The Wizard of Özil

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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Angelito » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:06 am

Nuggets wrote:
Angelito wrote:The fastest to 50 assists in the Prem, whilst having the prolific Giroud, Sanogo, and Welbeck for much of his time here—yet, he gets abused like he's a rapist.

Tsk, tsk.


Why do you always live in the past where Ozil is concerned, the guy is rubbish now and needs to go.


It's not living in the past. It's showing the amount of hatred people seem to harbor towards Ozil for no reason at all.

Let me make it clear that Ozil is past it. I've said this multiple times and it's not just the EL final performance, in which Emery told him to shadow Jorginho than play his natural game. It's simple that Ozil isn't as effective as he was even a season and half ago. I'd be glad if we sold him because it'd mean the end of this Ozil saga and people could go to finding another scapegoat after Wenger and Ozil.

That said, the chances created mumbo-jumbo wasn't created for Ozil alone and that stat shows, he's still our most creative player. And, that's in his worst season ever and despite all the issues Emery's had with him. So, somewhere, we have to look at the alternatives and in our existing squad, it's Iwobi and Mkhitaryan. Mkhi doesn't have Ozil's vision and Iwobi is Iwobi.

No player deserves such sheer malignity. At the end of the day, Ozil is simply an Arsenal player who's been with us in good times and in bad times. It's okay to dislike a player. What's not okay is to show utter resent towards a player who's rarely ever been an issue at Arsenal. There are bigger issues—much more pressing than Ozil.

Ozil is not the same Ozil of old. But he's done nothing wrong to warrant such vicious attacks on him.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Fenice » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:42 pm

What Angelito said. He should be moved along, but the anger level people have over him is ridiculous. Also, he isn’t our biggest problem on the pitch. So maybe when he’s gone people will realize that, or, maybe we will sign better midfielders and wide players so the ones we currently have can be relegated to the bench. Our defense is a bigger issue ffs...
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:05 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Losmeister wrote:glad the chances created got used again.

pass to xhaka, he blooters 15 yds over from 25 yds...chance created.

The same stat is applied to EVERY player in the world, but but but because it is Ozil and Ozil leads it, the stat is somehow invalid :lol:


We've had this debate before but I have never heard anyone bring that particular stat up until we signed Ozil. In fact, to this day nobody looks at that stat for any other player unless it's Ozil.

And before we signed Ozil how many of us had access to stats ? Timed have changed, there are far more stats available and accessible by us all for free
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:08 pm

Fenice wrote:What Angelito said. He should be moved along, but the anger level people have over him is ridiculous. Also, he isn’t our biggest problem on the pitch. So maybe when he’s gone people will realize that, or, maybe we will sign better midfielders and wide players so the ones we currently have can be relegated to the bench. Our defense is a bigger issue ffs...

But but but Ozil earns £350k per week, he should be able to fix our defence too!
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:10 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Losmeister wrote:glad the chances created got used again.

pass to xhaka, he blooters 15 yds over from 25 yds...chance created.

The same stat is applied to EVERY player in the world, but but but because it is Ozil and Ozil leads it, the stat is somehow invalid :lol:


We've had this debate before but I have never heard anyone bring that particular stat up until we signed Ozil. In fact, to this day nobody looks at that stat for any other player unless it's Ozil.

And before we signed Ozil how many of us had access to stats ? Timed have changed, there are far more stats available and accessible by us all for free



Everyone that has a computer. :lol:

A quick google search comes up with an article from 2011 talking about this stat, specifically for the EPL. Ozil came in 2013.

And I'm not exactly against your Ozil argument, whatever that may be, I'm just against any bad argument, which this one seemed to be. Cheers!
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:27 pm

Ozil is a quality player, who doesn't seem to want to be at the club and is woefully underperforming. Attitude + being asked to play a role he doesn't like.
There's no need to keep him at the club, but shifting him is going to be impossible. He's here for 2 more years.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:47 pm

jayramfootball wrote:Ozil is a quality player, who doesn't seem to want to be at the club and is woefully underperforming. Attitude + being asked to play a role he doesn't like.
There's no need to keep him at the club, but shifting him is going to be impossible. He's here for 2 more years.



Agreed! So knowing that we're pretty much stuck with him. What do we do with him? Bench him? If not, where does he play? Does Emery try to change the way he wants to play to better suit Ozil?

At this point I don't know what to expect from Ozil. Who knows where his head is at right now. Who knows if he'll be able to find any sort of form we know he's capable of. He's coming off of a horrible year. So there is always a concern for any player coming off a bad season, not really knowing if he's passed it, or if it was just a bad season. I don't pretend to know what his relationship is with Emery, cause you never get a straight answer really, but it doesn't feel like it's the best relationship in the world. So are we in store for another sulking season of inconsistency and mediocre play? Should Emery be the bigger person here and create a team that Ozil will like to play in, or even centered around him? IDK. So many questions going into this season, and seems like even more than before.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:06 pm

Ozils biggest gift to the club would be to leave and free up £18m, which is 40% of our transfer budget.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:09 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Losmeister wrote:glad the chances created got used again.

pass to xhaka, he blooters 15 yds over from 25 yds...chance created.

The same stat is applied to EVERY player in the world, but but but because it is Ozil and Ozil leads it, the stat is somehow invalid :lol:


We've had this debate before but I have never heard anyone bring that particular stat up until we signed Ozil. In fact, to this day nobody looks at that stat for any other player unless it's Ozil.

And before we signed Ozil how many of us had access to stats ? Timed have changed, there are far more stats available and accessible by us all for free


The internet's not new. But let's assume it was hard to find this stat, to this day, I have only seen fans of Ozil use the chance creation stat when discussing Ozil. I'd argue that it's only valued and used by Ozil fans because he has high numbers. I haven't seen it used when discussing Ramsey, Iwobi, Lacazette, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez before he left....i haven't seen anyone mention it when talking about players we're linked with for a summer signings. Ryan Fraser topped the Prem big chance creation table this season but it goes unnoticed and I'm sure some are sceptical of all him being a good signing despite putting a lot of stock in the stat when it concerns Ozil.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:15 pm

You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:20 pm

From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Angelito » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:56 pm

aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.


2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:19 pm

Angelito wrote:
aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".

That's a vanity metric you resort to when the player in question hasnt hit double figures in league assists in 5 out of 6 seasons and outearns everyone in the PL except Alexis Sanchez.


2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?


Impressive. Shame 65% of those were for teams not called Arsenal.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:21 pm

Well I tried to move this topic on to a new argument or discussion for Ozil, but here we go again. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:24 pm

StLGooner wrote:From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.


If you watch the games where it says Ozil created some chances, you'd see what's counted. I have a hard time recalling games where Ozil has laid chances on a plate for players but they have fluffed the chance. I've watched games where he's been anonymous yet seen the stats after the game where it says he created 3 chances.
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