The Wizard of Özil

[StLGooner]

As shit as Ozil has been thus far this season I am at a loss as to how anyone cannot see that Ozil would automatically be better in a team like City that boss possession and have a far stronger midfield than ours. At a loss. You people are crackers.

Again, hypothetical and fantasy football stuff that can’t be proven. What can we prove? How do we get the best out of him at Arsenal because he’s not leaving any time soon.

Hypothetical ? Its common sense FFS.

Would a proven world class attacking midfielder produce better creative numbers playing for the best team in the Premier League than playing for a team a few levels below?

Ooooh ... thats a tough one, we can't prove it, all the data points toward him being shit in a team with better players.

I missed this one.

The question you need to ask yourself is why he isn't playing at a higher standard when Lacazette and Aubameyang are way better than strikers than what he's previously worked with at Arsenal.

Why do you think that is?

Could it be the new coach, new teammates, new formations, playing out of position, his personal life with the national team, not playing on a consistent basis, or maybe just out of form like all players get?

Or is he just all of the sudden shit now, which can happen of course?

But what is your opinion on why he's off form? Do you not think he can get it back? Do you think he's our best option. I really just am confused where you stand on this, cause your argument is weird to me.

Are you just arguing whether he can get into the City team or not? What is your stance on Ozil?

[Power n Glory]

As shit as Ozil has been thus far this season I am at a loss as to how anyone cannot see that Ozil would automatically be better in a team like City that boss possession and have a far stronger midfield than ours. At a loss. You people are crackers.

Again, hypothetical and fantasy football stuff that can’t be proven. What can we prove? How do we get the best out of him at Arsenal because he’s not leaving any time soon.

Hypothetical ? Its common sense FFS.

Would a proven world class attacking midfielder produce better creative numbers playing for the best team in the Premier League than playing for a team a few levels below?

Ooooh ... thats a tough one, we can't prove it, all the data points toward him being shit in a team with better players.

I missed this one.

The question you need to ask yourself is why he isn't playing at a higher standard when Lacazette and Aubameyang are way better than strikers than what he's previously worked with at Arsenal.

Why do you think that is?

Could it be the new coach, new teammates, new formations, playing out of position, his personal life with the national team, not playing on a consistent basis, or maybe just out of form like all players get?

Or is he just all of the sudden shit now, which can happen of course?

But what is your opinion on why he's off form? Do you not think he can get it back? Do you think he's our best option. I really just am confused where you stand on this, cause your argument is weird to me.

Are you just arguing whether he can get into the City team or not? What is your stance on Ozil?

It could be a number of things. I think Ozil is a talented player and could have been up there with the greats in football. When I watch him play, I can tell when he's switched on a ready play or when it's going to be quiet game for him. Not sure if it's a lack of confidence or just a lack of drive and hunger to be recognised as the best. I can't really read what's going on in his head and we'll only find out once he's retired as a player and writes book.

But speaking of retirement, he's also getting old. The injuries are stacking up and you gradually start to lose form once on the wrong end of 30. I can't see him having a sudden resurgence at this point. To be honest, I would have thought this would have been the season to prove all his critics wrong. He had a rough summer with Germany and with the changes here at Arsenal, I was hoping he'd morph into beast mode and keep it consistent but that hasn't happened. I kind of knew that when we appointed Emery that he'd have to convince Emery because he's a coach that wants busy defenders on defence and doesn't usually use a number 10 in the middle of the pitch.

Speaking o the Number 10 role, besides things changing at Arsenal and Ozil getting older, not many teams play with a number 10 these days. If they do, they're having to work their socks off on defence as well as producing numbers on attack. In a lot of cases you see attack mids being deployed out wide and they're banging in goals as well as assisting. I don't think Ozil wants to play that way even though he has the pace, ball control and technique to play in wide areas and he often drifts out wide as well. Formation wise, I'm really not sure what the future holds for him unless he adapts to what's required.

As he's getting older, I'm thinking maybe he could play the CM role in a similar fashion to what we saw from Cazorla but he'll have to work really hard on pressing and his defensive awareness. Depending on who we buy this summer, I wouldn't mind seeing if he could play there. I think we've got the wrong sort of player in Xhaka but that's another story.

That's it really. I think it's on Ozil to find his best form whilst he's out of favour and maybe the manager will have to tinker with the system to try and get the best out of him or revive his career by playing him in a deeper role. A Pirlo type. But I really don't know why he's not performing with the attacking players we currently have. But I know at his age, the club will start looking for an alternative instead of trying to accommodate if we run out of ideas with him. It's not what people want to hear but at 30 that's the reality.

[ag6789]

He's back with Bellerin and others. Hope to get back into a winning run again. Things looking up!!

[Goonerz]

We really have to stop dealing in hypotheticals with this Ozil debate. I still can't understand why he isn't getting more assists for Lacazette and Aubameyang. I always thought he'd flourish once we had taken Giroud out of the starting line and put pacey strikers up front.

Majority of Ozil assists in his best ever season for us came from passes to Giroud.

It’s a myth about how Ozil would destroy the assist record if he was in the City team with Aguero.
The guy had one of the greatest players / goal machine to ever grace the world of football (C.Ronaldo), he also had the likes of Bezema and Higuain etc. But I cannot recall him ever hitting 19 or 20 assists in the La Liga. But he had 19 assist with the so called donkey / lamppost Giroud in the EPL. And most of those assists were from free kicks and corners that were always very dependent on the likes of Giroud or our defenders convert. They were 50/50 chances and the moment the luck ran out it all dried up.

[Yago]

Takes more than one player to boss possession homie

Cesc pretty much did it on his own tbh

[Power n Glory]

We really have to stop dealing in hypotheticals with this Ozil debate. I still can't understand why he isn't getting more assists for Lacazette and Aubameyang. I always thought he'd flourish once we had taken Giroud out of the starting line and put pacey strikers up front.

Majority of Ozil assists in his best ever season for us came from passes to Giroud.

It’s a myth about how Ozil would destroy the assist record if he was in the City team with Aguero.
The guy had one of the greatest players / goal machine to ever grace the world of football (C.Ronaldo), he also had the likes of Bezema and Higuain etc. But I cannot recall him ever hitting 19 or 20 assists in the La Liga. But he had 19 assist with the so called donkey / lamppost Giroud in the EPL. And most of those assists were from free kicks and corners that were always very dependent on the likes of Giroud or our defenders convert. They were 50/50 chances and the moment the luck ran out it all dried up.

Pretty much. A lot of the assists came from cut backs, crosses and corners. He's a different sort of passer. I rarely see him play a through ball for the striker that puts a striker clean through on goal. He seems more about precision and playing the ball into feet and not into space for an attacker to run on to.

[Ach]

lol I wouldn't agree with goonerz on Ozil. This guy thinks he's shit and was a flop at real and has been regularly been taken apart on here by many. This thread is flooded by the tears of goonerz.

Saying that, he did have the best post on here calling Ozil a flop cos he was shit v Barca one time in a 5-0 defeat. Using that logic, Ronaldo was shit there as well.

[StLGooner]

Takes more than one player to boss possession homie

Cesc pretty much did it on his own tbh

He did? Man I could have swore there were 10 more players on the pitch with him, maybe I was seeing things.

[Goonerz]

As shit as Ozil has been thus far this season I am at a loss as to how anyone cannot see that Ozil would automatically be better in a team like City that boss possession and have a far stronger midfield than ours. At a loss. You people are crackers.

Ryan Fraser has 9 assists for B'mouth this season, is that because he's playing for a top class team? surrounded by a world class midfield? or just maybe is it because this season he's playing better than Ozil?

You keep saying Ozil would do better at City whilst ignoring the fact there's not a cat in hell's chance of Pep every playing him, Pep demands his midfield players work their bollocks off pressing and defending ... yet we all know that Ozil couldn't press a grape

Your whole City argument is just smoke and mirrors, all that matters are the facts and they state that this season 981 minutes 3 goals, 1 assist. So forget about Man City those numbers would only just get you a game at Huddersfield

I just laugh at this delusion myself. Pep will never accept a lazy sweetie like Ozil. The man likes high energy, high pressing and intensity players. Look at how he treated Yaya Toure and Aguero when he first moved to city. They were known as the laziest, but Pep showed them who was boss. Yaya and his agent started crying to the media and to whoever could listen. Aguero was dropped so many times that he was forced to change his ways and adapt peps high energy style. Now he is a hard working guy.

And didn’t Pep have 2 opportunities to sign Ozil but never even lifted a finger? When Madrid got rid in 2013 that was the first opportunity for him to sign ozil but passed it on. Then again last season when he ran down his contract hoping for the so called big clubs to come in for him, pep instead went for Sanchez. He refused to take a so called world class Ozil on a free but instead opted to go for £60 million Mahrez from Leicester.

Imagine, a so called best attacking midfielders in the world runs down his contract thinking clubs will be fighting for him, but not a single big club showed any interest. According to his agent, Only Chinese clubs came in for him.

Tells you all you need to know about where Ozil is since his Madrid days.

[EliteKiller]

I think the telling sides of the arguments on here are the timelines and the real versus the imaginary ...

If you look at timelines:

No sensible football watcher would argue that Ozil for Real Madrid and Germany was a great player in two fantastic sides. It's also hard to argue that Ozil with Arsenal in 15/16 wasn't a top EPL player. So 2010 - 2015 Ozil was and is recognized as a great creative midfield player.

But equally no sensible football watcher would deny that Ozil's form has been way off that level ever since, until this season both his fitness and his form are nowhere near a top EPL player. So 2016 - 2018 Ozil has not performed as a great creative midfield player.

So ... that's the reality now what about the imaginary?

Ozil can't perform because he's surrounded by crap players? Well during 2015/6 his only really good season in the EPL he had Giroud, Sanchez, Walcott, Ramsey around and in-front of him ... were they all world class? and where are they all now? Today he has Auba, Lacca, Guendozi, Xhaka are they honestly so much worse than Arsenal 2015/6?

Ozil would be great at Man City? That's just a flight of fancy, Ozil's style of play is nowhere near the way Pep's Man City play, there is no evidence that Pep has ever considered Ozil as a possible City player ... to claim 'Ozil would be great' at Man City is frankly unsubstantiated guesswork.

Peak Ozil - great creative midfield player ... Current Ozil - wouldn't start at any top European side. Is that so hard to agree with?

[theHotHead]

As shit as Ozil has been thus far this season I am at a loss as to how anyone cannot see that Ozil would automatically be better in a team like City that boss possession and have a far stronger midfield than ours. At a loss. You people are crackers.

Again, hypothetical and fantasy football stuff that can’t be proven. What can we prove? How do we get the best out of him at Arsenal because he’s not leaving any time soon.

Hypothetical ? Its common sense FFS.

Would a proven world class attacking midfielder produce better creative numbers playing for the best team in the Premier League than playing for a team a few levels below?

Ooooh ... thats a tough one, we can't prove it, all the data points toward him being shit in a team with better players.

I missed this one.

The question you need to ask yourself is why he isn't playing at a higher standard when Lacazette and Aubameyang are way better than strikers than what he's previously worked with at Arsenal. When we had Giroud here, we all dreamed of what could be with a better striker and now we have two.

Ozil has made over 40 appearances with Lacazette. Only 4 assists from Ozil.
Over 20 appearances with Aubameyang - 2 assists.

On current form he wouldn't be playing for Pep's team so I wouldn't assume he'd hit the ground running with another team when he's been under par for us and Germany.

Rude boy, foolish argument!! You ran up your mouth to someone else saying they were moving the goalposts for their argument and you are doing EXACTLY THE SAME. None of what you wrote addresses what I wrote!!

Are you telling me that Ozil of right now, playing forbthe best team in the Premier League, would not produce better numbers than he is playing in a team a few levels below??? Answer the question sir.

[theHotHead]

complaining we aren't bossing possession enough to have ozil be effective? lol, that's why Ozil is in the team, he's the one that should be bossing possession for us

No its not and you just proved you have no clue about Ozil and his game. Ozil does not boss possession, he is not the glue, he is not Pirlo or Cazola or Modric. Ozil gets the ball and opens teams up. Ozil often has to drop deeper and deeper during games to get on the ball because he either doesn't get it or when he gets it he doesn't have much support or options - the options you get playing in a team that dominate possession.

Yes, his game relies on others playing a supporting role, but when that is in place Ozil produces more than any other creative midfielder as proven in Germany, Spain and his early years at Arsenal when we dominated possession.

[theHotHead]

We really have to stop dealing in hypotheticals with this Ozil debate. I still can't understand why he isn't getting more assists for Lacazette and Aubameyang. I always thought he'd flourish once we had taken Giroud out of the starting line and put pacey strikers up front.

Majority of Ozil assists in his best ever season for us came from passes to Giroud.

It’s a myth about how Ozil would destroy the assist record if he was in the City team with Aguero.
The guy had one of the greatest players / goal machine to ever grace the world of football (C.Ronaldo), he also had the likes of Bezema and Higuain etc. But I cannot recall him ever hitting 19 or 20 assists in the La Liga. But he had 19 assist with the so called donkey / lamppost Giroud in the EPL. And most of those assists were from free kicks and corners that were always very dependent on the likes of Giroud or our defenders convert. They were 50/50 chances and the moment the luck ran out it all dried up.

You clown!! In his 3 seasons at Real he got 19, 19 and 16 assists in La Liga

[theHotHead]

Takes more than one player to boss possession homie

Cesc pretty much did it on his own tbh

Like I said in a preceding comment, Cesc is a Pirlo, that was their job, likewise Cazorla, they are quarterbacks that dictate the play.

Ozil never did it for Germany or for Real, he created chances, that was his job. Its like complaining that Fabregas couldn't dribble, thats not his role. Next people will be complainig that Ozil is a shit target man.

[theHotHead]

EK, are you being serious??

Ryan Fraser has played almost twice the minutes in the Prem that Ozil has. Your argument is weak. And you conveniently ignore the fact Ozil has been ravaged with injuries.