The Wizard of Özil

Post any questions you have relating to the history of Arsenal—or read all about your beloved club.

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby LMAO » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:32 am

EliteKiller wrote:Are you saying Mourinho didn't want to see the back off him? Nice picture but are you seriously comparing Ozil to Rui Costa? That just won't end well ... Ozil is barely fit to lace his boots indeed very few are, take any measurement you want and Ozil doesn't even come close. The goal against England in 2004 Ozil could never do that ... but even more than the numbers it's what fellow great players say about him ... to a man players line up to say Rui had an unbelievable talent, an unbelievable touch, unbelievable vision, and an unbelievable work-rate

Has anyone ever said that last one about Ozil ... especially over the last two years

Every manager from Toni, Ranieri, Malesani, Trapattoni, Ancelotti to International level have nothing but the highest praise, can Ozil claim the same? ... that's all about the attitude

As good as Costa was by the time he reached 30 he only played about 60% of Milan's matches, he was trusted for the big games and rested for the rest (the exact opposite of Ozil) he was instrumental in Milan's 2002/3 CL victory playing 18 games and leading the tournament in assists, can Ozil claim to have done the same for any of his clubs?

Whilst I would agree that Rui was as enigmatic as Ozil, playing his own game regardless of the system, he was just so, so, so much better that to make a comparison with Ozil is almost unfair

Costa - Zidane - Platini >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ozil


Yes, I am saying Mourinho loved Ozil. It's why Ozil had 157 appearances (129 starts) at Madrid under him in three seasons. Not to mention, Ozil benched Kaka, which tells me all I need to know about Ozil and how Mou felt about him.

"Ozil is barely fit to lace his boots indeed very few are, take any measurement you want and Ozil doesn't even come close."
Re bolded part: That's why I added the pic of Costa because you originally wrote, "A final third player needs to score goals - Ozil 519 games just 86 goals - so if he's a final third player that he's a massive fail." Weeeellllll, Ozil has 86 goals in 519 appearances (0.17 goals/appearance) for club and 23 goals in 92 appearances for country (0.25 goals/appearance), whereas Costa had 97 goals in 684 appearances (0.14 goals/appearance) for club and 26 goals in 94 appearances (0.28 goals/appearance) for country. So since you're judging Ozil as a final third player—and since you claim a final third player needs to score goals or else is a massive failure—what's that make Rui Costa since Ozil has a superior goals/appearance ratio for club and overall career?
User avatar
LMAO
Member of the Year 2019
Member of the Year 2019
 
Posts: 9978
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:52 am

Marsbar100 wrote:Your right ozil is a very effective short passer in and around the box, he doesn't have near the range or overall quality of a be bruyne or cesc.

Stupid comment. Both KDB and Cesc are more deep lying playmakers than Ozil. You have no Idea what you are talking about. He doesn't play 50yd passes, thats not his game.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:54 am

Marsbar100 wrote:He is a million miles away from De Bruyne watching that video lol

The Ozil video is a video of chances he created for Arsenal teammates who missed those chances. There are dozens of videos showcasing Ozil's skills and assists for Arsenal. I shouldn't have to point that out.

The hate is very real, it had blinded you so now you cannot even see what is right in front of you, such is the hatred.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:59 am

EliteKiller wrote:
swipe right wrote:Ozil and Cesc play in different parts of the pitch. Ozil is a final third player. His game is best in the pockets or space that defenders leave unoccupied. It’s wonderful to watch him find opportunities and exploit them with vision and short incisive passing.
Cesc was best in a deeper position where he could play long passes and pick runners against the oppositions run of play. Cesc played as an American quarterback. A player who received the ball and picked a runner.
The problem fo both is if they are to succeed they need to make themselves available in space and that means not hunt down the ball. At their best they are game changers. At their worst they are baggage the team has to carry.


A final third player needs to score goals - Ozil 519 games just 86 goals - so if he's a final third player that he's a massive fail.

However hard you try and justify Ozil's inclusion in the "greatest player ever" he just doesn't have the all around game ... don't think anyone will argue that he can defend, equally don't think anyone will argue that he's a finisher ... so you're left with the role of creative midfield player and when you compare him to the very best now playing KdB, Modric, Kroos over the last eighteen months he doesn't even come close ... Add to that the fact that he's now he's the wrong side of thirty, and to believe his glory days will return is just pissing in the wind .....

There is a reason every manager from Slomka at Schalke, Schaaf at Bremen, Mourinho at Real and now Emery at Arsenal were all quite happy to see the back off him, good as he can be, he is not and has never been the complete player that a true world class midfielder needs to be. He's a luxury player very, very, very good at what he does, but when that's not working he's a total liability ... it just is what it is

Absolute tosh as usual.

Fact - during his time at Werder Bremen no player in Germany got more assists than Ozil.

Fact - during his time at Real no player in Spain got more assists than Ozil.

But but but the managers couldn't wait to get rid of him :rofll:

You talk more shit than a little bit fam.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:03 am

LMAO, that my friend was a stone cold murder!! You will have the Flying Squad round your house soon, "you are being charged with the murder of EK who you killed mercilessly on the Goonerworld forum with bomboclart facts"

They will use the word bomboclart, such was the level of the murderation.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:30 am

Can't believe the drivel you guys write ... Ozil being put in the same bracket as Rui Costa ... do you honestly believe that?

If no manager wanted Ozil out then why did he leave RM the 13 times winners of Europe's top trophy for our second tier EPL side who've never ever won it? Was that because the manager loved him?

Keep coming back to this thread for the sheer blind stupidity off the Wonger / Ozil fan boys ... when every single shred of actual evidence shows Ozil is nowhere near the player he ways five years ago, yet the same two or three still go on and on and on about what he did in 2009 in Germany, or what he did in 2011 in Spain ... who gives a f**k? He's been at Arsenal for 6 years and it's been steadily downhill the whole time ....

This is his 2018/9 Ozil's contribution - 4 goals and 2 assists in 1,378 minutes - that's the facts, all the rest is just long forgotten memories ... if you think that ranks him amongst Europe's best then you need to explain how you define best, because in reality his numbers are no longer even average
EliteKiller
Tony Adams
Tony Adams
 
Posts: 5652
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:46 am

theHotHead wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Your right ozil is a very effective short passer in and around the box, he doesn't have near the range or overall quality of a be bruyne or cesc.

Stupid comment. Both KDB and Cesc are more deep lying playmakers than Ozil. You have no Idea what you are talking about. He doesn't play 50yd passes, thats not his game.


De Bruyne isn't a deep laying playmaker. He's an attacking midfielder.

Cesc is deep laying playmaker but Wenger started using him as a number 10 and his goal tally shot up along with his assists.

Ozil and Cesc play in different parts of the pitch. Ozil is a final third player. His game is best in the pockets or space that defenders leave unoccupied. It’s wonderful to watch him find opportunities and exploit them with vision and short incisive passing.
Cesc was best in a deeper position where he could play long passes and pick runners against the oppositions run of play. Cesc played as an American quarterback. A player who received the ball and picked a runner.
The problem fo both is if they are to succeed they need to make themselves available in space and that means not hunt down the ball. At their best they are game changers. At their worst they are baggage the team has to carry.


I'm seeing some really weird arguments. As an attacking midfielder and when you have the license to roam around the pitch, you pick the spots where you can do the most damage. It's down to your own discretion and ability. When Cesc was being played as a 10 or when he finds himself on the edge of the box, that doesn't stop to pick the right pass and assist. Look at that pass to Schurrle.



It's not as if we're discussing Xhaka here. Someone that sits deep and only seems capable of playing a long ball. As an attacking midfielder you should have a range of passes and Ozil is more than capable of playing a long pass and he often drifts into wide positions or drops deep.

Don't get me started on the goal scoring record. If KDB and Cesc are deep laying and Ozil plays closer to the box, I don't get why he has such a poor goal scoring record in comparison. As said, when Cesc started playing closer to the box, he was scoring more goals.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Member of the Year 2022
Member of the Year 2022
 
Posts: 7930
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby Chris Sharma » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:12 am

If somebody starts to compare Rui Costa with the truly greats, we very clearly have evidence that they know zero about football.

About de Bruyne, yesterday was a perfect example what his game often is on off-days. Its nothing.
Chris Sharma
Michael Thomas
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:41 am

Chris Sharma wrote:If somebody starts to compare Rui Costa with the truly greats, we very clearly have evidence that they know zero about football.


What ??????????????? are you saying Rui Costa wasn't a truly great ... then Zidane perhaps the best ever midfielder, Ronaldo (who calls Costa his idol) and Brerra my favourite Italian football writer clearly know nothing about football because they all rate him in their top three No 10's off all time ... just maybe you aren't old enough or wise enough to recognize pure class, you don't know what you missed ....

https://youtu.be/kcTO5IMrPkc
EliteKiller
Tony Adams
Tony Adams
 
Posts: 5652
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby Chris Sharma » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:31 am

EliteKiller wrote:
Chris Sharma wrote:If somebody starts to compare Rui Costa with the truly greats, we very clearly have evidence that they know zero about football.


What ??????????????? are you saying Rui Costa wasn't a truly great ... then Zidane perhaps the best ever midfielder, Ronaldo (who calls Costa his idol) and Brerra my favourite Italian football writer clearly know nothing about football because they all rate him in their top three No 10's off all time ... just maybe you aren't old enough or wise enough to recognize pure class, you don't know what you missed ....

https://youtu.be/kcTO5IMrPkc


I have seen Rui Costa twice live in Portuguese shirt and multiple times on TV. He WAS a really good footballer and at his best outstanding. I loved his touch to the ball. But he was inconsistent and only 4 goals in his whole 5 years in Milan, if something is underwhelming, than that. Not in the same class as Figo or even Deco imho. Dont care what his fellow countryman says.

And btw the first World Cup I watched on TV was 1970 in Mexico.
Chris Sharma
Michael Thomas
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:35 am

Opinions are always subjective ... to me Costa was one of the last great natural talents ... I was in Mexico in '70 long time ago ... remember when Bonetti was announced for the Germany game played OK until that mistake ...
EliteKiller
Tony Adams
Tony Adams
 
Posts: 5652
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:01 pm

Power n Glory I would not class KDB as an attacking midfielder in the way Ozil and David Silva are. kDB often drops deep to pick up the ball, thats how he has vision of the pitch to play the long passes he plays. Yes he also advances up the pitch but to say he is an AM I think is wrong.

Lampard was a box to box midfielder, he didn't spend his time just on the attack, he scored lots of goals but that doesn't make him an AM. In fact I would actually say KDB is almost a hybrid of Lampard and Ozil, because he can play those delightful through balls, he scorers goals and he can ping the ball 50-60 yards.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:06 pm

EK you can argue all you want, but you know you are wrong. Ozil left Bremen because he was wanted by the most prestigious club in the world. Ozil was one of Mourinho's stalwarts who played him all the time, his number of appearances never dipped. Ozil chose to leave Real because they got a new manager in after Mourinho, nobody knows the reason but fact is Ozil set highest assist in the league.

You are really digging and clutching at straws here, you have nothing so you try to create a false narrative
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:11 pm

Regarding Rui Costa, he was world class, he was a top player. At a time when Serie A was the strongest league in the world Costa stood out at Fiorentina with Battigol Batistuta and then at AC Milan.

Definitely rated as one of the best players in the world, in my opinion along the likes of Hagi, Stoichkov etc
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:41 pm

theHotHead wrote:Power n Glory I would not class KDB as an attacking midfielder in the way Ozil and David Silva are. kDB often drops deep to pick up the ball, thats how he has vision of the pitch to play the long passes he plays. Yes he also advances up the pitch but to say he is an AM I think is wrong.

Lampard was a box to box midfielder, he didn't spend his time just on the attack, he scored lots of goals but that doesn't make him an AM. In fact I would actually say KDB is almost a hybrid of Lampard and Ozil, because he can play those delightful through balls, he scorers goals and he can ping the ball 50-60 yards.


An attacking midfielder is an attacking midfielder. It’s the same position, same criteria from the player and the same function but players have different styles and ways to unlock a defence. If you’re World Class, an intelligent reader of the game, you find a way. Some choose to drop deeper because that’s where the space is on the pitch, Ozil chooses to drift wide, because that’s where he finds space. If Wenger had De Bruyne in the team instead of Ozil, he’d have played in the same number 10 position if not playing him out wide.

Look at Ozil’s heat map vs Leicester City this season when played as the 10. Compare his passing positions and heat map to KDB.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/12848 ... -Leicester

De Bruyne’s last night.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/13433 ... ester-City

Ozil doesn’t just park himself in the final third. He drops deep, he drifts wide.

Again, they’re both attacking midfielders but they have a different approach. It’s like comparing Lacazette and Auabmeyang and saying Laca isn’t a striker because he drops deep.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Member of the Year 2022
Member of the Year 2022
 
Posts: 7930
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The History Of Arsenal Football Club

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests