What's with the adulation of George Graham?

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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby Tony Adams » Sun May 17, 2020 4:14 pm

At the time I told myself it was rife in the game and he was just unlucky to get caught.

Wasn't it John Jensen that the bung was for? Always thought it funny that he had to be paid to sign him.

Could we chuck someone a bung to take Mustafi?
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby VCC » Sun May 17, 2020 7:36 pm

theHotHead wrote:I suppose for most of us it is a different sort of adulation for Graham. Graham came in and challenged the dominance of Everton and Liverpool, made us tough as nails and hard to beat and won shitloads in a short time. Yes he went stale, yes he went to Spurs but at no time during his time at Spurs did I think they were a threat - and so it didn't taint Graham to me.

Wenger came in and challenged the dominance of Man U, he gave us some of the best football ever seen in the Premier League era, we were absolutely in a Wenger Wonderland. But he refused to adapt with the times and we could all see it when we struggled to beat physically strong teams. When Mourinho came along he managed to allay physical strength with great defensive displays and the pick of great attacking strength, Wenger was schooled time and time again by Mourinho. Then came the fall and at the start many of us thought Wenger would prevail, but it became clear that he would not, the club's quality fell season after season and Wenger outstayed his welcome. It is this that, to me, tarnished Wenger's legacy, I ended up hating him, I never hated Graham though which is why I have a slight preference to the George Graham era than I do the Arsene Wenger era.

Good post
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby VCC » Sun May 17, 2020 7:38 pm

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I suppose for most of us it is a different sort of adulation for Graham. Graham came in and challenged the dominance of Everton and Liverpool, made us tough as nails and hard to beat and won shitloads in a short time. Yes he went stale, yes he went to Spurs but at no time during his time at Spurs did I think they were a threat - and so it didn't taint Graham to me.

Wenger came in and challenged the dominance of Man U, he gave us some of the best football ever seen in the Premier League era, we were absolutely in a Wenger Wonderland. But he refused to adapt with the times and we could all see it when we struggled to beat physically strong teams. When Mourinho came along he managed to allay physical strength with great defensive displays and the pick of great attacking strength, Wenger was schooled time and time again by Mourinho. Then came the fall and at the start many of us thought Wenger would prevail, but it became clear that he would not, the club's quality fell season after season and Wenger outstayed his welcome. It is this that, to me, tarnished Wenger's legacy, I ended up hating him, I never hated Graham though which is why I have a slight preference to the George Graham era than I do the Arsene Wenger era.

You do know why Graham had to leave Arsenal, right? And that’s alright with you?

Every man and even his dog was doing exactly what GG was, difference was GG got caught
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby swipe right » Sun May 17, 2020 11:52 pm

VCC wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I suppose for most of us it is a different sort of adulation for Graham. Graham came in and challenged the dominance of Everton and Liverpool, made us tough as nails and hard to beat and won shitloads in a short time. Yes he went stale, yes he went to Spurs but at no time during his time at Spurs did I think they were a threat - and so it didn't taint Graham to me.

Wenger came in and challenged the dominance of Man U, he gave us some of the best football ever seen in the Premier League era, we were absolutely in a Wenger Wonderland. But he refused to adapt with the times and we could all see it when we struggled to beat physically strong teams. When Mourinho came along he managed to allay physical strength with great defensive displays and the pick of great attacking strength, Wenger was schooled time and time again by Mourinho. Then came the fall and at the start many of us thought Wenger would prevail, but it became clear that he would not, the club's quality fell season after season and Wenger outstayed his welcome. It is this that, to me, tarnished Wenger's legacy, I ended up hating him, I never hated Graham though which is why I have a slight preference to the George Graham era than I do the Arsene Wenger era.

You do know why Graham had to leave Arsenal, right? And that’s alright with you?

Every man and even his dog was doing exactly what GG was, difference was GG got caught

Ah, so it’s alright then.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby VCC » Mon May 18, 2020 12:33 am

swipe right wrote:
VCC wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I suppose for most of us it is a different sort of adulation for Graham. Graham came in and challenged the dominance of Everton and Liverpool, made us tough as nails and hard to beat and won shitloads in a short time. Yes he went stale, yes he went to Spurs but at no time during his time at Spurs did I think they were a threat - and so it didn't taint Graham to me.

Wenger came in and challenged the dominance of Man U, he gave us some of the best football ever seen in the Premier League era, we were absolutely in a Wenger Wonderland. But he refused to adapt with the times and we could all see it when we struggled to beat physically strong teams. When Mourinho came along he managed to allay physical strength with great defensive displays and the pick of great attacking strength, Wenger was schooled time and time again by Mourinho. Then came the fall and at the start many of us thought Wenger would prevail, but it became clear that he would not, the club's quality fell season after season and Wenger outstayed his welcome. It is this that, to me, tarnished Wenger's legacy, I ended up hating him, I never hated Graham though which is why I have a slight preference to the George Graham era than I do the Arsene Wenger era.

You do know why Graham had to leave Arsenal, right? And that’s alright with you?

Every man and even his dog was doing exactly what GG was, difference was GG got caught

Ah, so it’s alright then.

That was how bussiness was done,
If you are naive enough to think deals are done all the way the rules say good for you, then there is reality of the money bussiness football is, look at Redknapp dog, look at Fifa look at UEFA try and be a realist bungs are the norm GG got caught and as with all who get caught he got burnt
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby swipe right » Mon May 18, 2020 9:46 am

VCC wrote:
swipe right wrote:
VCC wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I suppose for most of us it is a different sort of adulation for Graham. Graham came in and challenged the dominance of Everton and Liverpool, made us tough as nails and hard to beat and won shitloads in a short time. Yes he went stale, yes he went to Spurs but at no time during his time at Spurs did I think they were a threat - and so it didn't taint Graham to me.

Wenger came in and challenged the dominance of Man U, he gave us some of the best football ever seen in the Premier League era, we were absolutely in a Wenger Wonderland. But he refused to adapt with the times and we could all see it when we struggled to beat physically strong teams. When Mourinho came along he managed to allay physical strength with great defensive displays and the pick of great attacking strength, Wenger was schooled time and time again by Mourinho. Then came the fall and at the start many of us thought Wenger would prevail, but it became clear that he would not, the club's quality fell season after season and Wenger outstayed his welcome. It is this that, to me, tarnished Wenger's legacy, I ended up hating him, I never hated Graham though which is why I have a slight preference to the George Graham era than I do the Arsene Wenger era.

You do know why Graham had to leave Arsenal, right? And that’s alright with you?

Every man and even his dog was doing exactly what GG was, difference was GG got caught

Ah, so it’s alright then.

That was how bussiness was done,
If you are naive enough to think deals are done all the way the rules say good for you, then there is reality of the money bussiness football is, look at Redknapp dog, look at Fifa look at UEFA try and be a realist bungs are the norm GG got caught and as with all who get caught he got burnt

This is how third world countries justify corruption. Everybody’s doing it, I just got caught.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby Phil71 » Mon May 18, 2020 12:19 pm

The Graham era was fantastic. My best years supporting Arsenal.

It was during a time when our fans appreciated winning the League Cup, and winning the League was something extraordinarily special.

We had years of boring, stale football up to that point before he joined in 86. Then followed a fantastic era for the club, during which I went to most games home & away. Young players like Adams, Rocastle, Thomas and Quinn coming to the fore, and complimented by great additions such as Smith, Dixon, Winterburn, Bouid, Wright, Seaman...

Great, great times.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 18, 2020 4:23 pm

Phil, I think you have just given another reason why Graham's era was so special. 1988-89 league winning season, every player in the squad was English bar 2 players that were Irish. We could relate to every single player, they were one of us.

1990-91 season, every player bar 3 in the squad were English, there was an Irishman, a Swede and an Icelandic-man.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby Phil71 » Mon May 18, 2020 5:30 pm

theHotHead wrote:Phil, I think you have just given another reason why Graham's era was so special. 1988-89 league winning season, every player in the squad was English bar 2 players that were Irish. We could relate to every single player, they were one of us.

1990-91 season, every player bar 3 in the squad were English, there was an Irishman, a Swede and an Icelandic-man.


Yep. There was a great affinity with the players. It wasn't unusual to see players who weren't playing standing outside the marble halls signing autographs and talking to fans.

Ian Wright would hang out the window overlooking the North Bank turnstiles on Gillespie Road talking to fans.

I often stood in the bit of sunken terrace in front of the East Stand and we'd have a bit of banter with players from both teams as they were warming up. They'd have a laugh with you.

They were more in touch with fans.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby VCC » Mon May 18, 2020 7:13 pm

swipe right wrote:
VCC wrote:
swipe right wrote:
VCC wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I suppose for most of us it is a different sort of adulation for Graham. Graham came in and challenged the dominance of Everton and Liverpool, made us tough as nails and hard to beat and won shitloads in a short time. Yes he went stale, yes he went to Spurs but at no time during his time at Spurs did I think they were a threat - and so it didn't taint Graham to me.

Wenger came in and challenged the dominance of Man U, he gave us some of the best football ever seen in the Premier League era, we were absolutely in a Wenger Wonderland. But he refused to adapt with the times and we could all see it when we struggled to beat physically strong teams. When Mourinho came along he managed to allay physical strength with great defensive displays and the pick of great attacking strength, Wenger was schooled time and time again by Mourinho. Then came the fall and at the start many of us thought Wenger would prevail, but it became clear that he would not, the club's quality fell season after season and Wenger outstayed his welcome. It is this that, to me, tarnished Wenger's legacy, I ended up hating him, I never hated Graham though which is why I have a slight preference to the George Graham era than I do the Arsene Wenger era.

You do know why Graham had to leave Arsenal, right? And that’s alright with you?

Every man and even his dog was doing exactly what GG was, difference was GG got caught

Ah, so it’s alright then.

That was how bussiness was done,
If you are naive enough to think deals are done all the way the rules say good for you, then there is reality of the money bussiness football is, look at Redknapp dog, look at Fifa look at UEFA try and be a realist bungs are the norm GG got caught and as with all who get caught he got burnt

This is how third world countries justify corruption. Everybody’s doing it, I just got caught.

I am not applauding it just merely saying that is how it was and still is.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby VCC » Mon May 18, 2020 7:22 pm

Phil71 wrote:The Graham era was fantastic. My best years supporting Arsenal.

It was during a time when our fans appreciated winning the League Cup, and winning the League was something extraordinarily special.

We had years of boring, stale football up to that point before he joined in 86. Then followed a fantastic era for the club, during which I went to most games home & away. Young players like Adams, Rocastle, Thomas and Quinn coming to the fore, and complimented by great additions such as Smith, Dixon, Winterburn, Bouid, Wright, Seaman...

Great, great times.

Phil
In a way the GG era would be a worth while format to follow, if you look at how the club underperformed before GG and the players he dispatched eg Sansom, Rix, Nicholas and co Arsenal had become a comfortable slipper of a club with no expectation, pretty much the norm now some of our highest earners under performing and even putting the clubs moral into disrepute if you look at laca drug use it's time for the broom and give the kids a shot with one or two very professional old heads amongst the mix an o'Leary type
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby theHotHead » Tue May 19, 2020 11:02 am

I wouldn't be against that at all, a complete rebuild, but I don't want to see the likes of Nelson and Willock in there, they are not good enough, if we are going to rebuild with kids they need to be Saka and Martinelli level, if we have any chance of getting anywhere.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby jayramfootball » Wed May 20, 2020 10:10 am

Marsbar100 wrote:Kewon apparently coached the defense in that run


Yes, both Keown and Parlour were still at the club in the Invincibles season (as was Bergkamp - not a Graham signing but a pre Wenger player who had teh same mentality as the Graham team and slotted right in) and the players at the club who were not in the Graham area had a direct attachment to it. Players like Vieira had the benefit of playing alongside Graham's defence and really understood the club culture. As time drifted on and the link to the Graham era was a distant memory, Wenger's lack of defensive coaching knowledge really came through and hurt the club badly.
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby NovaGB » Wed May 20, 2020 12:39 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Kewon apparently coached the defense in that run


Yes, both Keown and Parlour were still at the club in the Invincibles season (as was Bergkamp - not a Graham signing but a pre Wenger player who had teh same mentality as the Graham team and slotted right in) and the players at the club who were not in the Graham area had a direct attachment to it. Players like Vieira had the benefit of playing alongside Graham's defence and really understood the club culture. As time drifted on and the link to the Graham era was a distant memory, Wenger's lack of defensive coaching knowledge really came through and hurt the club badly.


The invincibles defence was equally as good as Grahams defence, Lauren, Toure, Campbell, Cole, it just went to shit after that.

Grahams defence was great, but also had a couple of seasons where they were piss poor (the 10th place and 12th place seasons in the 90s)
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Re: What's with the adulation of George Graham?

Postby jayramfootball » Wed May 20, 2020 1:42 pm

NovaGB wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Kewon apparently coached the defense in that run


Yes, both Keown and Parlour were still at the club in the Invincibles season (as was Bergkamp - not a Graham signing but a pre Wenger player who had teh same mentality as the Graham team and slotted right in) and the players at the club who were not in the Graham area had a direct attachment to it. Players like Vieira had the benefit of playing alongside Graham's defence and really understood the club culture. As time drifted on and the link to the Graham era was a distant memory, Wenger's lack of defensive coaching knowledge really came through and hurt the club badly.


The invincibles defence was equally as good as Grahams defence, Lauren, Toure, Campbell, Cole, it just went to shit after that.

Grahams defence was great, but also had a couple of seasons where they were piss poor (the 10th place and 12th place seasons in the 90s)


Yes, they were still working with Keown and they had previously worked with Adams, Winterburn and Dixon - only Toure missed out on significant time with Graham's defence.

Additionally, defensive coaching is about more than the defensive four.
Petit and Vieira were great signings - we had some other after that, but they were all playing in front of Grahams defence and being marshalled by Tony Adams. Adams himself revealed that Wenger was told to stay away from the defence, which he did.

Only later when player like Adams, Winterburn, Dixon and Keown were memories did we collapse. Horrendous defensive signings by Wenger and a midget midfield who couldn't protect them. Need I mention players like Stepanovs, Cygan, Senderos, Djourou, Squillaci? Once the defence was Wengers alone he screwed it up royally, because he had no clue. It got so bad that fans started to see Kosciely as our best defender - and he was a complete clown.
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