Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:34 pm

Özim wrote:The recent results are obviously good, but there’s a fair amount of fortune in there, Arteta would never be playing the likes of ESR, Martinelli if not for the fact certain players were out, in the end these players had a huge impact on stopping they dreadful run.

I think the recent run is great but most have been fairly easy games, other than Chelsea who never got going in the game.

Will be interesting to see how we get on going forward, we beat Newcastle convincingly but Newcastle are in a terrible state after being affected by Coronavirus, they’re a side very low on confidence.

IMO the league is done and if Arteta has any sense he’s put more emphasis on winning the EL which offers a CL spot, there’s no chance of that happening via the league. For me Arteta would need to win the EL and significantly improve the league position for me to change my mind about him, not that interested in the FA cup, it’s a nice bonus but that’s it for me.

In the end still very poor unconvinced in his management ability, despite improved results.


After seeing how we play with ESR in midfield and Partey now joining, I just hope Arteta follows up and looks for like for like if those players aren't available for whatever reason. I hope he doesn't pull a Wenger and buys a 'Xhaka' after seeing the impact a player like Rosicky or Cazorla have on midfield when played as CM.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:21 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Özim wrote:The recent results are obviously good, but there’s a fair amount of fortune in there, Arteta would never be playing the likes of ESR, Martinelli if not for the fact certain players were out, in the end these players had a huge impact on stopping they dreadful run.

I think the recent run is great but most have been fairly easy games, other than Chelsea who never got going in the game.

Will be interesting to see how we get on going forward, we beat Newcastle convincingly but Newcastle are in a terrible state after being affected by Coronavirus, they’re a side very low on confidence.

IMO the league is done and if Arteta has any sense he’s put more emphasis on winning the EL which offers a CL spot, there’s no chance of that happening via the league. For me Arteta would need to win the EL and significantly improve the league position for me to change my mind about him, not that interested in the FA cup, it’s a nice bonus but that’s it for me.

In the end still very poor unconvinced in his management ability, despite improved results.


After seeing how we play with ESR in midfield and Partey now joining, I just hope Arteta follows up and looks for like for like if those players aren't available for whatever reason. I hope he doesn't pull a Wenger and buys a 'Xhaka' after seeing the impact a player like Rosicky or Cazorla have on midfield when played as CM.


Totally agree, he stuck with a midfield with no creativity and was reluctant to give ESR a chance for months, (wasn’t he trying to loan him out last summer?), so I don’t trust his judgment fully.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby ag6789 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:46 pm

Maybe he is just cautious about juniors and kids. He expected the seniors like Willian,Ceballos and Pepe to deliver ( I think most of us had same expectations ). When both Wil and Pepe failed, and Ceb was found to be mediocre, he had little choice but to turn to the kids. I think most managers would think in similar lines. None wants to throw the kids in as cannon fodder. Rather wants them to mature gradually.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:21 pm

ag6789 wrote:Maybe he is just cautious about juniors and kids. He expected the seniors like Willian,Ceballos and Pepe to deliver ( I think most of us had same expectations ). When both Wil and Pepe failed, and Ceb was found to be mediocre, he had little choice but to turn to the kids. I think most managers would think in similar lines. None wants to throw the kids in as cannon fodder. Rather wants them to mature gradually.


Caution over ESR could be true because he's been injured a lot and Martinelli has just returned from injury. But that's not the whole story. We've only recently switched to a 4-2-3-1 and have played Saka as LWB in a 3-4-3 for most games. Most of the season we haven't been playing creative 8's or 10's in midfield but Arteta is trying to play possession based attacking football which has never made much sense to me. When he finally switched formations to a 4-2-3-1, he chose Lacazette or Willock to play as the 10 but still had very cautious and negative passers in behind them.

Saka is a player capable of playing as an 8 or 10 in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 much like Smith Rowe. AMN is a much better player than Willock and can't understand how Willock gets games through the middle before him. Nelson had good appearances in the Europa League but never got call up to play in the Prem. But on the other hand Nketiah and Willock were call upon, two of worst candidates to call on because they thrive off service and aren't touch heavy players. Throwing them in a team that can't pass or create made no sense. It's that sort of thing i can't understand.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:23 pm

ag6789 wrote:Maybe he is just cautious about juniors and kids. He expected the seniors like Willian,Ceballos and Pepe to deliver ( I think most of us had same expectations ). When both Wil and Pepe failed, and Ceb was found to be mediocre, he had little choice but to turn to the kids. I think most managers would think in similar lines. None wants to throw the kids in as cannon fodder. Rather wants them to mature gradually.

Ceballos was 23 when he played his first game under arteta
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:37 pm

ag6789 wrote:Maybe he is just cautious about juniors and kids. He expected the seniors like Willian,Ceballos and Pepe to deliver ( I think most of us had same expectations ). When both Wil and Pepe failed, and Ceb was found to be mediocre, he had little choice but to turn to the kids. I think most managers would think in similar lines. None wants to throw the kids in as cannon fodder. Rather wants them to mature gradually.


I don’t agree, we were going through a horrendous run and actually had been playing poorly for months, still he changed nothing and tried no one else, he just stuck to the same failing formula, it’s amateurish.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:46 pm

ag6789 wrote:Maybe he is just cautious about juniors and kids. He expected the seniors like Willian,Ceballos and Pepe to deliver ( I think most of us had same expectations ). When both Wil and Pepe failed, and Ceb was found to be mediocre, he had little choice but to turn to the kids. I think most managers would think in similar lines. None wants to throw the kids in as cannon fodder. Rather wants them to mature gradually.

Ceballos was 23 when he played his first game under arteta
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby ag6789 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:10 pm

You got to give senior players a run of games to decide on their abilities. Willian was brought in as an experienced operator who could lead the kids in the mid field,but he has turned into a liability himself, Pepe, at 72 mil was considered a game changer, has turned into another liability and Ceb is on and off, inconsistent at 23. These failures couldn't be envisioned by anyone, including Arte. When you recruit a player, you take a limited risk gamble, trusting partly the recruiting agent and rest on the past performances. When it doesn't work out it is bad luck. Happens to all teams
One has be patient during transition periods.
Luckily at least some of the academy products have succeeded. Willock, Nelson, AMN have been hit and miss...but given time they might come good.
All the time knee-jerk reactions don't work.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby themessiah » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:34 pm

Needs to Win the FA Cup and Europa league in same season for me or he has to walk tbf.

Arteta getting us UCL Football and First his Major European Trophy would be great and would make me eat my words.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:12 pm

Jedi wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Tbh I'm happy he's steadied the ship but I'm a little underwhelmed, that for 3 years now ......... its taken us this long just to go round the houses back to Wenger ball.

I suppose the only good thing having these new managers is that hopefully they clear out the deadwood Wenger left us.

But as for style of play, we could of not changed anything since Wenger and be right where we are now in terms of style of play.

The players have responded as well, they seem to enjoy it, I guess that's who we are now.

A Wengerball team.

Time to go buy some CAM's and just get on with it.

5 clean sheets in a row and one of the best defensive records in the league... Nothing like Wengerball


Wengerball doesn't = Sh*t defense.

Having crap defenders = sh*t defense.

Did Wenger have a bad defense when he had Sol Campbell and Toure?

Even that is besides the point, Wengerball is possession, pass, pass, pass, pass football.

Basically, its a poorer version of Tiki Taka.

Defense has got nothing to do with it as a style of play, your comment was pointless.
Last edited by DiamondGooner on Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:12 pm

ag6789 wrote:You got to give senior players a run of games to decide on their abilities. Willian was brought in as an experienced operator who could lead the kids in the mid field,but he has turned into a liability himself, Pepe, at 72 mil was considered a game changer, has turned into another liability and Ceb is on and off, inconsistent at 23. These failures couldn't be envisioned by anyone, including Arte. When you recruit a player, you take a limited risk gamble, trusting partly the recruiting agent and rest on the past performances. When it doesn't work out it is bad luck. Happens to all teams
One has be patient during transition periods.
Luckily at least some of the academy products have succeeded. Willock, Nelson, AMN have been hit and miss...but given time they might come good.
All the time knee-jerk reactions don't work.


If this line were true, Ozil, Sokratis, Kolasinac and Mustafi would have played more games over players like Tierney, Saka and Gabriel. Same goes for Soares over Bellerin..

Nketiah and Willock have played more minutes than these seniors as well so it doesn't look like it's seniority over youth.

But besides the selection question I'm more so thinking about where he's chosen to play certain players and the team set up. That central midfield has been a big issue for ages and regardless of age, I can't understand why he hasn't looked to play more technically skilled players in that area earlier.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:38 pm

We have had better performances in the past few games for sure, is it down to the quality of opposition ? We will find out at some point. In the past 5 games the only team in better form than us is Man City, they having won 5 out of 5.

Our next 5 league games are:
Southampton
Man U
Wolves
A Villa
Leeds

Followed by:
Man City
Leicester
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Alexis » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 pm

theHotHead wrote:We have had better performances in the past few games for sure, is it down to the quality of opposition ? We will find out at some point. In the past 5 games the only team in better form than us is Man City, they having won 5 out of 5.

Our next 5 league games are:
Southampton
Man U
Wolves
A Villa
Leeds

Followed by:
Man City
Leicester


If we scrape 12 points out of that, we are still in with a shout. Most teams are yoyoing this season between form and we are only 10 points from the top. Yes some teams have game in hand like villa, but they'll have tighter schedule with less rest days than they would have had they played it during original dates which makes me think there's a good chance they drop points where they may not have originally.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:09 pm

I'd say he needs 10 points out of those next 5 games to keep the faith.

........... and if we don't bring in a CAM to make sure we have one in every game with or without ESR then Arteta will get no pity from me.

His whole 4-2-3-1 set up revolves around it, if he can't make that clear, even for a loan to the AFC board that he needs one then he's not the man for the job.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:27 pm

3 wins and a draw, seems reasonable enough. Anyone that says we shouldn't be expecting wins against Leeds, Wolves and Villa needs to be bitch-slapped ! A draw against Southampton I will accept through gritted teeth, similarly a loss to Man U I would grudgingly accept.

Anything less than the above is unacceptable.
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