Martin Ødegaard (8)

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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:15 am

Maiso wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Congrats, you just proved how much of a dufus you are.

You don't care about stats - because they are contrary to your opinion and don't align with them. But fooball is a stats-driven game now. I couldn't give a shit what you agree with or not, stats are stats and the stats I posted are facts that you cannot counter.

When Odegaard starts posting the numbers Ozil was for Arsenal come back and talk to me, until then .......... talk to the hand.

What a juvenile man baby. Always seems to get triggered and lashes out when he does not get his own way. Grow up. I keep hearing you going on about the 70’s or 80’s etc all the time, so it tells me that you are at least old enough to be grandad. Calling people juvenile names like you are a 16 year old on twitter is not a good look. Smh

One more time, you can keep throwing about one dimensional stats all you like. It aint gonna make “Your Boy” (Ozil) a better player for Arsenal than “My Boy” (Odegaard). Lol
I don’t know how much I have to keep hammering the objective reality in your head. Ozil being good in just one category of Stats is not enough. That’s why he was sold by Ancelotti straight away. Ozil had all these amazing Stats from Madrid but he was deemed not good enough even with all that. Isn’t it?

He was in his prime (24 years old). With all these cringeworthy accolades / catchphrases (Best No10 in the world. Assist King. Chances created King. He was World class. Sees Passes no other player can see. A Generational talent. blah blah). But even with all that overhype from his fans, Madrid still wanted him out. And with all those amazing stats you keep going on about, only we (poor old / weeping boys (Arsenal / Top 4 is like a trophy specialists) came in for him in 2013. City, Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Chelsea, etc didn’t even bother talk about him. What does that say?

Now if we were to make Odegaard available this summer. He is at the exact / same age “Your Boy” Ozil was in 2013 when Madrid got rid of him. Do you think the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Chelsea, United, City etc would ignore him?

Madrid got rid of him.
Arsenal forced him out / terminated his contract.
Germany forced him out.
Fenerbache got rid of him / terminated his contract.
Istanbul Basaksehir / Terminated his contract.

What more evidence does one need? :think: :biggrin:

Stop being a bloody snowflake - you snowflake !! If you think this is me lashing out you aint seen nothing yet. If you make stupid arguments its my job to seek and destroy.

If you think Odegaard can win in an Ozil vs Odegaard contest you must've banged your head while smoking the crack you must be smoking !!

Odegaard is 25 years old, let me tell you what Ozil had done by the age of 25 !!

- Won the German cup (Werder Bremen)
- Won La Liga (Real Madrid)
- Won the Spanish cup (Real Madrid)
- Voted in Bundesliga team of the season (Kicker magazine)
- Voted attacking midfieler of the season (Kicker magazine)
- Voted German Player of the Year in 2011, 2012 and 2013
- Voted in the UEFA Team of the Year in 2012 and 2013

Now lets lok at Odegaard's list of honours aged 25:

- Won the Spanish Cup (Real Sociedad)
- Vitesse Player of the year
- Arsenal player of the season
- London Football Awards Player of the Season
- PFA Team of the year

Meanwhile, by age 25 Ozil had 190 goals and assists (taking in all comps for Schalke senior side, Werder Bremen, Real Madrid and up to his birthday 25th birthday on 15th October 2013.

Odegaard has 116 goals and assists for the senior sides he has played for so far.

We judge offensive players by the goals they score and create, anything else is just fluff, its just noise !!! You can ignore the facts - read stats - as much as you want. Odegaard isn't fit to lace prime Ozil's laces let alone be compared to him.
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:20 am

Maiso wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Welbeck was better than Giroud and Adebayor because he ran back and defended and won the ball more :rofll:

Lets ignore the goals they scored, they are just meaningless stats, offensive players are supposed to defend, thats whats important LOL. Anyway, stats are lies.

For real. Do you ever not use fallacious reasoning? The amount of strawman arguments you engage in just amuse me all the time.
Always jumping allover the place with new, different and irrelevant arguments I have never made.

Now here you are with yet another fallacious (Strawman argument) that I have not made. About me thinking Welbeck is better than Giroud and Adebayor because he ran back, defended and won the ball back?”.

Stop trying to whitewash my main argument. I will try again for what feels like the 100th time explaining my contention about Ozil vs Odegaard. Here we go: I created my own template for what I rate in a Attacking midfielder:
1) They should be able to dominate / control the opposition final third.
2) Should be able to create (Assists).
3) Should be a a Goal threat.
4) Should be a fighter (Have a bit of grit, track back when needed, defend from the front, be able to press from the front and also help out defensively if possible).
That’s the modern No10 or attacking midfielder.

Now show me where I said that I think Odegaard is better than “Your Boy” Ozil because he just runs back, defends and wins the back hence the reason why I rate him higher. So you just pick one attribute out of the four that I mentioned and then try to strawman my whole argument. How dishonest. Lol smh

You tried to strawman my argument again before a few comments back too. Where you tried to insinuate that today’s teams, managers and Players are just no technique types, just physically built runners etc.. Then I asked you if you serious think that the current Pep (City team), Klopp’s Liverpool and this current Arteta’s Arsenal etc are just runners with no natural talents? And more specifically Odegaard. So you wanted to tell me that the Odegaard we saw from last season and this season is just a runner?

And I am not dismissing or ignoring your one dimensional stats obsession. What I keep trying to tell you is that you are too obsessed with throwing about those Ozil stats even if evidence keep showing that they are not enough. Attacking midfielder in the these current times need more than what you are obsessing about. That’s why even with all those amazing Stats you keep parroting they did not seem enough to save Ozil’s Madrid future, hence why he was gotten rid of in 2013. And those Stats of your weren’t very appealing to the likes of Barcelona, Bayern, City, Man United, Chelsea etc, hence non of them ever came in for that 24 year old so called World class Ozil at his peak. Only my beloved “4th place / Top 4 is like a trophy” aspirants (Arsenal) saved his blushes. But according to you Ozil was World class and could have walked in any team back then. And all throughout his time at Arsenal non of the other teams ever tried to even entice him. Ran down his contract in 2017 and still just crickets from the big teams. At least Ramsey, Sanchez etc attracted some serious clubs. But the Stats King (Your Boy Ozil) never did. But instead Arsenal were desperate to terminate his contract later. If you can get out of the Ozil bubble and tried to look at things a bit more objective without your Ozil tinted glass, then maybe you would understand why Your Boy ended seemed to end up being forced out? (Madrid, Germany, Arsenal, Fenerbache, Istanbul Basaksehir's etc)? Why is that? It surely you can’t assure me that all of them did not have have the ability to read and interpret the relevant Stats like you seem to. Right?

If you rate an inferior offensive player when it comes to creating and scoring goals (which is their primary job) higher than another player because he runs more and tracks back/defends then I am well within my right to make the Welbeck/Giroud/Adebayor comment that I made.

Its like putting your hand in a bucket labelled hot water and then complaining that the water is hot !!
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:26 am

Maiso wrote:@hothead.
And about Giroud and Adebayor vs Welbeck.
I have always rated Giroud and Adebayor highly. Why? Because those guys weren’t just goal scorers, they were team players that did more than standing / waiting in the opposition area. And It was your fellow Ozil apologists that used to blame Giroud for Your Boy’s constant poor showings. You know, labelling him as a Donkey, a Lamppost, an average mid table / Championship level player that was making our Prince Ozil look poor, weak and bad. Remember those types of excuses of Scapegoating Giroud and other players for Ozil consistently being exposed as a one dimensional player in the EPL? So don’t even try, I was always defending Giroud from your type (the Ozil worshippers).

I am convinced you are not an Arsenal fan !!! I am convinced you never watched Arsenal play.

Adebayor was lazy, he was offside more than Bendtner and thats saying something !! As for being a team player, how ? Adebayor's link up play was terrible. Giroud was static which was everyone's complaint about him and do I need to remind you of the 801 mins he went without scoring a goal for Arsenal ? He went 15 appearances in the 2015/16 season without scoring a goal for Arsenal .... but but but ... Ozil apologists :rofll:
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:36 am

Maiso wrote:@Hothead.
About Mustafi having stats that showed him as one of the best CB’s in our team and in the EPL.
I don’t know how to upload pictures on here and don’t know if most outside Links are allowed on here.
But for example type into google “Mustafi better than Van Dijk 2018”.
And just search, “Mustafi stats, best Arsenal CB”.

You will see all these out of context Stats that show him doing better than Van Dijk and also Stats that showed us being better defensively when he played in different seasons. Again, just pulling and throwing about out of context stats can be used to make whatever point anyone wants.

It was Jayram that said that not me.

I'm living in your head rent free it seems :lol:
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby Maiso » Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:28 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Maiso wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Congrats, you just proved how much of a dufus you are.

Stop being a bloody snowflake - you snowflake !! If you think this is me lashing out you aint seen nothing yet. If you make stupid arguments its my job to seek and destroy.

If you think Odegaard can win in an Ozil vs Odegaard contest you must've banged your head while smoking the crack you must be smoking !!

Odegaard is 25 years old, let me tell you what Ozil had done by the age of 25 !!

- Won the German cup (Werder Bremen)
- Won La Liga (Real Madrid)
- Won the Spanish cup (Real Madrid)
- Voted in Bundesliga team of the season (Kicker magazine)
- Voted attacking midfieler of the season (Kicker magazine)
- Voted German Player of the Year in 2011, 2012 and 2013
- Voted in the UEFA Team of the Year in 2012 and 2013

Now lets lok at Odegaard's list of honours aged 25:

- Won the Spanish Cup (Real Sociedad)
- Vitesse Player of the year
- Arsenal player of the season
- London Football Awards Player of the Season
- PFA Team of the year

Meanwhile, by age 25 Ozil had 190 goals and assists (taking in all comps for Schalke senior side, Werder Bremen, Real Madrid and up to his birthday 25th birthday on 15th October 2013.

Odegaard has 116 goals and assists for the senior sides he has played for so far.

We judge offensive players by the goals they score and create, anything else is just fluff, its just noise !!! You can ignore the facts - read stats - as much as you want. Odegaard isn't fit to lace prime Ozil's laces let alone be compared to him.

I am not being a snowflake. I have carried myself in a mature / adult manner on here. I never want to engage in diversionary tactics / childish name calling like you seem to be so good at. I have noticed this attitude and mentality about you on here. You seem to be so self centred and very opinionated. Your opinion has to reign supreme and if someone exposes it you get triggered and start abusing, swearing and calling people names.

And isn’t being a snowflake meant to be reserved for us “millennials and Gen Z’s”? But you seem to be a snowflakey personality is funny even if you are from the 1960’s or 1970’s.. Anyways moving on. Smh

Again. I don’t care about what Ozil did in his previous lives before Arsenal. What he did or what Odegaard did before they moved to Arsenal is irrelevant to me. I only care about what he did at Arsenal as I am an Arsenal fan. I used to have this same argument regarding *Thomas Partey* after his second season here. Arsenal fans kept going on about his Atletico Madrid stats and style. But I kept telling them that I didn’t care about what Partey did at Atletico Madrid. All I cared about was him performing at Arsenal.

And the Ozil stats / accolades you keep parroting / touting make my point about your out of context obsession with Stats. They all look good but they never translated to him being very enticing to big clubs. Isn’t it? Hence why he was forced out everywhere he went since 2013.

You never seem to address my points. All you do is come up with more Ozil stats.
I will keep asking the same question until you address it. You have dodged it with your consistent red herring / fallacious logic, ad hominems and deflection tactics.. The question still remains, with all those amazing Stats “Your Boy” Ozil accumulated. Him being this generational world class talent that would have walked into any team from 2013. He was 24 years old and on at the top of his game. Right? Now how come Madrid and Ancelotti told him to look for another club as he was not part of their future plans? Then when that happened not a single serious club came in for him? City, Barcelona, Bayern, Chelsea, United etc). Only 4th place strugglers Arsenal saved his blushes. If your stats obsession was as relevant then why did Madrid get rid of him and other big clubs passed him on? Why was that?

And also during his time at Arsenal not a single one of those clubs ever tried to buy him? He ran down his contract and even that did not entice the big boys to come in for him. But but look at this and that stat. Smh

You did not address my comparison too. I will ask you again. If we were to put Odegaard on the Market in the summer, he is the exact same age Ozil was at the top of his game at Madrid (25 years old). Would there not be massive clubs fighting to sign him? It never happened for Ozil.

No more time. With all those stats that you think are amazing.
1) Why was Ozil gotten rid of by Madrid?
2) Arsenal forced him out /terminated his contract.
3) Germany forced him out.
4) Fenerbache forced him out / terminated his contract.
5) İstanbul Başakşehir terminated his contract too.

May be the particular Ozil Stats you are so entrenched in and so obsessive about are just not enough to get entice managers since 2013? Ozil was just a one dimensional player that failed to evolve with the game. So the game left him behind. Hence why he ended up being forced out everywhere he went since 2013. Isn’t it?
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby Maiso » Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:58 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Maiso wrote:[quote="theHotHead"

If you rate an inferior offensive player when it comes to creating and scoring goals (which is their primary job) higher than another player because he runs more and tracks back/defends then I am well within my right to make the Welbeck/Giroud/Adebayor comment that I made.

Its like putting your hand in a bucket labelled hot water and then complaining that the water is hot !!

OMG. I have tried to explain my reasoning by consistently writing these long replies. But you are so entrenched into your Ozil bubble that you just keep debating fallaciously even when it’s pointed out to you.

The evidence is on my side. The one dimensional / lazy players like Ozil were weeded out for a reason. Hence why the likes of Juan Mata, Ozil, James Rodriquez etc ended up washed up while still in their late 20’s and were replaced with a new breed of high intensity attackers such as “Iniesta, David Silva, Modric, Kroos, KDB, Santi, odegaard etc..”.

There is a reason why Ozil, Juan Mata, James Rodriquez etc became anticlimactic players even if they were very naturally talented. Why would I choose Ozil over the likes of David Silva, Odegaard, Modric, KDB, Santi, Fabregas etc? When those players offer more than what Ozil can offer overall? You can label Odegaard inferior but that’s your opinion and we are all entitled to our own opinions. Odegaard has captained us to two consecutive seasons of challenging for the title. Led us back onto the CL and into the CL quarter finals for the first time in 14 years. He has done that doing everything ozil could do and on top of that he is leading by example, controlling most of our games, he has been a fighter working hard all over the pitch. And still hitting similar numbers to your one dimensional favourite player (Ozil) that spent most of his time camped in the opposition half not doing anything else apart from passing the ball.

That’s why Ozil ended up being forced out from wherever he went until he accepted that his celebrity status and padded out of context stats couldn’t save him, so he retired. Isn’t it?
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby Maiso » Sat Mar 23, 2024 3:18 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Maiso wrote:@Hothead.
About Mustafi having stats that showed him as one of the best CB’s in our team and in the EPL.
I don’t know how to upload pictures on here and don’t know if most outside Links are allowed on here.
But for example type into google “Mustafi better than Van Dijk 2018”.
And just search, “Mustafi stats, best Arsenal CB”.

You will see all these out of context Stats that show him doing better than Van Dijk and also Stats that showed us being better defensively when he played in different seasons. Again, just pulling and throwing about out of context stats can be used to make whatever point anyone wants.

It was Jayram that said that not me.

I'm living in your head rent free it seems :lol:

My goodness. How old are you mate? This talk is like the typical teenager on twitter. Smh

And what are you talking about “Jayram” that said that to you? What?

I brought up Mustafi Stats because I was trying to make a point about your over obsessive nature with throwing around no context Ozil Stats. Hence why in a previous comment I said to you that anyone can find stats that can back their given argument. Hence why I mentioned “Mustafi” because I remember reading a few articles stating he had better numbers than Van Dijk in some instances. But no one was buying it. You then asked me to backup this Mustafi vs Van Dijk stats talk. So I said that I can post / cite links and Articles but not sure if they are allowed on this site. That’s the whole context.

So I don’t know how that’s “Me letting you live rent free in my head?” Seriously, how juvenile is that statement to start with. Wow. Smh
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:06 am

I have no interest in debating this with a dweeb.

Yes I called you a name, booo hoooo. You are boring and can't argue. I want to be juvenile with you because thats what you deserve. Don't like it, f**k off then!

Man tells me he doesn't pay attention to stats and wants to argue points easily provable - and have been proved - by stats. Gtfoh.
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:22 am

Maiso wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Maiso wrote:@Hothead.
About Mustafi having stats that showed him as one of the best CB’s in our team and in the EPL.
I don’t know how to upload pictures on here and don’t know if most outside Links are allowed on here.
But for example type into google “Mustafi better than Van Dijk 2018”.
And just search, “Mustafi stats, best Arsenal CB”.

You will see all these out of context Stats that show him doing better than Van Dijk and also Stats that showed us being better defensively when he played in different seasons. Again, just pulling and throwing about out of context stats can be used to make whatever point anyone wants.

It was Jayram that said that not me.

I'm living in your head rent free it seems :lol:

My goodness. How old are you mate? This talk is like the typical teenager on twitter. Smh

And what are you talking about “Jayram” that said that to you? What?

I brought up Mustafi Stats because I was trying to make a point about your over obsessive nature with throwing around no context Ozil Stats. Hence why in a previous comment I said to you that anyone can find stats that can back their given argument. Hence why I mentioned “Mustafi” because I remember reading a few articles stating he had better numbers than Van Dijk in some instances. But no one was buying it. You then asked me to backup this Mustafi vs Van Dijk stats talk. So I said that I can post / cite links and Articles but not sure if they are allowed on this site. That’s the whole context.

So I don’t know how that’s “Me letting you live rent free in my head?” Seriously, how juvenile is that statement to start with. Wow. Smh


Maiso - you have already said that you don't use stats at all and just watch the game.
That is fine, the game is about entertainment after all, but don't then pretend to be able to credibly judge players. Even the top football experts in the world don't just watch games to assess players.
You have to be watching and analysing players to get good informative comparisons.
There are no short cuts, no football 'gurus' that see all.

The problem stats can throw up is when they are used in the wrong way as sound bites by people who don't know what they are actually representing.
For example - a terrible defender can have some better stats than an elite defender - more tackles. more defensive headers, more duels won etc. Why? Because they play in a team that is not very good and are under constant attack. Similarly you can have a defender that just makes too many mistakes, like Mustafi, but outside of those can rack up decent numbers.

There really isn't an argument against the use of stats anymore in football - you get some old timers - even managers - griping about it from time to time, or some younger inexperienced people getting carried with their own view of how much of an expert they are, but football analysis is now about observation and confirmation through data, like all analysis really.

Again , not to say just watching the game is wrong in anyway, but suggesting that you can see all by watching a game for 90 minutes is a bit silly.
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:44 am

Its common sense Jay, you form an opinion based on what you see and the stats should be able to back it up. What we see with our eyes is Ozil being lazy, but what we see when you include stats are that, in fact, Ozil was in the top 10 or 15% of players at the club for distance covered in a match. Its like riding motorbikes, you get an upgrade installed and think it has made a difference because your "arse dyno" tells you the bike is faster, but when you get the bike dyno'd properly or you time yourself you see there is no change at all. You cannot ignore key stats.

And another thing and this is why I asked the question early on, what is it we are debating, who was the most effective player, who was the best all rounder, who created the most goals/assists ? Because if its based on the latter it's no damn competition, Ozil smokes everyone for creating goals and assists. Is he the best all rounder, no, he is more off a luxury player, works in some teams but not in all.

And Ozil did the numbers he did playing in a shit Arsenal team, that makes his numbers even more remarkable !
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:19 am

theHotHead wrote:Its common sense Jay, you form an opinion based on what you see and the stats should be able to back it up. What we see with our eyes is Ozil being lazy, but what we see when you include stats are that, in fact, Ozil was in the top 10 or 15% of players at the club for distance covered in a match. Its like riding motorbikes, you get an upgrade installed and think it has made a difference because your "arse dyno" tells you the bike is faster, but when you get the bike dyno'd properly or you time yourself you see there is no change at all. You cannot ignore key stats.

And another thing and this is why I asked the question early on, what is it we are debating, who was the most effective player, who was the best all rounder, who created the most goals/assists ? Because if its based on the latter it's no damn competition, Ozil smokes everyone for creating goals and assists. Is he the best all rounder, no, he is more off a luxury player, works in some teams but not in all.

And Ozil did the numbers he did playing in a shit Arsenal team, that makes his numbers even more remarkable !


Yes, things like 'laziness' are judged in moments that build up over time - instances when people see Ozil not tracking back. The trope builds up over time and is repeated again and again by the 'experts' on social media. It's rare that these tropes ever have any real credibility.

Ozil was never a player who could track back , read danger defensively or make tackles. Not his game at all, but he wasn't lazy. Far from it, he was very dynamic and constantly moving. He flourished in teams where he had the freedom to play going forward, but was never a player who was going to excel in a team who had less possession and set up defensively - which Arteta implemented when he first came in - or in the current team that demands both attacking and defensive output from every player on the pitch - even the goalkeeper.

I was totally against him being pushed out, but now it makes sense as we are seeing the vision Arteta had for the team.
Ozil wasn't the right fit, but lazy? Nah. Just a football trope - like 'Saka needs a rest' even though he plays less football than other top players.
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:45 am

I myself was guilty of using my eyes over stats when I claimed Saka was less effective this season. Then someone pulled up the stats and he is doing better this season than last !!

There is a reason Obi Wan told Luke to close his eyes because our eyes can deceive us LOL.
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby Maiso » Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:34 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Maiso wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We judge offensive players by the goals they score and create, anything else is just fluff, its just noise !!! You can ignore the facts - read stats - as much as you want. Odegaard isn't fit to lace prime Ozil's laces let alone be compared to him.

This is exactly why we differ. You seem be stuck in your dinosaur era. Football moved on from that attitude. That’s why Wenger struggled to progress. He stagnanted with his football philosophy while everyone else evolved. Hence why we had become a joke of a club in wengers later years. Hence why we were continually humiliated by other bug clubs. Spankings such as 6-3, 8-2, 6-1, losing by 5 goals against the likes of Liverpool, Bayern etc became expected of us. Why? Because wenger refused to evolve with the game. The players he assembled were very weak and one dimensional. Including your boy Ozil. The Later Wenger and Ozil epitomised the weakness of the old Arsenal I had gotten tired of. Weak and stagnant in their approach.

If today we only judge offensively players by their goals and creativity then how come Your boy Ozil became a joke? He had all those amazing stats you so care about, but again, how come they did not save his Madrid career. Did not save his Germany career. Did not save his Arsenal career. Did not save his Fenerbache career. Did not save his İstanbul Başakşehir career.

If what you are claiming is true, then Ozil with all those amazing offensive stats you keep parroting would be the great example. But it shows the opposite. He was exposed everywhere he ended up due to his one dimensional style. While guys like Modric, Odegaard, David Silva, KDB, Santi etc that are more complete and do more than just create / score goals are the heartbeats of their challenging teams.

Again, this is 2024 and not 1970 where you are stuck. Gotta move and evolve with the game. Like everything in this world it changes and we have to evolve with it. That’s why the likes of your Ozil, James Rodriquez, Juan Mata etc struggled with this evolution. Wenger too struggled hence why he was also forced out. Right?

And to show you that the game has evolved. Look at Goal Keepers today? They have got to be very good in goal but then be comfortable with the ball at their feet.

Look at CB’s too. Now top teams expect their CB’s to br good defenders and on top that be comfortable in possesion.

Same with Attacking Midfielders. They are expected to be good offensively but also have that fight and grit defensively when out of possession.

Even with Fullbacks. The old fashioned ones are being evolved into inverted Fullbacks. The good old ones that were just good at defending, running in straight lines and crossing the ball are being phased out. Kieran Tierney etc being replaced with the likes of Zincheckoc Kiwor, Timber, White, Tomiyasu etc.

Just look around: City, Liverpool, Arsenal and even United, they all seem to be following the same player evolution.

The evidence is absolutely not on your side with your claim offensive players are only judged on their goal scoring and creativity today. That might have been criteria back in the day but it clearly hasn’t been for the last 10 years or so. If any footballer (Keeper, Defender, Midfielder and and Attacker) wants to make it to the top teams today, they have got to be a bit more versatile. Hence why yout boy Ozil struggled and ended up being forced out from everywhere until he retired..

What more evidence do you need? You just seem to be stuck in your bubble of the good old days.. Move on, it’s 2024 and not the 1960, 70’s, 80’s or 90’s. Football has evolved and moved on.
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby theHotHead » Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:45 pm

Football has evolved but the pool of talented players has shrunk so much its no so much a pool - its more of a puddle.

Lets take a look t the last 2 UEFA tournaments, the players of the tournament, from the 2020 UEFA championships and the 2016 championships (11 player squads for some reason):

2020 UEFA Championships
Donnarumma, Kyle Walker, Bonnuci, Harry Maguire, Spinaszzola, Hojberg, Jorginho, Pedri, Chiesa, Lukaku, Sterling.

2016 UEFA Champinships:
Patricio, Kimmich, Pepe, Guerreiro, Kroos, Joe Allen, Griezmann, Aaron Ramsey, Payet, C Ronaldo

Lets compare to the players of the tournament in 2000 and 1996 (22 and 18 player squads):

2000 UEFA Championships
Toldo, Barthez, Thuram, Blanc, Desailly, Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini, Frank De Boer, Vieira, Zidane, Figo, Rui Costa, Edgar Davids, Albertini, Guardiola, Henry, Kluivert, Nuno Gomes, Rul, Totti, Savo Milosevic

1996 UEFA Championships
Seaman, Andreas Kopke, Radoslav Latal, Blanc, Desailly, Matthias Sammer, Maldini, Deschamps, McManaman, Gascoigne, Rui Costa, Karel Poborsky, Deiter Eilts, Shearer, Stoichkov, Suker, Djorkaeff, Pavel Kuka

Don't make me do the World Cup as well ! You are trying to tell me football/footballers now is better than it was 20 years ago ?!! :rofll: :rofll:
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Re: Martin Ødegaard (8)

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:54 pm

theHotHead wrote:Football has evolved but the pool of talented players has shrunk so much its no so much a pool - its more of a puddle.

Lets take a look t the last 2 UEFA tournaments, the players of the tournament, from the 2020 UEFA championships and the 2016 championships (11 player squads for some reason):

2020 UEFA Championships
Donnarumma, Kyle Walker, Bonnuci, Harry Maguire, Spinaszzola, Hojberg, Jorginho, Pedri, Chiesa, Lukaku, Sterling.

2016 UEFA Champinships:
Patricio, Kimmich, Pepe, Guerreiro, Kroos, Joe Allen, Griezmann, Aaron Ramsey, Payet, C Ronaldo

Lets compare to the players of the tournament in 2000 and 1996 (22 and 18 player squads):

2000 UEFA Championships
Toldo, Barthez, Thuram, Blanc, Desailly, Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini, Frank De Boer, Vieira, Zidane, Figo, Rui Costa, Edgar Davids, Albertini, Guardiola, Henry, Kluivert, Nuno Gomes, Rul, Totti, Savo Milosevic

1996 UEFA Championships
Seaman, Andreas Kopke, Radoslav Latal, Blanc, Desailly, Matthias Sammer, Maldini, Deschamps, McManaman, Gascoigne, Rui Costa, Karel Poborsky, Deiter Eilts, Shearer, Stoichkov, Suker, Djorkaeff, Pavel Kuka

Don't make me do the World Cup as well ! You are trying to tell me football/footballers now is better than it was 20 years ago ?!! :rofll: :rofll:


Different times.
It's not possible for footballers to do the things they did 20 yrs ago - they simply don't have the time and are playing against teams drilled to a level far beyond 20yrs ago.
The 1970 Brazil team wouldn't get anywhere near winning a World Cup these days.

It's not really about better or worse - more about football evolving into something less entertaining and more tactical.
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