. A much better attitude on the pitch compared to what Wenger allowed them to get away with but the football is pretty shocking.

What character is there in conceding two to Spurs at home in the first half?

Coming back after going two down shows character. Individual players like Lacazette, Guendouzi, Ceballos....they showed the sort of character and drive that I like to see in our players and that was missing from most of players in the late Wenger years. I don't think Wenger would been able to come back from 2 goals down. Also, in Wenger's last 3 seasons, we always drew against Spurs at home.

sure sure...

It's true. We don't have a system and it's individual performances that are getting us through and that's not sustainable. The team spirit and character comes from the changing environment, faces and optimism surrounding the club since we've had a change in manager and staff. But as said, it's not sustainable and Emery will have to fall back on a philosophy and system at some point because I don't think the players have any real faith in his coaching. Once a key player like Laca or Auba goes off the boil, we'll see the domino effect.

[swipe right]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Top-4 doesn't matter this season because ManU and Chelsea are fighting for top-8, let alone top-4.

It's the same excuses as under Wenger. We finished in the top-4 and won trophies, but we were simply papering over cracks.

So, there won't be any scenes when we finish in the top-4 because it's a bare minimum this season. The top-4 positions fill itself.

It's already obvious Emery isn't the man to take us forward if we want to transform into proper challengers. We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger's left. Let that not be swept under the rug as every criticism of Emery is and has been.

Wenger had 22 years to get us to where we were. You're complaining that Emery hasn't revolutionised the club in a season.

We missed out on silverware and top 4 by an arse hair fielding a shambles of a squad. We've now improved and 4 games in you've gone full hate mode because you're panicking that we haven't matched klopps liverpool.

Your agenda against emery because ozil has declined is making you take some really extreme positions on how good or bad Emery is and it shows when you're complaining about how defensive emerys style is while lauding Mourinho, or doing 22 year Wenger comparisons versus 1 season emery or getting upset because people are pointing out the obvious about ozil.

Now top 4 isn't good enough for you because emery should have us playing like a title winning team after a season?

Baffling.

Wenger did not have 22 years. He won the double his first full season. He won the double again two season later. He went en entire season unbeaten seven years after joining. He contributed to our stadium move nine season later. These are just facts.

[Highbury Hillbilly]

"We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger left"

A good chunk of that towards fixing the transfer disasters of the previous regime

£25m for Leno to replace Cech who was a past-it old man that Wenger saw fit to ship out Sneezy for

£17m for Sokratis who has been far better than Mustafi and Koscielny have been in years

About £40m for Torreira and Guendo, quality TBD but promising

Everybody else in that calculation arrived less than 3 months ago and have a max of 4 games under their belt. One of those is a CB that won't even be here until 2020 and the other is an LB who's injured and has yet to play for us at all.

[Angelito]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Top-4 doesn't matter this season because ManU and Chelsea are fighting for top-8, let alone top-4.

It's the same excuses as under Wenger. We finished in the top-4 and won trophies, but we were simply papering over cracks.

So, there won't be any scenes when we finish in the top-4 because it's a bare minimum this season. The top-4 positions fill itself.

It's already obvious Emery isn't the man to take us forward if we want to transform into proper challengers. We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger's left. Let that not be swept under the rug as every criticism of Emery is and has been.

Wenger had 22 years to get us to where we were. You're complaining that Emery hasn't revolutionised the club in a season.

We missed out on silverware and top 4 by an arse hair fielding a shambles of a squad. We've now improved and 4 games in you've gone full hate mode because you're panicking that we haven't matched klopps liverpool.

Your agenda against emery because ozil has declined is making you take some really extreme positions on how good or bad Emery is and it shows when you're complaining about how defensive emerys style is while lauding Mourinho, or doing 22 year Wenger comparisons versus 1 season emery or getting upset because people are pointing out the obvious about ozil.

Now top 4 isn't good enough for you because emery should have us playing like a title winning team after a season?

Baffling.

There's no point arguing with you on this. Because you make your own propositions, claim its mine, and end up arguing against that fictional standpoint.

What's baffling is you arguing against your false perception of my opinion.

Sprinkle in terms like agenda, hate, Ozil - and you have classic Zedie post.

[Emeryates]

Ozil has fewer assists than Auba and Laca for some time now.

[Zedie]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Top-4 doesn't matter this season because ManU and Chelsea are fighting for top-8, let alone top-4.

It's the same excuses as under Wenger. We finished in the top-4 and won trophies, but we were simply papering over cracks.

So, there won't be any scenes when we finish in the top-4 because it's a bare minimum this season. The top-4 positions fill itself.

It's already obvious Emery isn't the man to take us forward if we want to transform into proper challengers. We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger's left. Let that not be swept under the rug as every criticism of Emery is and has been.

Wenger had 22 years to get us to where we were. You're complaining that Emery hasn't revolutionised the club in a season.

We missed out on silverware and top 4 by an arse hair fielding a shambles of a squad. We've now improved and 4 games in you've gone full hate mode because you're panicking that we haven't matched klopps liverpool.

Your agenda against emery because ozil has declined is making you take some really extreme positions on how good or bad Emery is and it shows when you're complaining about how defensive emerys style is while lauding Mourinho, or doing 22 year Wenger comparisons versus 1 season emery or getting upset because people are pointing out the obvious about ozil.

Now top 4 isn't good enough for you because emery should have us playing like a title winning team after a season?

Baffling.

Wenger did not have 22 years. He won the double his first full season. He won the double again two season later. He went en entire season unbeaten seven years after joining. He contributed to our stadium move nine season later. These are just facts.

And if he kept that up, this thread wouldn't exist but it does for a reason.

He simply wasn't good enough at the end of his tenure and also contributed to that by filling the squad with deadwood that hastened his own demise.

⁰I remember those times fondly too, but that's all they are now, memories.

[gamechannel]

People who defend Emery keep missing the point. The argument against Emery is not whether he's better than Wenger or not. The issue with Emery is that even after a full season and 2 pre-seasons, the dude has not established any sort of identity and playing style. It would be one thing if his constant tinkering of the team and formations brought us better results than the previous regime but the fact remains that so far he's not done anything to change the fortunes of this club. We may very well make top 4 this season and that wouldn't be because Arsenal have become better - it's simply because Chelsea and ManU have become worse.

[Zedie]

How long will we use Wenger's final season to shield Unai Emery's incompetence?

The way I see it if we finish 5th this season, we'd still have fans celebrate winning the Better than Wenger's Final Season trophy.

Wenger wasn't good enough for a reason. Wenger is our greatest manager ever, so he had and has a lot of goodwill amongst Arsenal fans. Unai was hired to take us forward. If his barometer is Wenger's final season at Arsenal, he's not good enough. As simple.

We've spent £200m since Wenger left. We finished out of the top-4 last season. We have won 2, lost 1, and drew 1 this season so far. Not good, not bad. But knowing Emery's history, it's shaping up to be a classic Unai Emery season. That's my personal opinion and he might prove me wrong.

What's not an opinion is his stubborn, pragmatist tactics that almost always makes us reactive and not proactive in big games.

Wenger wasn't good enough.

Emery, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being an improvement over Wenger.

It's not that difficult.

.............. scenes if we make top 4.

No ones shielding Emery, he's what we have till the end of season, are you really going to spend the whole season moaning about him when he's going nowhere.

End of season if he doesn't make top 4 he's likely gone and even his most ardent supporters have accepted that fact so why are we having a re-run of Wenger Inn vs Out, when he's been here for one season and is in his last year of his contract?

Makes no sense banging the drum on this whatsoever.

Top-4 doesn't matter this season because ManU and Chelsea are fighting for top-8, let alone top-4.

It's the same excuses as under Wenger. We finished in the top-4 and won trophies, but we were simply papering over cracks.

So, there won't be any scenes when we finish in the top-4 because it's a bare minimum this season. The top-4 positions fill itself.

It's already obvious Emery isn't the man to take us forward if we want to transform into proper challengers. We've spent £200m as a club since Wenger's left. Let that not be swept under the rug as every criticism of Emery is and has been.

Wenger had 22 years to get us to where we were. You're complaining that Emery hasn't revolutionised the club in a season.

We missed out on silverware and top 4 by an arse hair fielding a shambles of a squad. We've now improved and 4 games in you've gone full hate mode because you're panicking that we haven't matched klopps liverpool.

Your agenda against emery because ozil has declined is making you take some really extreme positions on how good or bad Emery is and it shows when you're complaining about how defensive emerys style is while lauding Mourinho, or doing 22 year Wenger comparisons versus 1 season emery or getting upset because people are pointing out the obvious about ozil.

Now top 4 isn't good enough for you because emery should have us playing like a title winning team after a season?

Baffling.

There's no point arguing with you on this. Because you make your own propositions, claim its mine, and end up arguing against that fictional standpoint.

What's baffling is you arguing against your false perception of my opinion.

Sprinkle in terms like agenda, hate, Ozil - and you have classic Zedie post.

We've both been on here long enough to have read each others opinions on a lot of things, you didn't mention ozil in this convo but it's quite clear where your dislike of emery began from my perspective.

I really don't need to cross reference every opinion with you now do i?

Most of your complaints are based on God knows what:

"Emery has never finished in the top 4"

You ignore his time at PSG.

"Emery has no fixed style"

You ignore your complaints at wenger for sticking rigidly to one fixed style. You ignore that hes had one season to get to know the club and now a 2nd window to try and address the massive holes in our squad.

"Hes too defensive"

You ignore your own rants about wenger on countless occasions in big games getting destroyed when he tried to go toe to toe with the likes of city and liverpool etc.

You've even started counting CMs into your defensive player counts lol

"Klopp is an elite manager"

You ignore him having a worse start with liverpool and taking 6 years and untold investment to finally lift silverware

"We should have mourinho, arteta etc."

Mourinho is the most defensive manager to have managed any top team in England. Good enough for mou / emery cant be conservative against the likes of liverpool without you going off.

You also ignore half the names on your varied lists turning us down.

Or the likes of arteta having not managed an under 10s before.

4 games in and you're complaining about us not showing title winning form a year into the rebuild post Wenger.

Its relentless and you.

[swipe right]

We won’t make top four. I’m betting Leicester under Rogers takes fourth behind City, Liverpool and Spurs.

[ag6789]

Fourth or not is too early to tell. I believe we will be slugging it out with Chelsea, ManU, who are both going through transition ( ManU for 5 yrs, since SAF left, Chelsea, after every two yrs!!, not ideal either), and Spurs, the squad having reached an end of cycle, for 3rd-6th. But the real question is are there signs of improvement under Emery, after 14 months, since Wenger left, disgraced for falling out top four for successive seasons?
Not much in evidence. Same vulnerability in defense, poor midfield play ( a new nagetive, not what AFC was known for, at least since 1996), lack of settled line up and , I believe, lack of communication leading to confusion , and strangely letting too many active players leave w/o proven replacements. Example Monreal and Mikhi leaving suddenly, having featured in games right before. Reminds me of Nasri and Ox saga for which Wenger regime was well criticized.
Now, with the older Wenger group have largely been replaced, Unai has no excuses. He must find a way to start winning trophies again and take AFC to next level.