The Wizard of Özil

[theHotHead]

When I'm not punching in from my mobile, I'll dig out more quotes but even with your above response, you dismiss the big chance creation stat and again show that you don't understand the 'big chance creation' definition.

The part you highlight isn't talking about a close range pass. It's talking about a close range shot on goal or one on one scenario being creating from the pass. So either a through ball that splits a defence and puts the man one on one with the keeper or a pass that sets someone up for a close range shot. So that could be a cross that someone heads or taps in. No idea how you've misunderstood that one or why I have to explain it.

The fact that you have said again that you don't need to look at the big chance creation chart and dismiss it again makes me point. Dismissinh data in front of you in favour of something else that looks more favourable to Ozil.

Mate, lets look into "a close range shot on goal". Now, lots of Ozil's detractors talk about chances created where the player had quite a bit of work to do to score the goal or get a shot on goal. So its clear, for the player to have a close range shot on goal he MUST'VE also received the ball close to goal, otherwise everyone would argue that the passer didn't create a big chance at all, the player worked it to become a big chance himself.

I don't have any issue with the through ball leading to a one on one thats why I purposefully left it out. But I'm saying, for Ozil or anyone to create a legitimate big chance of the close range shot type, the player that receives the ball can't have a whole lot of work to do to fashion the chance, it stands to reason. It also stands to reason then that he must've received the ball close to goal and Ozil is usually not near the goal so is a probable reason he doesn't create many big chances -according to the definition of that metric. He does play through balls though.

[Sims]

i posted this before but its relevant again (tho was made before the new year so some stats mightve changed)

xA is the best measure for quality chance creation for obvious reasons (expected assists)

Özil's xA p/90:

14/15: 0.32
15/16: 0.52
16/17: 0.25
17/18: 0.38
18/19: 0.22

de Bruyne's:

15/16: 0.37
16/17: 0.49
17/18: 0.38
18/19: 0.21

Hazard's:

14/15: 0.3
15/16: 0.17
16/17: 0.19
17/18: 0.27
18/19: 0.44

Eriksen's:

14/15: 0.17
15/16: 0.3
16/17: 0.33
17/18: 0.33
18/19: 0.27

David Silva's:

14/15: 0.35
15/16: 0.23
16/17: 0.26
17/18: 0.33
18/19: 0.45

[theHotHead]

Yet another stat where Ozil's figures stand up to the best in the league.

[Marsbar100]

All them players do a lot more, some play deeper, easy to leave out context.

He was a very good player don't need any stats to verify that, he has been shit since he signed a new contract and needs to go what more is there to say.

[Power n Glory]

When I'm not punching in from my mobile, I'll dig out more quotes but even with your above response, you dismiss the big chance creation stat and again show that you don't understand the 'big chance creation' definition.

The part you highlight isn't talking about a close range pass. It's talking about a close range shot on goal or one on one scenario being creating from the pass. So either a through ball that splits a defence and puts the man one on one with the keeper or a pass that sets someone up for a close range shot. So that could be a cross that someone heads or taps in. No idea how you've misunderstood that one or why I have to explain it.

The fact that you have said again that you don't need to look at the big chance creation chart and dismiss it again makes me point. Dismissinh data in front of you in favour of something else that looks more favourable to Ozil.

Mate, lets look into "a close range shot on goal". Now, lots of Ozil's detractors talk about chances created where the player had quite a bit of work to do to score the goal or get a shot on goal. So its clear, for the player to have a close range shot on goal he MUST'VE also received the ball close to goal, otherwise everyone would argue that the passer didn't create a big chance at all, the player worked it to become a big chance himself.

I don't have any issue with the through ball leading to a one on one thats why I purposefully left it out. But I'm saying, for Ozil or anyone to create a legitimate big chance of the close range shot type, the player that receives the ball can't have a whole lot of work to do to fashion the chance, it stands to reason. It also stands to reason then that he must've received the ball close to goal and Ozil is usually not near the goal so is a probable reason he doesn't create many big chances -according to the definition of that metric. He does play through balls though.

You're over thinking and making it more complex than it is. Look at the below video from De Bruyne



These are big chances. Crosses that lead to close range headers or shots. Passes that lead to shots inside the box and not passes that lead to shots far outside of the box.

Look at your Ozil compilation video. Ozil plays a lot closer to goal than De Bruyne. He doesn't sit deep.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYgwm_AOjuU&t=108s [/youtube]

Also, personally, I think Ozil tends to play the ball to feet too much. I look at some of the passes and the ball is slightly behind the player so they're having to take an extra touch to get it out from under them or it takes them slightly away from goal. That's an observation. I always remember what Theo said about Cesc and that he'd play the perfect pass where you don't even have to break stride to finish it. Perfect timing, weight and on the players strong shooting foot. I always pay attention to that sort of thing.

Also, in your video, in your Ozil video, 1:34 mark where Ramsey shoots is what I wouldn't call a big chance. If Rambo cracks that in that's a great striker and not really about the pass and vision of Ozil.

Here is the Cesc video I've been watching.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sRebqUOWY8&t=66s[/youtube]

[Marsbar100]

Your right ozil is a very effective short passer in and around the box, he doesn't have near the range or overall quality of a be bruyne or cesc.

[Marsbar100]

He is a million miles away from De Bruyne watching that video lol

[Power n Glory]

He is a million miles away from De Bruyne watching that video lol

Deadly player. Watch the Cesc video. Mate.....

[EliteKiller]

We've debated the statistics over and over ... clearly nobody is changing their minds. The only thing that matters is what happens now and going forward. Emery is very obviously not an Ozil fan ... is that injury? sickness? form? attitude? only they know for sure.

However if Emery isn't going to use a player who will cost another 50m before he leaves for free then surely Ozil has to go, even if that means paying 20m to cancel his contract ... that's just good business.

If Emery is on his way out and Ozil is staying then expect more of the same hit and miss football we've had for the last five years ... taking the easy route would be a sure sign that Kroenke just wants to keep the money train ticking along, a fact we sadly all know is probably true.

[Marsbar100]

He is a million miles away from De Bruyne watching that video lol

Deadly player. Watch the Cesc video. Mate.....

It's a completly different level of a player to ozil, I like ozil but he is so overrated you would have thought he was the 2nd coming of bergkamps, he isn't near De bruyne or cesc let alone bergkamp.

[Power n Glory]

He is a million miles away from De Bruyne watching that video lol

Deadly player. Watch the Cesc video. Mate.....

It's a completly different level of a player to ozil, I like ozil but he is so overrated you would have thought he was the 2nd coming of bergkamps, he isn't near De bruyne or cesc let alone bergkamp.

I have to agree. Was just watching his compilation of assists and it's quite underwhelming.

[swipe right]

Ozil and Cesc play in different parts of the pitch. Ozil is a final third player. His game is best in the pockets or space that defenders leave unoccupied. It’s wonderful to watch him find opportunities and exploit them with vision and short incisive passing.
Cesc was best in a deeper position where he could play long passes and pick runners against the oppositions run of play. Cesc played as an American quarterback. A player who received the ball and picked a runner.
The problem fo both is if they are to succeed they need to make themselves available in space and that means not hunt down the ball. At their best they are game changers. At their worst they are baggage the team has to carry.

[EliteKiller]

Ozil and Cesc play in different parts of the pitch. Ozil is a final third player. His game is best in the pockets or space that defenders leave unoccupied. It’s wonderful to watch him find opportunities and exploit them with vision and short incisive passing.
Cesc was best in a deeper position where he could play long passes and pick runners against the oppositions run of play. Cesc played as an American quarterback. A player who received the ball and picked a runner.
The problem fo both is if they are to succeed they need to make themselves available in space and that means not hunt down the ball. At their best they are game changers. At their worst they are baggage the team has to carry.

A final third player needs to score goals - Ozil 519 games just 86 goals - so if he's a final third player that he's a massive fail.

However hard you try and justify Ozil's inclusion in the "greatest player ever" he just doesn't have the all around game ... don't think anyone will argue that he can defend, equally don't think anyone will argue that he's a finisher ... so you're left with the role of creative midfield player and when you compare him to the very best now playing KdB, Modric, Kroos over the last eighteen months he doesn't even come close ... Add to that the fact that he's now he's the wrong side of thirty, and to believe his glory days will return is just pissing in the wind .....

There is a reason every manager from Slomka at Schalke, Schaaf at Bremen, Mourinho at Real and now Emery at Arsenal were all quite happy to see the back off him, good as he can be, he is not and has never been the complete player that a true world class midfielder needs to be. He's a luxury player very, very, very good at what he does, but when that's not working he's a total liability ... it just is what it is

[LMAO]

Ozil and Cesc play in different parts of the pitch. Ozil is a final third player. His game is best in the pockets or space that defenders leave unoccupied. It’s wonderful to watch him find opportunities and exploit them with vision and short incisive passing.
Cesc was best in a deeper position where he could play long passes and pick runners against the oppositions run of play. Cesc played as an American quarterback. A player who received the ball and picked a runner.
The problem fo both is if they are to succeed they need to make themselves available in space and that means not hunt down the ball. At their best they are game changers. At their worst they are baggage the team has to carry.

A final third player needs to score goals - Ozil 519 games just 86 goals - so if he's a final third player that he's a massive fail.

However hard you try and justify Ozil's inclusion in the "greatest player ever" he just doesn't have the all around game ... don't think anyone will argue that he can defend, equally don't think anyone will argue that he's a finisher ... so you're left with the role of creative midfield player and when you compare him to the very best now playing KdB, Modric, Kroos over the last eighteen months he doesn't even come close ... Add to that the fact that he's now he's the wrong side of thirty, and to believe his glory days will return is just pissing in the wind .....

There is a reason every manager from Slomka at Schalke, Schaaf at Bremen, Mourinho at Real and now Emery at Arsenal were all quite happy to see the back off him, good as he can be, he is not and has never been the complete player that a true world class midfielder needs to be. He's a luxury player very, very, very good at what he does, but when that's not working he's a total liability ... it just is what it is

"Mourinho at Real"
Ozil left when Ancelotti was the head coach...

"A final third player needs to score goals - Ozil 519 games just 86 goals - so if he's a final third player that he's a massive fail."

[EliteKiller]

Are you saying Mourinho didn't want to see the back off him? Nice picture but are you seriously comparing Ozil to Rui Costa? That just won't end well ... Ozil is barely fit to lace his boots indeed very few are, take any measurement you want and Ozil doesn't even come close. The goal against England in 2004 Ozil could never do that ... but even more than the numbers it's what fellow great players say about him ... to a man players line up to say Rui had an unbelievable talent, an unbelievable touch, unbelievable vision, and an unbelievable work-rate

Has anyone ever said that last one about Ozil ... especially over the last two years

Every manager from Toni, Ranieri, Malesani, Trapattoni, Ancelotti to International level have nothing but the highest praise, can Ozil claim the same? ... that's all about the attitude

As good as Costa was by the time he reached 30 he only played about 60% of Milan's matches, he was trusted for the big games and rested for the rest (the exact opposite of Ozil) he was instrumental in Milan's 2002/3 CL victory playing 18 games and leading the tournament in assists, can Ozil claim to have done the same for any of his clubs?

Whilst I would agree that Rui was as enigmatic as Ozil, playing his own game regardless of the system, he was just so, so, so much better that to make a comparison with Ozil is almost unfair

Costa - Zidane - Platini >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ozil