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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:41 pm
by DiamondGooner
Özim wrote:You can’t excuse him of all these things, he’s the manager and these issues have arisen since he arrived, they didn’t happen before so it’s down to him.


Emery had the juiniors insulting and making fun of him then he had an out and out mutiny.

I think that's worse.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:52 pm
by Angelito
^ Emery isn't the yardstick though.

Arteta and Freddie couldn't work with one another either. So much so that Freddie was up in the stands watching our games.

Arsenal folks don't expect a title challenge. The Kroenke's probably expect a direct Europa League qualification right now. The long-term goal of Arsenal directors and the board is to become a top-4 regular again.

We have more money to spend these days, so they'd expect a run similar to Wenger's from 13/14 until 16/17.

If Arteta finished 2nd—lagging 10 points behind winners Spurs, people would be elated this season. That's how low the expectations are. Heck, if Spurs lost 2-0 to City, we'd have some of our fans bragging about our 1-0 loss to them as opposed to Spurs' 2-0 loss at home.

Emery had to bear far more pressure than Arteta ever has thus far. If we look at the shortcomings of Arteta until now, from a neutral standpoint:

    - Worst creative stats for over two decades;
    - Man-management issues and favoritism;
    - Poorest performing side in the past 5 years despite having a better squad;
    - A defensive, rigid style of playing; boring football;
    - Lack of faith in youngsters.

In addition, Arteta would, in no way, put faith on a 19-year-old prodigy and build a team around him, whilst playing the best football in Europe. Yet, 90% of the Gooners—including yours truly—are patient enough to support him right now.

My barometer for every Arsenal manager is 16/17 in terms of results. If we lose out on top-4 by a hair, in a record fashion, it's all fine. If we can win a trophy doing so, that's so much the better. But if we appear clueless because of some warped notion of how an ex Assistant Manager at the richest club in the world deems football should be played, I would have a problem with that.

We had a chance to sign Conte, we opted for Emery. We had a chance to sign Pochettino, we opted for Arteta. There's no leverage but, yet, still, we are giving him ample leverage.

We can hope.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:30 pm
by Özim
DiamondGooner wrote:
Özim wrote:You can’t excuse him of all these things, he’s the manager and these issues have arisen since he arrived, they didn’t happen before so it’s down to him.


Emery had the juiniors insulting and making fun of him then he had an out and out mutiny.

I think that's worse.


Emery lost his job as well.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:53 pm
by jayramfootball
Arteta has already proven himself to be an authoritarian manager, but even worse that that, he turns his bullying on and off depending on who his favourites are.
Now he's spouting his mouth off about finding and punishing the source the of the leak - the person or people who spoke about Ceballos and Luiz having a bust up. These are two of his favourite players - they can do anything and get away with it.
Our manager is more concerned about retribution for the person who leaked and having them suffer 'consequences'.

What an utter shit Arteta is turning out to be.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... d-incident

No way he keeps the dressing room or the fans onside with his little man syndrome behaviour.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:20 pm
by Özim
The guy should be more concerned about his players fighting and dealing with that than finding the source of the leak anyway, if nothing happens there’s nothing to leak!

This guy does not have a clue, the tide will turn against him very quickly if he keeps going like this, he’s not in his cushy job at City putting out the cones and getting credit for Guardiola’s success anymore!

Meanwhile Mourinho’s Spurs are beating City 2-0 (and about to go top) against the side who had players out left right and centre whom we most of the game camped in our own half against and then lost.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:07 pm
by Alexis
Özim wrote:The guy should be more concerned about his players fighting and dealing with that than finding the source of the leak anyway, if nothing happens there’s nothing to leak!

This guy does not have a clue, the tide will turn against him very quickly if he keeps going like this, he’s not in his cushy job at City putting out the cones and getting credit for Guardiola’s success anymore!

Meanwhile Mourinho’s Spurs are beating City 2-0 (and about to go top) against the side who had players out left right and centre whom we most of the game camped in our own half against and then lost.


lol mou parked the bus and hit them on the counter. no different.

i dont know why you are bringing up the city game, that should have been at minimum a draw as walker handled the ball in their box and that type of penalties has been given about 100 times before but the fukwits decided against it. you can't blame that on arteta. also spurs are just on a mini run, once kane breaks down it will all fall apart again.

also i dont get why folk are talkin some absolute garbage. we in the midst of a shit season, as long as he can get some kind of identity and playstyle sorted, the results should start to pick up. End of next season would be the perfect time to analyse him and see whether its worth continuing or changing it up.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:11 pm
by Mike Dean
Spurs brought in Mourinho. They are looking like title contenders.

We brought in Arteta. We look like mid table fodders.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:40 pm
by Özim
Alexis wrote:
Özim wrote:The guy should be more concerned about his players fighting and dealing with that than finding the source of the leak anyway, if nothing happens there’s nothing to leak!

This guy does not have a clue, the tide will turn against him very quickly if he keeps going like this, he’s not in his cushy job at City putting out the cones and getting credit for Guardiola’s success anymore!

Meanwhile Mourinho’s Spurs are beating City 2-0 (and about to go top) against the side who had players out left right and centre whom we most of the game camped in our own half against and then lost.


lol mou parked the bus and hit them on the counter. no different.

i dont know why you are bringing up the city game, that should have been at minimum a draw as walker handled the ball in their box and that type of penalties has been given about 100 times before but the fukwits decided against it. you can't blame that on arteta. also spurs are just on a mini run, once kane breaks down it will all fall apart again.

also i dont get why folk are talkin some absolute garbage. we in the midst of a shit season, as long as he can get some kind of identity and playstyle sorted, the results should start to pick up. End of next season would be the perfect time to analyse him and see whether its worth continuing or changing it up.


Wrong tactically it was great, he beat them with tactics and not just one tactic used for everyone a tactic that fits the opposition.

I blame Arteta because Man City had most of the big guns out and yet we just parked the bus and then deservedly lost, it’s Arteta one and only tactic and that’s not management!

He’s been in charge of the season if it’s a rubbish season it’s 100% down to him, right now the style is awful and results poor too, he parks the bus and sacrifices our attack which is very potent for defence, Aubameyang and Laca have had less shots on goal than Maguire this season and Aubameyang didn’t have a shot last match, it’s ridiculous.

Now we’ve got issues with player discipline left, right and centre as well on top of that!

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:41 am
by Power n Glory
We play our best football on the counter. Only watched the highlights but it's not that different from how Spurs beat City. If anyone finds Arteta's style boring you wouldn't enjoy watching us coached by Mourinho either.

Personally, I hope Arteta isn't trying to replicate Pep's style of football. It doesn't work and costs billions in players to get it working. Us trying to dominate possession more and player higher up the pitch has cost us some points. That Villa lose looks a lot worse. Hoping to see something new today but it sounds like we'll see more of the same judging from Arteta's press run.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:56 am
by LMAO
Power n Glory wrote:We play our best football on the counter. Only watched the highlights but it's not that different from how Spurs beat City. If anyone finds Arteta's style boring you wouldn't enjoy watching us coached by Mourinho either.

Personally, I hope Arteta isn't trying to replicate Pep's style of football. It doesn't work and costs billions in players to get it working. Us trying to dominate possession more and player higher up the pitch has cost us some points. That Villa lose looks a lot worse. Hoping to see something new today but it sounds like we'll see more of the same judging from Arteta's press run.


As long as he drops Laca and Willian... :disgust:

A front three of Pepe-Auba-Saka is all I ask for until Martinelli can play games.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:28 am
by Power n Glory
LMAO wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:We play our best football on the counter. Only watched the highlights but it's not that different from how Spurs beat City. If anyone finds Arteta's style boring you wouldn't enjoy watching us coached by Mourinho either.

Personally, I hope Arteta isn't trying to replicate Pep's style of football. It doesn't work and costs billions in players to get it working. Us trying to dominate possession more and player higher up the pitch has cost us some points. That Villa lose looks a lot worse. Hoping to see something new today but it sounds like we'll see more of the same judging from Arteta's press run.


As long as he drops Laca and Willian... :disgust:

A front three of Pepe-Auba-Saka is all I ask for until Martinelli can play games.


I think he'll play Auba down the left and Lacazette up front again. Pepe will probably start instead of Willian though.

It's the midfield combo I'm looking at. It will be Xhaka and Ceballos as the midfield two again. 3-4-3. Depends if Leeds press high or allow us to have the ball. I think we're in trouble if they don't press. Ceballos needs to have a good game regardless.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:39 am
by EliteKiller
Power n Glory wrote:We play our best football on the counter. Only watched the highlights but it's not that different from how Spurs beat City. If anyone finds Arteta's style boring you wouldn't enjoy watching us coached by Mourinho either.

Personally, I hope Arteta isn't trying to replicate Pep's style of football. It doesn't work and costs billions in players to get it working. Us trying to dominate possession more and player higher up the pitch has cost us some points. That Villa lose looks a lot worse. Hoping to see something new today but it sounds like we'll see more of the same judging from Arteta's press run.


It's chalk and cheese - Spurs played a very congested narrow defence giving away the wide areas (City managed 23 crosses, had 10 corners to Spurs 0)) Spurs were only defending the zone in line with the penalty area, it's football designed for counter attacking as opposing players are drawn out wide creating holes for one of the front three to drop in (and they have Kane) that's a tactical plan not a lucky accident.

We played City with two wide FB's and tried to defend the wings almost the exact opposite approach, this meant that with FB's out wide our midfield had to drop deep to hold their midfield runners, and as happens most weeks we isolated the front three who can't or won't drop deep.

When we played City we created ZERO attempts from playing on the counter attack, our transition was just to slow - 8 of our 11 attempts came from set pieces, we didn't manage a single shot on target in the second half ... Spurs created all their attempts (and both goals) from fast counter attacks where City players were caught out of position.

Spurs made 24 tackles in midfield we made just 11 .... Spurs aggressive press disposed Man City 18 times, we managed to do that just 5 times.

You may think Arteta sets up like Mourinho but it's just not true ... he sets up far more like Pep with his attacking fullbacks supposed to drag opposing players wide and create space for the front three to exploit ... the problem is everyone knows this is Plan A and defend accordingly, feck we even made Villa look good.

Mourinho just let Walker and Cancelo run out of position, in fact he switched Son away from Walker (who has the pace to recover) and played him against Cancelo, that worked after just 5 minutes ...

Compared to Mourinho Arteta is very naive, hardly surprising it's his first job - today he will be compared to Bielsa another man with 65 years behind him ...

Bielsa will have his players in the face of our midfield and defence, if he can isolate our front three from the rest we will be feeding off scraps yet again, we will need a quick goal to break up their game plan, if not Arteta will need to find a bloody good Plan B

Mourinho did it with Pep which despite similar possession to us he won 2-0 and Arteta lost 1-0 ... so no it's not the same at all.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:06 am
by Power n Glory
EliteKiller wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:We play our best football on the counter. Only watched the highlights but it's not that different from how Spurs beat City. If anyone finds Arteta's style boring you wouldn't enjoy watching us coached by Mourinho either.

Personally, I hope Arteta isn't trying to replicate Pep's style of football. It doesn't work and costs billions in players to get it working. Us trying to dominate possession more and player higher up the pitch has cost us some points. That Villa lose looks a lot worse. Hoping to see something new today but it sounds like we'll see more of the same judging from Arteta's press run.


It's chalk and cheese - Spurs played a very congested narrow defence giving away the wide areas (City managed 23 crosses, had 10 corners to Spurs 0)) Spurs were only defending the zone in line with the penalty area, it's football designed for counter attacking as opposing players are drawn out wide creating holes for one of the front three to drop in (and they have Kane) that's a tactical plan not a lucky accident.

We played City with two wide FB's and tried to defend the wings almost the exact opposite approach, this meant that with FB's out wide our midfield had to drop deep to hold their midfield runners, and as happens most weeks we isolated the front three who can't or won't drop deep.

When we played City we created ZERO attempts from playing on the counter attack, our transition was just to slow - 8 of our 11 attempts came from set pieces, we didn't manage a single shot on target in the second half ... Spurs created all their attempts (and both goals) from fast counter attacks where City players were caught out of position.

Spurs made 24 tackles in midfield we made just 11 .... Spurs aggressive press disposed Man City 18 times, we managed to do that just 5 times.

You may think Arteta sets up like Mourinho but it's just not true ... he sets up far more like Pep with his attacking fullbacks supposed to drag opposing players wide and create space for the front three to exploit ... the problem is everyone knows this is Plan A and defend accordingly, feck we even made Villa look good.

Mourinho just let Walker and Cancelo run out of position, in fact he switched Son away from Walker (who has the pace to recover) and played him against Cancelo, that worked after just 5 minutes ...

Compared to Mourinho Arteta is very naive, hardly surprising it's his first job - today he will be compared to Bielsa another man with 65 years behind him ...

Bielsa will have his players in the face of our midfield and defence, if he can isolate our front three from the rest we will be feeding off scraps yet again, we will need a quick goal to break up their game plan, if not Arteta will need to find a bloody good Plan B

Mourinho did it with Pep which despite similar possession to us he won 2-0 and Arteta lost 1-0 ... so no it's not the same at all.


You may be the exception but you're splitting hairs between defence set ups. If you look through most of those that have been critical of our style, they say it's just too defensive, we're not creating much and it's boring.

Without question, Arteta isn't Mourinho and he may try to be a bit more offensive than him but for those that can't stomach his style and just simply say it's not attractive, boring, but enough chances/shots...again, I don't think they'd an enjoy an Mourinho team who is more defensive.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:16 am
by EliteKiller
Power n Glory wrote:You may be the exception but you're splitting hairs between defence set ups. If you look through most of those that have been critical of our style, they say it's just too defensive, we're not creating much and it's boring.

Without question, Arteta isn't Mourinho and he may try to be a bit more offensive than him but for those that can't stomach his style and just simply say it's not attractive, boring, but enough chances/shots...again, I don't think they'd an enjoy an Mourinho team who is more defensive.


I get what you're saying but I reckon as long as you're winning most fans will be OK with that ... I watched the Spurs game and it was pretty boring stuff, technically very good but as a crowd pleaser forget it ... that said I bet most Spurs fans are like pigs in shit this morning.

Leicester when they won the title played nine men behind the ball, fouled any player who got within thirty yards of goal, and just booted it long for Vardy and Co. Dire football but do any Leicester fans now care about that?

The only thing that matters for Arteta is top four points or trophies - The FA Cup rightly made last season a success - if he can repeat that trophy winning trick all well and good, but if he can't missing out on the CL for the 5th season in a row, that simply won't cut it especially if the lot up the road get in.

I remember boring, boring Arsenal ... they were good times.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:23 am
by Power n Glory
EliteKiller wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:You may be the exception but you're splitting hairs between defence set ups. If you look through most of those that have been critical of our style, they say it's just too defensive, we're not creating much and it's boring.

Without question, Arteta isn't Mourinho and he may try to be a bit more offensive than him but for those that can't stomach his style and just simply say it's not attractive, boring, but enough chances/shots...again, I don't think they'd an enjoy an Mourinho team who is more defensive.


I get what you're saying but I reckon as long as you're winning most fans will be OK with that ... I watched the Spurs game and it was pretty boring stuff, technically very good but as a crowd pleaser forget it ... that said I bet most Spurs fans are like pigs in shit this morning.

Leicester when they won the title played nine men behind the ball, fouled any player who got within thirty yards of goal, and just booted it long for Vardy and Co. Dire football but do any Leicester fans now care about that?

The only thing that matters for Arteta is top four points or trophies - The FA Cup rightly made last season a success - if he can repeat that trophy winning trick all well and good, but if he can't missing out on the CL for the 5th season in a row, that simply won't cut it especially if the lot up the road get in.

I remember boring, boring Arsenal ... they were good times.


Yes, I think the majority would be happy if we were winning games. There are exceptions because even whilst winning there were some that were unhappy with the style of play.