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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Zedie » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:59 pm

But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Sims » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:01 pm

Zedie wrote:But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.


I've never said he doesn't drift, but him starting out wide is at the cost of another outlet in which he could provide for.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Mexal » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:13 pm

Zedie wrote:But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.


He drifts out wide to bring defenders with him and create space centrally for someone to run into it. If he starts out wide and drifts inside, he compacts the middle with Cazorla, Ramsey and Giroud already occupying that area and no one really drifts into the space he created out wide. It gets even worse with Sanchez who also likes to cut inside. The starting position does matter, especially for Ozil since one of his biggest attributes is creating space for others.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Zedie » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:14 pm

Mexal wrote:
Zedie wrote:But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.


He drifts out wide to bring defenders with him and create space centrally for someone to run into it. If he starts out wide and drifts inside, he compacts the middle with Cazorla, Ramsey and Giroud already occupying that area and no one really drifts into the space he created out wide. It gets even worse with Sanchez who also likes to cut inside. The starting position does matter, especially for Ozil since one of his biggest attributes is creating space for others.



You both do have a point tbf, but i think theres situations where it could warrant him on the wing if it came to it:

Welbz
Sanchez Ozil Walcott
Cazorla


v a high line, ball playing team would be devastation. Same could be said with Santi in the hole

Versus a deep sitting bus park team, that pace would be ineffective.

Giroud
Ozil <->Cazorla Sanchez
Ramsey


Would be better for teams we had to pass through. Keep in mind Ozil and Cazorla will be pretty much doing the same job interchanging, so not really an issue imo.

Ive said it a few times, but Ozil needed to get tonk to be able to hack it in the PL. Him v a Matic or a Cattermole or Stoke just gives me shivers tbh. Now, he has gotten the size, while he's there physically, he just has to believe in it mentally and shit will start clicking imo.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:16 pm

Zedie wrote:But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.


He is a no. 10 first and foremost, where he drifts from there is secondary - he needs to be deployed in his proper position.

Can't believe people are even arguing that Ozil playing on the wing or centrally makes no difference; we've heard from the horse's mouth that it in fact does.

Ozil is not a winger, we payed 42.5M for the worlds best no.10, play him there. Simple and logical concept.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Zedie » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:17 pm

Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Zedie wrote:But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.


He is a no. 10 first and foremost, where he drifts from there is secondary - he needs to be deployed in his proper position.

Can't believe people are even arguing that Ozil playing on the wing or centrally makes no difference; we've heard from the horse's mouth that it in fact does.

Ozil is not a winger, we payed 42.5M for the worlds best no.10, play him there. Simple and logical concept.



Please tell him to stop spending half his time on the wing when he is put in the no.10 spot then.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:22 pm

Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Zedie wrote:But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.


He is a no. 10 first and foremost, where he drifts from there is secondary - he needs to be deployed in his proper position.

Can't believe people are even arguing that Ozil playing on the wing or centrally makes no difference; we've heard from the horse's mouth that it in fact does.

Ozil is not a winger, we payed 42.5M for the worlds best no.10, play him there. Simple and logical concept.


Add to the fact that when he was on the wing all everyone did was moan and say how crap he was doing, but now certain people want more of that??

Also to the other persons comment, where Ozil drifts is none of your concern, the whole point of the free role No10 is to do exactly that, where he leaves gaps it pulls defenders out of position so others can run into those areas.
Henry spent lots of time wide left yet I don't remember a whole bunch of people saying make him a winger.
Ozil said he prefers central even Wenger twice this season has also said he's better central.

How much evidence do certain individuals actually need?
Last edited by DiamondGooner on Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:23 pm

Zedie wrote:
Please tell him to stop spending half his time on the wing when he is put in the no.10 spot then.


So your theory is to put the best no.10 on the wing because he drifts there anyway...Cool.

Juts give up on this angle, Ozil is not a winger. Seems the whole footballing world bar you (and Wenger at times) can see this.
Last edited by Va-Va-Voom on Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Zedie » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:23 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Zedie wrote:But he doesn't stick to that position and never has man.

Even this fabled villa match where he tore it to shreds from AM (or was it gala?) He was deployed centrally and provided his assist from a classic wing play , like a classic winger.

next time he starts in the middle, you will see him drifting out wide a lot to find space, especially if the op team pack the midfield like chelsea or other bus teams do.


He is a no. 10 first and foremost, where he drifts from there is secondary - he needs to be deployed in his proper position.

Can't believe people are even arguing that Ozil playing on the wing or centrally makes no difference; we've heard from the horse's mouth that it in fact does.

Ozil is not a winger, we payed 42.5M for the worlds best no.10, play him there. Simple and logical concept.


Add to the fact that when he was on the wing all everyone did was moan and say how crap he was doing, but now certain people want more of that??

Also to the other persons comment, where Ozil drifts is none of your concern, the whole point of the free role No10 is to do exactly that, where he leaves gaps it pulls defenders out of position so others can run into those areas.
Henry spent lots of time wide left yet I don't remember a whole bunch of people saying make him a winner.
Ozil said he prefers central even Wenger twice this season has also said he's better central.

How much evidence do certain individuals actually need?



Those heat maps that you had to ignore to keep your point alive last time would be a good start.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:24 pm

Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Zedie wrote:
Please tell him to stop spending half his time on the wing when he is put in the no.10 spot then.


So your theory is to put the best no.10 on the wing because he drifts there anyway...Cool.


Its draining isn't it.

I'm going out for a drink, see you tomorrow.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:27 pm

Zedie wrote:Those heat maps that you had to ignore to keep your point alive last time would be a good start.


Those heat maps were of the games where he was played wide. :doh:

That was a debate between me and A-F (someone who can actually make a point) about whether he was sticking to the left or playing in a free role.

It was a separate debate entirely.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Tarquinius » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:32 pm

The difference between him being in the number 10 position and being wide isn't just where he plays during the match; as the designated left/right winger he is expected to overlap with the fullback and provide defensive duties, which is what doesn't come naturally to him.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:35 pm

Tarquinius wrote:The difference between him being in the number 10 position and being wide isn't just where he plays during the match; as the designated left/right winger he is expected to overlap with the fullback and provide defensive duties, which is what doesn't come naturally to him.


Its obvious isn't it.

Another way that this discussion is over, question: When everyones fit, if Ozil is playing on the left (and i expect badly) where is Walcott going to play...............?

End of thread.

Bye.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Santi » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:58 am

It's like saying Theo is a striker or perfectly fine replacing Giroud because he cuts in all the time and often drifts around the centre. He's a winger who cuts in and does very well from doing so - he wouldn't be half as good in a lone striker role.

Ozil is a CAM and all CAM's drift and float around but that doesn't mean they should start wide. The positions are different just as the winger/wide forward positions are different from the central ST. It's not a reason for him giving the ball away like he was early in the season but it's just not where he should be played. Should be CAM who can go wide rather than a wide player who can go CAM but has the job of a winger.
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Re: Soooo Ozil's back

Postby Angelito » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:24 am

It's also like saying Grioud is a defender because he helps us clear set-pieces and is immense in the air.

#LogicNoGo
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