The Wizard of Özil

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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Goonerz » Sat May 02, 2020 12:42 am

More nonsense. You have no idea who did or did not come in for him, you are not privvy to any info. your arguments never involve facts.

"When I got an offer from China last summer, however, I didn’t need his [Pires's] advice because the offer was too absurd," Ozil explains in his forthcoming autobiography 'Gunning for Greatness'.

"The Chinese were prepared to pay me £100 million net over a period of five years. A fairy tale amount of money that went beyond the limits of my imagination.

"In spite of this, it took me less than three minutes to decline the offer. My agent, Erkut, called me to let me know about the bid. He said: ‘I think we’re agreed what we’re going to do, aren’t we? You won’t consider it, will you?’

So basically with Ozil we only always hear rumours about the PSG, Chinese, Middle Eastern, Turkish, MLS clubs etc being interested him. May be ozil is just a special case that all these massive clubs that want him just keep it private and undercover. How convenient, ey? Lol
Ozil can confirm a chinese or Middle Eastern club being interested in him but won’t disclose a big club showing interest in him? Weird. Lol

Imagine Bayern, Madrid, Barcelona, United, Juventus, City, Chelsea etc coming in for Ozil since 2013 and not a single paper, sports channel, sports journalist is aware. No leaks etc.
But when the likes of PSG, Chinese, Turkish, Middle Eastern or MLS come in for him it is all over the media. :biggrin:
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Sat May 02, 2020 2:41 am

Offers from Chinese clubs usually aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Drogba and Anelka went to Shanghai Shenhua in 2012 after winning the Champions Leagu. Drogba moved to Galatasaray and Anelka to Juve (loan) after 4 months because the club stopped paying their massive wages.

Axel Witsel was there for one year before moving to Dortmund. Paulinho was there for 2 years before going to Barca.

Either the club can simply renege on their contract or the government can at a moment's notice order them to slash wages or raise taxes. What're the players going to do, take the club to court? In China?

If Gareth Bale had gone, the same thing would've happened. He'd be back in Europe within 6 months.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby VCC » Sat May 02, 2020 3:20 am

Try and keep to facts you can not claim people are not privy to personal circumstances with out providing proof that you in fact are and that's both sides of the argument!!.
Now keep it to now and currently the man imo is overpaid and unreliable and does not appear to have the tools to change the way I feel,
He is not at Real madrid he is at Arsenal.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby NovaGB » Sun May 03, 2020 1:27 pm

If Ozil played for any of the other top 6 and produced what he does for us nowadays, ie 2-3 good games a season... on a wage double of the next top earner, we'd constantly banter the said fans about him, as they do us.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby VCC » Sun May 03, 2020 9:12 pm

Simply the ship has sailed with Ozil

It was purely a very poor business deal from Arsenal perspective, and in the current covid environment on top he will play his time out at Arsenals expense as he is intitiled.
Going forward all huge monetary contracts should have
-A negotiated amount of games needed to stay fit for.
- A minimum expectation for said possition
Eg goals, assists, shots stopped or what ever
Thing is if a player is not prepared to back himself to provide a personal target seasonally then dont touch him
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 04, 2020 11:33 am

Goonerz wrote:I promised to not engage with you but some rebuttals were poking at me :biggrin:

I'm glad you did, nothing I like more than healthy debate.

Goonerz wrote:Your hatred of Ozil prevents you from acknowledging his many achievements and accolades. these records are not made up by Ozil fans, the stats are not created by Ozil fans - they apply to EVERY FOOTBALL PLAYER. World Cup Winner with Germany,
Mertesacker, Podolski, Mustafi, André Schürrle etc all won the world cup.

Ozil scored the most goals for Germany during their 2014 world Cup qualification campaign, he got shifted out wide to accommodate an injury to Marco Reus apparently but still managed to be joint second in chances created behind Lionel Messi only in the tournament proper. So unlike the names you listed, Ozil was a key member of the World Cup winning team.

Goonerz wrote:Voted 5 time national team player of the year by the German public.
How was this voting done? Online where even non-Germans can vote and you can vote as many times as you like? Twitter type of polls / survey? How many times has he ever been voted for by his peers (fellow teammates) apart from his loyal followers. ;-)

Not sure what relevance that has. The fact that he was voted by the German public as their best player 5 times tells you the German public rate him very highly - even if YOU didn't.

Goonerz wrote:Most assists during his time in the Bundesliga, Most assists during his time in La Liga.
Most assists during his first contract at Arsenal in the Premier League - only superceded during his 2nd contract by players playing in more competitive teams - and during the worst period at Arsenal regarding form and quality since 1997.

Assists
2013/14 = 9 assists

2014/15 = 5 assists

2015/16 = 19 assists

2016/17 = 9 assists

2017/18 = 8 assists

2018/19 = 2 assists

2019/20 = 2 assists

Only ever got double figures in assists once in his whole Arsenal career. Take away the 2015/16 season anomaly and he is hitting in the same assist region as the likes of Henderson etc. Lol
Using words like “THE MOST” gives out this false outlook. But once you dig into it you find that he has only ever hit double figures in assists in one half season. Never came anywhere close to replicating it even if he got better strikers than donkey giroud. For a lukewarm not so switched on fan, hearing terms like “THE MOST or THE BEST” might mislead them into thinking “Wow, he must be hitting closer to 15 assists per season.” But when in truth he has struggled to even hit 10 assists per season in his whole Arsenal career. Aren’t we accustomed to a No10 or any so called top class Attacking midfielder hitting at least 12-15 assists per season and scoring goals a bit, with some exceptions of course. I thought that was the gauge. And for a player like Ozil that spends 90% of his time in and around the oppositions penalty box or half those assist stats are terrible. It’s you guys that say his sole job is to assist / create. He basically plays as a second striker most of the time and he struggles to hit double figures in assists later on goals.

It’s all donkey Giroud and his other teammates fault I guess.

But yet no other player in the Premier League bettered his stats during that period. Yes, his effectiveness has dropped off during his second contract but I would put that down more so to the reduction in squad quality during that time and idiocy of the managers than Ozil's ability.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 04, 2020 11:38 am

Goonerz wrote:Total lie, nobody tries to make out that Ozil is any wow player or highly sought after. What people say is Ozil is a much better player than we are seeing and that selling him would be a bad move because, with better teammates and better manager his form will improve and it will be our loss.
This is what I call delusion.
People will just keep burying their head in the sand trying to convince themselves. They think that the more or the harder they say something it becomes reality.
Ozil is turning 32 years soon and we still have people that think he will come good. Been saying he will come good for more than 4-5 years. We are still waiting. May be when his contract runs out next summer then may be that is when he will finally come good.
This reminds me of how we all rationalise with our young players at a given time. He will come good. Then he turns 22, he will come good. Then he turns 25, we will come good. Then he turns 29, (He was playing under the wrong manager. Was not played in his best position. Never got enough playing time etc..)
This is like expecting an 80 year old woman to get pregnant when it was near impossible for her to get pregnant in her 20’-40’s. it absolutely make no sense.

Hahahaha
Smh

No it is not. Ozil has proved sporadically that he has top quality performances in this league still in him, the issue has been getting those performances on a regular basis. Most of the time (I mean 80%) the manager does not help Ozil, either be picking personnel, systems or formations that do not get the best out of him. If we added class around Ozil he would flourish. How can he be expected to play his game when he is either being asked to defend all the time (because we are so shit defensively) or he has players around him that can't get him the ball or when he does have the ball he has shit options. Half of the time our forwards don't move, the movement up top is non-existent. Ozil is not a winger and so won't bomb down the wing and cross the ball, he needs intelligent movement.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 04, 2020 11:41 am

Goonerz wrote:Hogwash ! No Arsenal fan created the "Chances Created" stat that Ozil haters love to decry ! There is no other stat that you are talking about, but you sensationalise your post with this [b]"special categories" comment. Nonsense. Name the other stats if I am not correct.[/b]

Chances Created.

Best No10 in the world.

Best as covering the most ground.

Best at Pre-Assist (The pass before the pass before the pass that leads to the assist). Lol

Best at Creating Space for others.

Best at finding pockets of space.

Needs better players around him in order for them to make him look good. Lol

Best as being the Cherry on top of the cake.

The most unappreciated player.

The most Charitable player in the world.

The Marketability machine. / Shirt seller.

Ozil is FERRARI being off-roaded.
Etc.

Things like this are what I mean by the “OZIL SPECIAL PLEADING CATEGORIES“. :biggrin: :)

As I suspected, you were unable to name a single so-called special category that fans of Ozil created. The only stat people use is chances Created.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 04, 2020 11:50 am

Goonerz wrote:I am not going to criticise you on this point for having a different opinion, I don't agree with it but its subjective. Ancelotti didn't want Ozil, Mourinho loved Ozil and said the club made a mistake in selling him. 2 managers with opposing opinions. Interestingly Ancelotti never managed Ozil but Mourinho did - that tells me all I need to know.

Again, it’s not just subjective. The evidence and facts back me up.
Why would a club like Madrid get rid of their so called second best asset (Ozil)? Explain why it was only Ozil, Di maria and Higuain that were put up for sale? That’s like saying Modric is the second best Madrid player after Ronaldo, the best midfielder in the world, sells millions in shirts, has a very strong loyal following etc. But then gets for a better better player. What would that say about the talk of Modric being the best this and that ans only second to Ronaldo?

So Mourinho loved Ozil and said it was a mistake that they sold him? Now, Mourinho that same window had the chance and choice to sign Ozil for Chelsea. Why didn’t he sign him? But instead waited for Cesc the next window.
Mourinho had another opportunity to sign his beloved Ozil when he took over at United. Ozil ran down his contract to the last 6 months in 2017 hawking himself to the other big clubs. Mourinho as always just kept his routines ozil sweet talk. Telling us how we should try our best to keep him. Nearly each season Mourinho would give us tips on how to get the best out of Ozil like he did himself at Madrid. Telling us how to handle sensitive Ozil in order to get the best our of him. Lol
But guess what, with all that constant sweet Ozil talk Mourinho never tried to sign him at Chelsea or Man United. But he went all in for Cesc at Chelsea and Sanchez at United.. Why do you think that. He has all the opportunities to sign Ozil. But always chose not to. Is it because he knew what a primadonna Ozil is. Lol
And again. How come no other top class manager has wanted to take Ozil since Madrid got rid of him? Been at Arsenal and no one has shown any interest apart from the usual suspects; PSG, Chinese, Turkish, Middle Eastern and MLS clubs. Arsenal have been desperate to get rid of him since 2018. That we are even willing to pay as much as half his wages if someone can take him off our hands. With him being this so called Top top class player, world cup winner, best No10 in the world, Marketability machine (money making machine for a club etc). Not a single serious club has ever confirmed this over the top hype talk you his loyalists keep coming up with on a consistent basis. :biggrin:
What does that say about him? That is why I keep saying that you guys over do this Ozil brand. He has personal brand to his followers.
Take him out of his social media bubble and you will see that clubs see him differently than you his loyalists. His brand is geared towards his already baked in fan crowd. Outside of that bubble is where reality hits.
Can you see my point?

Totally disagree with this (surprise surprise). This has already been answered. Madrid were about to make a world record busting bid for Bale, they had a blessing of riches in that create spot and Ancelotti didn't rate Ozil. His effectiveness to his teammates was known - Ronaldo was not happy with the sale and Sergio Ramos thought the club made a mistake.

You talk about why Mourinho didn't buy Ozil, how does anyone know, as I remember nobody even knew we were going for him. And like I have said before, you have no idea who has or has not been in for Ozil, nothing you have presented is factual, it is all based on your opinion and is completely subjective like I said.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 04, 2020 11:52 am

Goonerz wrote:More nonsense. You have no idea who did or did not come in for him, you are not privvy to any info. your arguments never involve facts.

"When I got an offer from China last summer, however, I didn’t need his [Pires's] advice because the offer was too absurd," Ozil explains in his forthcoming autobiography 'Gunning for Greatness'.

"The Chinese were prepared to pay me £100 million net over a period of five years. A fairy tale amount of money that went beyond the limits of my imagination.

"In spite of this, it took me less than three minutes to decline the offer. My agent, Erkut, called me to let me know about the bid. He said: ‘I think we’re agreed what we’re going to do, aren’t we? You won’t consider it, will you?’

So basically with Ozil we only always hear rumours about the PSG, Chinese, Middle Eastern, Turkish, MLS clubs etc being interested him. May be ozil is just a special case that all these massive clubs that want him just keep it private and undercover. How convenient, ey? Lol
Ozil can confirm a chinese or Middle Eastern club being interested in him but won’t disclose a big club showing interest in him? Weird. Lol

Imagine Bayern, Madrid, Barcelona, United, Juventus, City, Chelsea etc coming in for Ozil since 2013 and not a single paper, sports channel, sports journalist is aware. No leaks etc.
But when the likes of PSG, Chinese, Turkish, Middle Eastern or MLS come in for him it is all over the media. :biggrin:

Aaaah, so straight from the horses mouth, you are aware of one approach, who knows how many others there have been. Unless you are in the know ...... you don't know.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby swipe right » Sat May 09, 2020 12:17 pm

Is this the best Arsenal goal this century? I watch it again and again and again and it just leaves me in wonderment. Show me a better goal.
https://youtu.be/PNePnJUQTek
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby NovaGB » Sat May 09, 2020 12:58 pm

swipe right wrote:Is this the best Arsenal goal this century? I watch it again and again and again and it just leaves me in wonderment. Show me a better goal.
https://youtu.be/PNePnJUQTek


Ramsey vs Galatasaray
Girouds scorpion kick

i mean there has been loads, that was a awesome team goal though, as was the one where Jack scored against Norwich
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Ach » Sat May 09, 2020 1:42 pm

Bergkamp v Newcastle
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Marsbar100 » Sat May 09, 2020 2:27 pm

Henry vs united
Aaron Ramsey aka "The Drought Killer" 2008-2019
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby swipe right » Sat May 09, 2020 3:38 pm

Ach wrote:Bergkamp v Newcastle

Solo effort. And maybe a fluke.
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