Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Fran Solo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:34 am

Santi wrote:
KG3 wrote:Don’t even know where to start, this lineup we put today was obviously going to lose from the start. Xhaka does not work against high intensity sides, Willian cannot play as a CAM, you want to rest ESR that’s fine play a different formation without a CAM, having two goalkeepers on the bench but no Reiss Nelson.

He doesn’t help himself with his substitutions either, taking off Martinelli, moving Saka to left back after bringing him on when we need a goal so Nketiah who is awful can stay on the pitch.


Marinelli made sense with his recent injuries. Saka bit I agree with though given what we had up top.

Would've left Bellerin on and just taken Eddie or Willian off for Laca.


He put two goalkeepers in the sub. That is bad enough for me.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:04 am

starmandb wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Don't know if I can be arsed but I want to see the stats of games where Willian, Pepe and Nketiah have started and when Elneny and Xhaka have started.

When Willian and xhaka have started
We beat molde 4-1 home
2-1 loss at Everton
1-0 defeat at Southampton
When elneny and xhaka have started
1926 minutes
We have scored 45 goals and conceded 18
That’s a goal scored every 43 mins
1 conceded every 107 mins

Thanks Starmandb. I did do some delving in the end. What is clear is that the patterns I expected to find, I did not find, I only looked at league games because cup games miskew things, we play weakened teams quite often.

Xhaka has STARTED the most games (14 from 19 games), followed by Willian (13), from the group of players I selected, they are well clear of the rest. Elneny comes next (10), then ESR (5), then Pepe (4) then NKetiah (3).

My intial question was how did we get on in games where Pepe, Willian and Nketiah started? All 3 have only started one PL match and that was a loss to Everton.

My next question was how did we get on in games that Xhaka and Elneny started in, then the 2 players plus Willian? Nothing conclusive. 3 wins and 2 losses when we start Xhaka and Elneny, and with Willian it drops to 1 win and 2 losses.

How about games where Elneny, Xhaka and Pepe started ? That scenario has not come about so far this season. How about we single them out. Games that Willian started, 4 wins 7 losses 1 draw.
Games that Xhaka started, 6 wins 6 losses 2 draws.
Games that Elneny started, 5 wins 4 losses 1 draw.
Games that Pepe started, 2 losses 2 draws.

The only thing that stands out there are that we lose far more games when Willian starts than we win !!

The only other pattern that stands out are PL games where ESR starts, so far 5 starts, 4 wins and a draw. In those 5 games the only players in this list that stsarted those games also were Xhaka (all 5 games) and Elneny (2 of the games).
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:35 pm

Man U and Liverpool both fielding their strongest teams. Arteta needs a slap.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:10 pm

KG3 wrote:Don’t even know where to start, this lineup we put today was obviously going to lose from the start. Xhaka does not work against high intensity sides, Willian cannot play as a CAM, you want to rest ESR that’s fine play a different formation without a CAM, having two goalkeepers on the bench but no Reiss Nelson.

He doesn’t help himself with his substitutions either, taking off Martinelli, moving Saka to left back after bringing him on when we need a goal so Nketiah who is awful can stay on the pitch.


Thank god we just got Odegaard on loan.

No more Willian imposter performances as a CAM.

He really is one of the worst signings I can think of due to the money he's on, I preferred Kim Klastrom tbh.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:14 pm

:rofll:

gooney hasn't posted since January 11th and on his very first post back he's welcomed with a "F*ck off back to obscurity" lmao.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:09 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Not a fan of Emery, but how does he get the rubbish stamp and Arteta doesn’t? We finished 5th in Emery's first season. Arteta finished 8th and now we've dropped to 15th.

The football was bad under Emery but it has gotten worse under Arteta. The man management has been poor, transfer decisions poor....both managers had similar flaws. Under Emery, it may have been a language barrier but I can't say the same about Arteta.


As someone who didn't want Unai here and wanted Arteta over Ancelotti, my main gripe against Unai was four-fold:

- Risk-averse nature;
- Poor away form;
- Poor record against top managers/clubs;
- Inability to manage top players/poor management.

I never imagined Arteta would topple Emery in all these departments. He had nothing to lose. He joined at a time when even top-8 had become acceptable to fans as long as we played decent football. After the FA Cup win, he only needed to ensure we won a few, lost fewer, and he'd be set. Amongst Europe's top clubs, he was the one guy who didn't have any pressure. He was free to do as he wished as long as we were in the top-8.

What did he do instead?

He tried to be a combination of Pep and Mourinho. Even Pep, who is meticulous and a frantic micro manager, allowed ample space and room to his top players to express themselves (Messi, Henry, Eto'o, Iniesta, Muller, Lewandowski, Aguero, Silva, KdB). He had an initial falling out with Aguero, but he recognized Aguero's caliber as a player and status at Man City. This is someone who had a blank cheque ready for him.

Arteta, post-lockdown, threw Ozil away, couldn't handle Guendouzi, failed to include Torreira in his plans, refused to play Martinelli before his injury, failed to incorporate Saliba.

If he were smart, he'd have included Ozil in the squad, given him minutes here and there, which obviously wouldn't have worked in Ozil's favor. Fans would be blaming Ozil, not Arteta.

I can't imagine a manager who has had a longer leash than Arteta in modern football. Yet, he still managed to f**k it up. This is black comedy.

He has us playing a worse version of football than Emery. He talks about dominating every game. He throws players under the bus, but when it's his favorites, he serves a word salad.

Like, what the heck?

Whether people liked Wenger or not, he was Arsenal through and through. No style comes close to Wengerball at its best. He turned down Bayern, Barca, and Real for us. He didn't demand money from the board. He saw us through the transition years successfully. Yet, by 2016, he still wasn't good enough.

How can we settle for Arteta when we had a philosopher, a visionary, an ethical man guiding us for over two decades?

How could we settle for this abject state when most Gooners wanted Wenger gone even when we were a top-4 regular?

This is shameful.

The reason we wanted Wenger out was to take that leap to the next level. If we wanted 15th place, we might have as well never "sacked" him. He's far, far better than Unai or Arteta. But that wasn't good enough for a club as big as Arsenal.

Today, we have a manager who bullshits about dominating games; even Spurs and United fans sympathize with our state; this is pathetic.

Amidst all of this, we have people supporting Arteta. What the heck?

Arsenal board and fans want Arteta to succeed so bad. They think he's our Pep, our Zidane. They are desperate for him to succeed. I am, as well. But if he's not up for it, he isn't. No amount of hope and prayers will make him the next Pep.

It's a sad state.

There were no expectations, yet he's still fallen short.

Think about it. Ponder over it.

It can't be that Guendouzi, Ozil, Aubameyang, Bellerin, Saliba, Pepe, Lacazette, Torreira, etc., are all shit, whilst Arteta is the shining beacon of hope.

That cannot be.

Be rational, folks.


Yeah, the standards set have fallen off a cliff. For the fans to accept it and the Board to allow it, you just have to go back to asking why did we sack Wenger in the first place if this is acceptable. We've lost sight of the target and things have deteriorated quickly. Everything built over the last couple of decades wiped away because of a reckless gamble. I dont know why the Board are backing Arteta this way but it's the wrong choice. Offers of new contracts to Holding and Mustafi should let us know that there will be plenty of mistakes in the transfer window.

We all hoped Arteta would succeed when appointed but there are so many red flags. As I was saying to Rayyo, the big clubs that appointed former players as managers kept their standard and won't allow a new coach to drop them so far away from their expectations. Those coaches would have been expected to continue winning titles. Whilst we may be a long way from that, the expectation for Arteta would have been European football or it should have been. We're 4 points from the relegation zone.

We could even look at teams closer to the bottom. In his first job, didn’t Nagelsmann save Hoffenheim from relegation when taking over midway then finished in the top 4 the following season? If Arteta is as elite as some believe there has to be a dramatic turnaround after the January window. I dont see it happening but can only hope.


Lampard sacked. Chelsea won't allow standards to slip so far and not after spending so much money. I hope tye Arsenal board are paying attention.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:16 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Not a fan of Emery, but how does he get the rubbish stamp and Arteta doesn’t? We finished 5th in Emery's first season. Arteta finished 8th and now we've dropped to 15th.

The football was bad under Emery but it has gotten worse under Arteta. The man management has been poor, transfer decisions poor....both managers had similar flaws. Under Emery, it may have been a language barrier but I can't say the same about Arteta.


As someone who didn't want Unai here and wanted Arteta over Ancelotti, my main gripe against Unai was four-fold:

- Risk-averse nature;
- Poor away form;
- Poor record against top managers/clubs;
- Inability to manage top players/poor management.

I never imagined Arteta would topple Emery in all these departments. He had nothing to lose. He joined at a time when even top-8 had become acceptable to fans as long as we played decent football. After the FA Cup win, he only needed to ensure we won a few, lost fewer, and he'd be set. Amongst Europe's top clubs, he was the one guy who didn't have any pressure. He was free to do as he wished as long as we were in the top-8.

What did he do instead?

He tried to be a combination of Pep and Mourinho. Even Pep, who is meticulous and a frantic micro manager, allowed ample space and room to his top players to express themselves (Messi, Henry, Eto'o, Iniesta, Muller, Lewandowski, Aguero, Silva, KdB). He had an initial falling out with Aguero, but he recognized Aguero's caliber as a player and status at Man City. This is someone who had a blank cheque ready for him.

Arteta, post-lockdown, threw Ozil away, couldn't handle Guendouzi, failed to include Torreira in his plans, refused to play Martinelli before his injury, failed to incorporate Saliba.

If he were smart, he'd have included Ozil in the squad, given him minutes here and there, which obviously wouldn't have worked in Ozil's favor. Fans would be blaming Ozil, not Arteta.

I can't imagine a manager who has had a longer leash than Arteta in modern football. Yet, he still managed to f**k it up. This is black comedy.

He has us playing a worse version of football than Emery. He talks about dominating every game. He throws players under the bus, but when it's his favorites, he serves a word salad.

Like, what the heck?

Whether people liked Wenger or not, he was Arsenal through and through. No style comes close to Wengerball at its best. He turned down Bayern, Barca, and Real for us. He didn't demand money from the board. He saw us through the transition years successfully. Yet, by 2016, he still wasn't good enough.

How can we settle for Arteta when we had a philosopher, a visionary, an ethical man guiding us for over two decades?

How could we settle for this abject state when most Gooners wanted Wenger gone even when we were a top-4 regular?

This is shameful.

The reason we wanted Wenger out was to take that leap to the next level. If we wanted 15th place, we might have as well never "sacked" him. He's far, far better than Unai or Arteta. But that wasn't good enough for a club as big as Arsenal.

Today, we have a manager who bullshits about dominating games; even Spurs and United fans sympathize with our state; this is pathetic.

Amidst all of this, we have people supporting Arteta. What the heck?

Arsenal board and fans want Arteta to succeed so bad. They think he's our Pep, our Zidane. They are desperate for him to succeed. I am, as well. But if he's not up for it, he isn't. No amount of hope and prayers will make him the next Pep.

It's a sad state.

There were no expectations, yet he's still fallen short.

Think about it. Ponder over it.

It can't be that Guendouzi, Ozil, Aubameyang, Bellerin, Saliba, Pepe, Lacazette, Torreira, etc., are all shit, whilst Arteta is the shining beacon of hope.

That cannot be.

Be rational, folks.


Yeah, the standards set have fallen off a cliff. For the fans to accept it and the Board to allow it, you just have to go back to asking why did we sack Wenger in the first place if this is acceptable. We've lost sight of the target and things have deteriorated quickly. Everything built over the last couple of decades wiped away because of a reckless gamble. I dont know why the Board are backing Arteta this way but it's the wrong choice. Offers of new contracts to Holding and Mustafi should let us know that there will be plenty of mistakes in the transfer window.

We all hoped Arteta would succeed when appointed but there are so many red flags. As I was saying to Rayyo, the big clubs that appointed former players as managers kept their standard and won't allow a new coach to drop them so far away from their expectations. Those coaches would have been expected to continue winning titles. Whilst we may be a long way from that, the expectation for Arteta would have been European football or it should have been. We're 4 points from the relegation zone.

We could even look at teams closer to the bottom. In his first job, didn’t Nagelsmann save Hoffenheim from relegation when taking over midway then finished in the top 4 the following season? If Arteta is as elite as some believe there has to be a dramatic turnaround after the January window. I dont see it happening but can only hope.


Lampard sacked. Chelsea won't allow standards to slip so far and not after spending so much money. I hope tye Arsenal board are paying attention.


Chelsea are a whole other kettle of fish, they strive for success, our lot revel in being midtable and praise the manager for getting us there.

No ambition at this club at all, I wish we were more like Chelsea.

Have they asked Guardiola if it’s a big mistake sacking Lampard, I was wondering as he had a lot to say about sacking Arteta.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:34 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Lampard sacked. Chelsea won't allow standards to slip so far and not after spending so much money. I hope tye Arsenal board are paying attention.

Yup, tells you all you need to know about Arsenal and the Arsenal leadership team. Wotless !
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby aniym » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:48 pm

LOL we are not Chelsea. Abramovich and Marina are ruthless. They sacked club legend RDM 4 months after a CL-FA cup double. Lampard probably 2x the legend, still gets sacked.

Meanwhile, we are in 11th, while the club PR tries hard to put Arteta in the same legend turned manager company of OGS, Gerrard and Pirlo.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:27 pm

Chelsea not happy with a manager because performances and results aren’t up to scratch and they just sack him.

Arsenal watch the worst start and to a season in 40 years, together with terrible performances and sit on their hands and come out and praise the manager.

Someone has it wrong.

The good news is that if we go on a ridiculously long unbeaten run where we win all our games, we can still make top 4.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:32 pm

Özim wrote:Chelsea not happy with a manager because performances and results aren’t up to scratch and they just sack him.

Arsenal watch the worst start and to a season in 40 years, together with terrible performances and sit on their hands and come out and praise the manager.

Someone has it wrong.

The good news is that if we go on a ridiculously long unbeaten run where we win all our games, we can still make top 4.

It’s our best start in two years now
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:37 pm

Bottom half of the table, out of the cup. No chance of top 4 and no chance of beating benfica. Manager stays.

5 points off top 4, still in CL and the cup, manager sacked.

Which team would you rather be?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:37 pm

starmandb wrote:
Özim wrote:Chelsea not happy with a manager because performances and results aren’t up to scratch and they just sack him.

Arsenal watch the worst start and to a season in 40 years, together with terrible performances and sit on their hands and come out and praise the manager.

Someone has it wrong.

The good news is that if we go on a ridiculously long unbeaten run where we win all our games, we can still make top 4.

It’s our best start in two years now


Except we’re half way through the season and it’s not a start anymore, oh and we’re still 11th.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby aniym » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:44 pm

Özim wrote:The good news is that if we go on a ridiculously long unbeaten run where we win all our games, we can still make top 4.


Remember when we used to call 22 games unbeaten 'papering over the cracks'?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:13 pm

Özim wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Özim wrote:Chelsea not happy with a manager because performances and results aren’t up to scratch and they just sack him.

Arsenal watch the worst start and to a season in 40 years, together with terrible performances and sit on their hands and come out and praise the manager.

Someone has it wrong.

The good news is that if we go on a ridiculously long unbeaten run where we win all our games, we can still make top 4.

It’s our best start in two years now


Except we’re half way through the season and it’s not a start anymore, oh and we’re still 11th.

Yes it’s halfway through the season and it’s our most points in two years not our worst in 40
I am not happy with arteta
But I don’t feel the need to express it in every post
I trust the good people on this forum to recognise how people feel without the need to drone on about a point
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