Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:44 am

gamechannel wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Problem for Arteta (and Emery) was that they inherited a very broken squad loaded down with overpaid under-performing dross, add to that the number of ageing players on huge salaries and it was a near impossible task. It hasn't helped that yet more average dross has been added since and that yet more ageing players have been given huge salaries, the reality is brutal ...

What experienced superstar player who can earn 250k a week anywhere wants to join a mid-table squad, where he will be earning less than guys running down their contracts? What young superstar will want to play for a mid-table squad unless it's just a loan season in the EPL shop window, what emerging talent will want to join mid-table squad where he knows that ageing overpaid players are going to limit his playing time ... what juniors sees Arsenal as the top side we were twenty years ago?

The club is rotten, Arteta can't fix that however good he might be, for several years we have entered every transfer window saying the same thing - we must get rid of the dross before we can start moving forward - but we never do ...

This summer we must shift - Mustafi - Sokratis - Luiz - Soares - Ozil - Willian - Auba - and if we don't want them or they won't extend contracts add to that list Laca - Nketiah - Chambers - Kolasniac - Elneny - Bellerin - AMN - Wilock - Nelson - ESM

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it but it's the mess we've got ourselves into and it needs fixing, if we don't then we will just bump along as we have been for five years, slowly going backwards.

Can't be done? Spurs have shifted out 9 players in two years, Liverpool 13, and Chelsea 15 .... it can be done, and it needs to be done ....

Until the club takes action on the contract shambles we've been stuck with since Arsene, then no manager, Arteta included, has a hope in hell of making us into a realistic title or CL contender, not a freckin' prayer.


I agree that the club needs major fixing. But part of the mess is directly Artetas fault. I just wish people would stop blaming Wenger for the mess we are in. Dudes been gone for 2.5 years and people still blame him for our shit squad whereas reality is different.

Emery was backed by the board. As has Arteta. Both made questionable decisions on the squad. Arteta, for example:
- Extensions for Mari, Cedric and Luiz
- Extension for Auba
- Purchases of Partey and Gabriel
- Signing of Willian.
- Renewing Cebellos' Loan deal

I find it funny when people say Arteta is still dealing with Wengers deadwood. Its completely ridiculous. The holdovers from Wengers time here are:

- Auba (key player whos contract was renewed under Arteta)
- Lacazette (Arteta wants him to be extended. Refused an offer from Roma this summer)
- Xhaka (Arteta loves him AND he got extended AFTER wenger left)
- El Neny (Arteta likes him and wants to extend him. The club didn't sell him in the summer despite there being interest in his services)
- AMN (There was a good offer on the table in the summer but the Arteta didn't want him sold).
- Bellerin (The fact that Arteta plays him over AMN AND Cedric, both players Arteta wanted to keep should tell you that Arteta values him)
- Mustafi (another player who Arteta likes and offered him a new deal recently)
- Kolasinac (Didnt sell him this summer despite there being an offer shows Arteta wanted to keep him around)
- Holding (plays over Mustafi and Luiz, both players Arteta likes so clearly Arteta likes him)
- Chambers (The club didn't sell him after Wenger left even though there was an offer on the table for him).
- Saka (Probably our best player)
- Willock (Fans actually want him to play more!)
- ESR (Same as Willock)

All of Wenger's alleged deadwood players are actually valued by the current manager. If anything, the current regime has actually ADDED to the dead weight, including:
- Willian
- Cedric
- Mari
- Luiz
- Pepe (Arguably)
- Saliba (Arguably cuz Mikel the genuis doesn't rate him)

So really, all this alleged Wenger-Era dead weight people keep talking about is all bunch of horseshit. The irony is, most of the players gotten rid of in the last 2 windows by Arsenal so far are the ones that were brought in AFTER Wenger left or were actually valuable players from Wengers reign that have not been replaced or replaced with mediocre replacements or equal but expensive upgrades.

- Torreira
- Guendouzi
- Martinez
- Wilshere
- Ramsey
- Sokratis
- Lichtsteiner
- Kolscielny
- Cazorla
- Iwobi

The club is rotten but Arteta is not free from blame. He has been responsible for playing favorites and was directly involved in adding to the deadweight this summer and wanting to keep the existing deadweight around.


Good points made. No divorcing Wenger and Gazidis from what was left behind but Emery and Arteta have made their own mistakes and created new dilemmas.
We haven't been wise with our transfer strategy. Raul was sacked for a reason and I think we'll soon see the same for Edu.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:10 pm

Angelito wrote:
Angelito wrote:Interesting big chances created stats since the season we missed out on UCL football (16/17):

16/17

1. City ~ 77
2. United ~ 62
3. Arsenal ~ 55

17/18 (Wenger's last season)

1. City ~ 91
2. Arsenal ~ 81
3. Liverpool ~ 78

18/19 (Emery's first season)

1. City ~ 101
2. Chelsea ~ 81
3. Liverpool ~ 78
..
5. Arsenal ~ 72

19/20

1. City ~ 108
2. Liverpool ~ 88
3. Chelsea ~ 74
..
12. Arsenal ~ 48

20/21 (so far)

1. Spurs ~ 21
2. Villa ~ 18
3. Liverpool ~ 17
..
10. Arsenal ~ 8


Updated after 8 games.

I don't know how Arteta plans to resolve this deficiency. It does hurt that we don't have a CAM but even with a CAM, if the system is so rigid and static, I can't see us turning up the heat any time soon.

Mate chances created is a stat created by Ozil fans that favour Ozil. Why are you using them for this point?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:16 pm

gamechannel wrote:
I agree that the club needs major fixing. But part of the mess is directly Artetas fault. I just wish people would stop blaming Wenger for the mess we are in. Dudes been gone for 2.5 years and people still blame him for our shit squad whereas reality is different.

Emery was backed by the board. As has Arteta. Both made questionable decisions on the squad. Arteta, for example:
- Extensions for Mari, Cedric and Luiz
- Extension for Auba
- Purchases of Partey and Gabriel
- Signing of Willian.
- Renewing Cebellos' Loan deal

I find it funny when people say Arteta is still dealing with Wengers deadwood. Its completely ridiculous. The holdovers from Wengers time here are:

- Auba (key player whos contract was renewed under Arteta)
- Lacazette (Arteta wants him to be extended. Refused an offer from Roma this summer)
- Xhaka (Arteta loves him AND he got extended AFTER wenger left)
- El Neny (Arteta likes him and wants to extend him. The club didn't sell him in the summer despite there being interest in his services)
- AMN (There was a good offer on the table in the summer but the Arteta didn't want him sold).
- Bellerin (The fact that Arteta plays him over AMN AND Cedric, both players Arteta wanted to keep should tell you that Arteta values him)
- Mustafi (another player who Arteta likes and offered him a new deal recently)
- Kolasinac (Didnt sell him this summer despite there being an offer shows Arteta wanted to keep him around)
- Holding (plays over Mustafi and Luiz, both players Arteta likes so clearly Arteta likes him)
- Chambers (The club didn't sell him after Wenger left even though there was an offer on the table for him).
- Saka (Probably our best player)
- Willock (Fans actually want him to play more!)
- ESR (Same as Willock)

All of Wenger's alleged deadwood players are actually valued by the current manager. If anything, the current regime has actually ADDED to the dead weight, including:
- Willian
- Cedric
- Mari
- Luiz
- Pepe (Arguably)
- Saliba (Arguably cuz Mikel the genuis doesn't rate him)

So really, all this alleged Wenger-Era dead weight people keep talking about is all bunch of horseshit. The irony is, most of the players gotten rid of in the last 2 windows by Arsenal so far are the ones that were brought in AFTER Wenger left or were actually valuable players from Wengers reign that have not been replaced or replaced with mediocre replacements or equal but expensive upgrades.

- Torreira
- Guendouzi
- Martinez
- Wilshere
- Ramsey
- Sokratis
- Lichtsteiner
- Kolscielny
- Cazorla
- Iwobi

The club is rotten but Arteta is not free from blame. He has been responsible for playing favorites and was directly involved in adding to the deadweight this summer and wanting to keep the existing deadweight around.

Good post.

All Emery had to do was tighten up the defence, even a small improvement would have had big affects. He messed that up.

Arteta has come in and completely destroyed a perfectly good attack - in order to fix the defence.

Totally agree that neither manager can blame Wenger for their f**k ups!! It was idiocy from Emery and lunacy from Arteta.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby gamechannel » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:15 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Problem for Arteta (and Emery) was that they inherited a very broken squad loaded down with overpaid under-performing dross, add to that the number of ageing players on huge salaries and it was a near impossible task. It hasn't helped that yet more average dross has been added since and that yet more ageing players have been given huge salaries, the reality is brutal ...

What experienced superstar player who can earn 250k a week anywhere wants to join a mid-table squad, where he will be earning less than guys running down their contracts? What young superstar will want to play for a mid-table squad unless it's just a loan season in the EPL shop window, what emerging talent will want to join mid-table squad where he knows that ageing overpaid players are going to limit his playing time ... what juniors sees Arsenal as the top side we were twenty years ago?

The club is rotten, Arteta can't fix that however good he might be, for several years we have entered every transfer window saying the same thing - we must get rid of the dross before we can start moving forward - but we never do ...

This summer we must shift - Mustafi - Sokratis - Luiz - Soares - Ozil - Willian - Auba - and if we don't want them or they won't extend contracts add to that list Laca - Nketiah - Chambers - Kolasniac - Elneny - Bellerin - AMN - Wilock - Nelson - ESM

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it but it's the mess we've got ourselves into and it needs fixing, if we don't then we will just bump along as we have been for five years, slowly going backwards.

Can't be done? Spurs have shifted out 9 players in two years, Liverpool 13, and Chelsea 15 .... it can be done, and it needs to be done ....

Until the club takes action on the contract shambles we've been stuck with since Arsene, then no manager, Arteta included, has a hope in hell of making us into a realistic title or CL contender, not a freckin' prayer.


I agree that the club needs major fixing. But part of the mess is directly Artetas fault. I just wish people would stop blaming Wenger for the mess we are in. Dudes been gone for 2.5 years and people still blame him for our shit squad whereas reality is different.

Emery was backed by the board. As has Arteta. Both made questionable decisions on the squad. Arteta, for example:
- Extensions for Mari, Cedric and Luiz
- Extension for Auba
- Purchases of Partey and Gabriel
- Signing of Willian.
- Renewing Cebellos' Loan deal

I find it funny when people say Arteta is still dealing with Wengers deadwood. Its completely ridiculous. The holdovers from Wengers time here are:

- Auba (key player whos contract was renewed under Arteta)
- Lacazette (Arteta wants him to be extended. Refused an offer from Roma this summer)
- Xhaka (Arteta loves him AND he got extended AFTER wenger left)
- El Neny (Arteta likes him and wants to extend him. The club didn't sell him in the summer despite there being interest in his services)
- AMN (There was a good offer on the table in the summer but the Arteta didn't want him sold).
- Bellerin (The fact that Arteta plays him over AMN AND Cedric, both players Arteta wanted to keep should tell you that Arteta values him)
- Mustafi (another player who Arteta likes and offered him a new deal recently)
- Kolasinac (Didnt sell him this summer despite there being an offer shows Arteta wanted to keep him around)
- Holding (plays over Mustafi and Luiz, both players Arteta likes so clearly Arteta likes him)
- Chambers (The club didn't sell him after Wenger left even though there was an offer on the table for him).
- Saka (Probably our best player)
- Willock (Fans actually want him to play more!)
- ESR (Same as Willock)

All of Wenger's alleged deadwood players are actually valued by the current manager. If anything, the current regime has actually ADDED to the dead weight, including:
- Willian
- Cedric
- Mari
- Luiz
- Pepe (Arguably)
- Saliba (Arguably cuz Mikel the genuis doesn't rate him)

So really, all this alleged Wenger-Era dead weight people keep talking about is all bunch of horseshit. The irony is, most of the players gotten rid of in the last 2 windows by Arsenal so far are the ones that were brought in AFTER Wenger left or were actually valuable players from Wengers reign that have not been replaced or replaced with mediocre replacements or equal but expensive upgrades.

- Torreira
- Guendouzi
- Martinez
- Wilshere
- Ramsey
- Sokratis
- Lichtsteiner
- Kolscielny
- Cazorla
- Iwobi

The club is rotten but Arteta is not free from blame. He has been responsible for playing favorites and was directly involved in adding to the deadweight this summer and wanting to keep the existing deadweight around.


I get your response but you're simply missing the point ....

Gazidis and Arsenal created a culture at Arsenal based on their 'belief' in where football was going, Kroenke bought into that horseshit .... to deny that legacy is ridiculous.

You can't change that culture, a culture broadly based on five year contracts, in just two years. What's annoying is that we've hardly tried, as tired old players finally end their contracts, we just get in more tired old players to replace them .... we never learn.

But that culture should be ending, there is a whole bunch of stupidly expensive contracts that can be gotten rid of this summer - the question as always is will we?


Oh please! The Wenger-era culture could have been totally changed in the past couple of windows if the managers actually wanted to get rid of the Wenger-Era players! I just listed them all in my post where the previous abd the current manager has wanted to keep the wenger-era players as there were clear opportunities to do so yet they didnt do it. They could have sold those players and started anew with new contract approaches and restarted the culture. They didn't because they see value in Wenger era players. Mustafi for example, Arteta could have sent him packing and replaced him with Saliba. But nope, Saliba was sacrificed to keep Mustafi in the squad. Thats just one example.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby EliteKiller » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:29 pm

gamechannel wrote:Oh please! The Wenger-era culture could have been totally changed in the past couple of windows if the managers actually wanted to get rid of the Wenger-Era players! I just listed them all in my post where the previous abd the current manager has wanted to keep the wenger-era players as there were clear opportunities to do so yet they didnt do it. They could have sold those players and started anew with new contract approaches and restarted the culture. They didn't because they see value in Wenger era players. Mustafi for example, Arteta could have sent him packing and replaced him with Saliba. But nope, Saliba was sacrificed to keep Mustafi in the squad. Thats just one example.


The inability to read and comprehend is just appalling on this site:

The Wenger-era culture could have been totally changed in the past couple of windows


The point that was very clearly made wasn't that it couldn't have been done, of course it could, but that it wasn't - if you honestly believe a multi-million pound company's strategy is set by the lowly inexperienced current football manager, you're living in lala land.

I can guarantee you that Emery and Arteta wish with all their heart that they could have got rid of Ozil, and at least a couple more overpaid wasters, but that wasn't their call when the cost of paying them off was many millions.

The board (and Kroenke) did once give all the power to a megalomaniac manager - and look where that got us - Arteta is now just a middle manger, to think he has the final control on buying and selling players, what century are you living in.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:31 am

EliteKiller wrote:
gamechannel wrote:Oh please! The Wenger-era culture could have been totally changed in the past couple of windows if the managers actually wanted to get rid of the Wenger-Era players! I just listed them all in my post where the previous abd the current manager has wanted to keep the wenger-era players as there were clear opportunities to do so yet they didnt do it. They could have sold those players and started anew with new contract approaches and restarted the culture. They didn't because they see value in Wenger era players. Mustafi for example, Arteta could have sent him packing and replaced him with Saliba. But nope, Saliba was sacrificed to keep Mustafi in the squad. Thats just one example.


The inability to read and comprehend is just appalling on this site:

The Wenger-era culture could have been totally changed in the past couple of windows


The point that was very clearly made wasn't that it couldn't have been done, of course it could, but that it wasn't - if you honestly believe a multi-million pound company's strategy is set by the lowly inexperienced current football manager, you're living in lala land.

I can guarantee you that Emery and Arteta wish with all their heart that they could have got rid of Ozil, and at least a couple more overpaid wasters, but that wasn't their call when the cost of paying them off was many millions.

The board (and Kroenke) did once give all the power to a megalomaniac manager - and look where that got us - Arteta is now just a middle manger, to think he has the final control on buying and selling players, what century are you living in.

Kroenke will make billions off Arsenal so he probably thinks he got it right. Trophies are nice but money is nicer.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby gamechannel » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:00 am

EliteKiller wrote:
gamechannel wrote:Oh please! The Wenger-era culture could have been totally changed in the past couple of windows if the managers actually wanted to get rid of the Wenger-Era players! I just listed them all in my post where the previous abd the current manager has wanted to keep the wenger-era players as there were clear opportunities to do so yet they didnt do it. They could have sold those players and started anew with new contract approaches and restarted the culture. They didn't because they see value in Wenger era players. Mustafi for example, Arteta could have sent him packing and replaced him with Saliba. But nope, Saliba was sacrificed to keep Mustafi in the squad. Thats just one example.


The inability to read and comprehend is just appalling on this site:

The Wenger-era culture could have been totally changed in the past couple of windows


The point that was very clearly made wasn't that it couldn't have been done, of course it could, but that it wasn't - if you honestly believe a multi-million pound company's strategy is set by the lowly inexperienced current football manager, you're living in lala land.

I can guarantee you that Emery and Arteta wish with all their heart that they could have got rid of Ozil, and at least a couple more overpaid wasters, but that wasn't their call when the cost of paying them off was many millions.

The board (and Kroenke) did once give all the power to a megalomaniac manager - and look where that got us - Arteta is now just a middle manger, to think he has the final control on buying and selling players, what century are you living in.


You can't use Ozil as a comparison. Ozil is not being played and is not wanted by the manager. Other players actually are. Some are being played over more deserving younger players that could be instrumental in changing the culture of the club. Example, Mustafi over Saliba, Willian over Nelson, Xhaka over Willock, Bellerin over AMN etc.

My reading comprehension is just fine. You and I agree over the fact that the club is rotten. But my disagreement is over the fact that you think Arteta's hands are tied when he's equally complicit in the current state of the squad and failure to change the culture. When you keep favoring players from previous regimes combined with mediocre signings of your own, you can't hope for a culture change.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby EliteKiller » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:37 am

gamechannel wrote:You can't use Ozil as a comparison. Ozil is not being played and is not wanted by the manager. Other players actually are. Some are being played over more deserving younger players that could be instrumental in changing the culture of the club. Example, Mustafi over Saliba, Willian over Nelson, Xhaka over Willock, Bellerin over AMN etc.

My reading comprehension is just fine. You and I agree over the fact that the club is rotten. But my disagreement is over the fact that you think Arteta's hands are tied when he's equally complicit in the current state of the squad and failure to change the culture. When you keep favoring players from previous regimes combined with mediocre signings of your own, you can't hope for a culture change.


I think we're splitting hairs here ... we agree that the club has fundamentally lost it's way ... my opinion is that Arteta as a rank amateur manager was an easy appointment for a board who would then give him little or no say in transfers and contracts.

Whilst he may be 'complicit' in picking and positioning his players, the squad he inherited and indeed the addition and subtractions in my opinion have all taken place way above his head ... it's why a novice manager was appointed, no experienced manager would stand for it.

I could be wrong maybe Arteta wanted to look forward to having Auba at 34 on 250k a week, wanted Willian on 250k a week, wanted Laca running down his contract, and didn't want to pay Ozil to simply piss off ... but I seriously doubt any of that.

Since Arteta arrived we've signed Partey and Gabriel who are both quality expensive signings with real value on and off the pitch ...

We've also signed Soares, Willian, Mari which looks like three terrible bits of business ...

How much off that is on Arteta? in my book not all that much ... he's just a new-boy company stooge exactly what the board wanted.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:15 am

Nonsense EK!! As Game Channel correctly states, Arteta has chosen to pick and play players that should have been sold. There is NO WAY he is being told who to play, no way he would have accepted the Arsenal job under those circumstances, why would he?

The environment at Arsenal was rotten when he joined, he had a massive rebuild on his hands, to then have the players you can play dictated to you - not a chance in hell!!

And in any case thats a moot point, Arteta is the Manager of Arsenal, he is no longer just a Head Coach and has been since mid September. The transfer window closed at the beginning of October, they obviously didn't just spring the promotion on him, they would have discussed it first. So he had an entire transfer window, the only player he sold was Martinez.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby EliteKiller » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:53 am

theHotHead wrote:Nonsense EK!! As Game Channel correctly states, Arteta has chosen to pick and play players that should have been sold. There is NO WAY he is being told who to play, no way he would have accepted the Arsenal job under those circumstances, why would he?

The environment at Arsenal was rotten when he joined, he had a massive rebuild on his hands, to then have the players you can play dictated to you - not a chance in hell!!

And in any case thats a moot point, Arteta is the Manager of Arsenal, he is no longer just a Head Coach and has been since mid September. The transfer window closed at the beginning of October, they obviously didn't just spring the promotion on him, they would have discussed it first. So he had an entire transfer window, the only player he sold was Martinez.


Jesus - go back and re-read the thread ... nobody suggests for a second that Arteta doesn't pick the team, where did you get that from?

Arteta picks the players but he doesn't buy the squad - if you think he has the outright say on transfers and contracts you're deluded - he's the board's nodding dog, no way he's going to get himself sacked from his first job by calling them out.

To believe that the paid staff tells the board and the billionaire owner what to do? that's cloud cookoo land in any business ...

If we had hired a Mourinho or an Ancelotti then maybe they'd have more influence, but first timer Arteta there's not a chance he's calling the shots ... he just picks the team from the very average squad he's been given, on that basis 7-12th will be about right, top six will be a big achievement. You simply can't make a silk purse from a bunch of sow's ears.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:19 am

Arteta was promoted from head coach to manager so I believe he should have more of say on transfers and squad building.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:42 am

EliteKiller wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Nonsense EK!! As Game Channel correctly states, Arteta has chosen to pick and play players that should have been sold. There is NO WAY he is being told who to play, no way he would have accepted the Arsenal job under those circumstances, why would he?

The environment at Arsenal was rotten when he joined, he had a massive rebuild on his hands, to then have the players you can play dictated to you - not a chance in hell!!

And in any case thats a moot point, Arteta is the Manager of Arsenal, he is no longer just a Head Coach and has been since mid September. The transfer window closed at the beginning of October, they obviously didn't just spring the promotion on him, they would have discussed it first. So he had an entire transfer window, the only player he sold was Martinez.


Jesus - go back and re-read the thread ... nobody suggests for a second that Arteta doesn't pick the team, where did you get that from?

Arteta picks the players but he doesn't buy the squad - if you think he has the outright say on transfers and contracts you're deluded - he's the board's nodding dog, no way he's going to get himself sacked from his first job by calling them out.

To believe that the paid staff tells the board and the billionaire owner what to do? that's cloud cookoo land in any business ...

If we had hired a Mourinho or an Ancelotti then maybe they'd have more influence, but first timer Arteta there's not a chance he's calling the shots ... he just picks the team from the very average squad he's been given, on that basis 7-12th will be about right, top six will be a big achievement. You simply can't make a silk purse from a bunch of sow's ears.

I get all that but you missed the bit where Arteta has been Arsenal manager this season, not a Head Coach. Do you not think if he wanted to sell those players in the off season he couldn't??
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Angelito » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:37 pm

Arteta has been in charge for 28 league games now. 10 more games and that'd be a season for him.

After 28 games, If we compare his record to Unai:

EMERY
Won: 17
Drawn: 5
Lost: 6
----
Scored: 59 goals
Conceded: 38 games
----
PPG: 2.0

ARTETA
Won: 13
Drawn: 6
Lost: 9
----
Scored: 41 goals
Conceded: 31 goals
----
PPG: 1.61

Now, there are mitigating factors here:

- Emery took over from Wengerball, so scoring would never have been an issue;
- Emery oversaw a terrific run of games that didn't see us lose in the league for 14 games;
- Arteta took over from Emery and Raul's chaos mid-season, so he obviously wouldn't be performing at that standard;
- In Klopp's first full season, Rodgers and Klopp's returns were identical. Klopp needed time to bring Liverpool into his groove.

Having said that, Emery was Head Coach here. Klopp is Manager at Liverpool. Arteta was promoted to Manager of Arsenal before 20/21.

Now, if we compare their last 10 games:

Emery won 2, drew 6, and lost 2. Arteta has won 5, lost 5, drawn absolutely none. So in defense of San Mikel, he took over in an absolutely tepid condition at Arsenal.

In the same timeframe, we have scored only 12 goals and have conceded 12 goals so far. In Unai's final 10 games, we scored 17 goals and conceded 15 goals. So, Arteta obviously has done well in his last 10 games with 5 wins compared to Unai's 2 wins. The tricky part is Arteta's Arsenal having a GD of 0, while Unai having a GD of +2.

Moreover, the concerning issue is how we have scored less in Arteta's last 10 games than in Unai's final 10 games despite Unai being known as a pragmatic manager/coach. We've also lost more games in Mikel's last 10 outings.

Personally, I'm willing to wait until January/February. Until Matchday 8, we notched 19 points in 16/17 and 13 in 17/18. So far, we have 12 points, which is the worse than 19/20 at the same stage. In fact, under Unai, we were 8th with 18 points at this stage last season. A PPG of 1.38. Under Arteta, we have a PPG of exactly 1.4.

Will be interesting how we fare after Leeds. We have Wolves, Spurs away, Burnley, Southampton, and Everton away. 10/15 points is the absolute minimum I expect. If we are to challenge for UCL places, we need 12/15 points.

Interesting times ahead.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:52 pm

What he needs to do for me is start imprinting a permanent philosophy and formation for this season.

I'm getting a bit naffed off that he's still messing around, he should know despite the result, what players he has and how to play.

He keeps looking at wholesale changes when what he needs are adjustments.

The only formation imo he's yet to try that suits our players is either a 4-4-2.

Flatter formations with width, but he keeps doing an Emery and bouncing between 4-3-3 and 3-4-3.

We don't have any CAM's so there is no point playing 3 central midfielders, we have CM's (deep), wingers and strikers.

So I want Arteta to ..........

Stick with 2 CM's

Auba through the middle

If he feels 3-4-3 isn't the answer then try 4-4-2.

To me those are his only options.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby aniym » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:56 pm

If you stop by the Utd forums, you'll see that the posters rarely compare the records of LVG to Mourinho, or Mou to OGS these days. They would do that all the time a couple of years ago.

They're on the 4th manager post-SAF so enough time has passed for them to understand that no manager comes in with a slate wiped clean of problems. They're responsible for what happens on match day, but they still have to deal with the realities of the situation as they found it.

Emery had to deal with:
-- a non-existent defense, besides getting Sokratis to replace injured Kos
-- Ozil's drop in form, and no creative replacement with Cazorla and Wilsh being released. Mhikytaryan not good enough at PL level.
-- No wide attacker. Welbeck did OK the first few games in that role, then with the inevitable injury, Iwobi took his place.

The next season:
-- Ramsey, Iwobi, Monreal, Mhikytaryan, Koscielny all gone -- nearly 50% of our starting XI
-- LB that signed injured, and rarely played by the time he got the sack
-- Trying to fit Pepe into the team when he likely had a clearer plan for Zaha

Arteta has to deal with:
-- Dreadful, no-confidence football from Xhaka, Luiz and Mustafi
-- No creative CM
-- Massive drop in form for Lacazette (his G+A were crucial to our 18/19 season)

The next guy will face the problems created during Arteta's tenure:
-- What to do with Guendouzi when he returns
-- Possible Auba performance downturn
-- Uncertainty around contracts for Pepe, Saliba, Martinelli and AMN (players that Arteta doesn't seem to rate)
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