Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Angelito » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:17 am

Arteta wants another CB appaz.

I can see why. Mustafi will be off next summer. Luiz too. Chambers might leave too. Saliba sleeps with the fishes.

That leaves us with Gabriel, Holding, and Mari. However, what it doesn't rationalize is that we're about to buy our 8th defensive player in 2 years—5th under Arteta—whilst having spent eff all on creative midfielders or playmakers.

Care to recall another manager who's obsessed with hoarding defenders? Loldiola.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:56 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
The whole reason I wrote this post was in response to someone else demanding he play the kids.

Well that person (I presume KG3) is wrong. Most Arsenal fans can or should agree that, from our present batch of kids, only Martinelli and Saka have proved they are ready. Nelson has had plenty of chances and has been poor, as has Willock - playing a starring role against the equivalent of EL3 level teams is hardly an endorsement.
Last edited by theHotHead on Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:12 am

KG3 wrote:You don’t know that until they get a run of games though, some of them may hit the ground running like Fabregas and Martinelli or they could turn out to be slow learners like Song and Fabianski or they may turn out bad like Senderos and Bendtner. The fact is we won’t know until we actually play them, I’m not saying they should start in the prem but surely these guys should be getting minutes against Europa league teams and some cup games, if they excel in those games then play them in the league.

We do know, they have had a run of games, its the reason Martinelli and Saka are lauded by fans and why they get the games.

Slow learners ? Neither song or Fabianski had any place playing for the Arsenal first team, they were shit ! Song was appalling, Fabianski improved and finally looks like a decent keeper at West Ham, but look how long that took, are you suggesting we persist with kids for 7-10 years ?? Get real.

Look at Arsenal since Wenger, how many kids did we develop that you would call an absolute asset ? If I am being generous I will say Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Fabregas, Anelka, RVP, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I am honest and include those players that were developed by Arsenal that list becomes Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I remove the generosity I spoke of earlier - by only listing players that were truly Arsenal quality that list becomes Cole and Wilshere - and Wilshere many would argue shouldn't be on the list because he was inconsistent (due to injuries).

Developing kids that are simply mediocre and we have to sell them on is not a success of the academy, successes are players that come through the system and go on to have an Arsenal career. The list of rejected kids is long, too long. Our last batch of quality home-grown players were Michael Thomas, Paul Davis, David Rocastle, Tony Adams, Paul Merson, et al,over 30 fooking years ago !
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:15 am

Rayyo wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Rayyo wrote:everyone talks about giving youth a chance but with our fan base, would we really let them grow and develop?

it's all good saying give youth a chance but young players make mistakes and require patience.

you see how a player has one bad game for us and fans get on their back.

There is a right and wrong way to blood the kids in. First they have to be good enough, most of ours are not so they should go out on loan, the Arsenal first team is not the place for them to develop.

For the likes of Saka and Martinelli, they have the quality and should play regularly at Arsenal. They too will make mistakes but are at level where they will benefit the team despite those mistakes. Fans will give those 2 players a chance.


even the best young players will go through phases where their form will dip or they play badly.

with our fan base, they'll get crushed.

No they won't. Both Saka and Martinelli had periods when they did nothing but we acknowledged that a) they are only kids and b) its just a dip inform. They didn't get cricified by anyone.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:25 am

theHotHead wrote:
KG3 wrote:You don’t know that until they get a run of games though, some of them may hit the ground running like Fabregas and Martinelli or they could turn out to be slow learners like Song and Fabianski or they may turn out bad like Senderos and Bendtner. The fact is we won’t know until we actually play them, I’m not saying they should start in the prem but surely these guys should be getting minutes against Europa league teams and some cup games, if they excel in those games then play them in the league.

We do know, they have had a run of games, its the reason Martinelli and Saka are lauded by fans and why they get the games.

Slow learners ? Neither song or Fabianski had any place playing for the Arsenal first team, they were shit ! Song was appalling, Fabianski improved and finally looks like a decent keeper at West Ham, but look how long that took, are you suggesting we persist with kids for 7-10 years ?? Get real.

Look at Arsenal since Wenger, how many kids did we develop that you would call an absolute asset ? If I am being generous I will say Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Fabregas, Anelka, RVP, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I am honest and include those players that were developed by Arsenal that list becomes Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I remove the generosity I spoke of earlier - by only listing players that were truly Arsenal quality that list becomes Cole and Wilshere - and Wilshere many would argue shouldn't be on the list because he was inconsistent (due to injuries).

Developing kids that are simply mediocre and we have to sell them on is not a success of the academy, successes are players that come through the system and go on to have an Arsenal career. The list of rejected kids is long, too long. Our last batch of quality home-grown players were Michael Thomas, Paul Davis, David Rocastle, Tony Adams, Paul Merson, et al,over 30 fooking years ago !

Martin keown and ray parlour
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:29 am

The fans here won't have the patience for the kids still developing. It's hard not to be critical but sometimes it's just over the top.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:39 pm

https://arseblog.com/2020/11/episode-60 ... interlull/

Agreeing with a lot of what was said on this pod. Worrying signs.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby KG3 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:15 pm

theHotHead wrote:
KG3 wrote:You don’t know that until they get a run of games though, some of them may hit the ground running like Fabregas and Martinelli or they could turn out to be slow learners like Song and Fabianski or they may turn out bad like Senderos and Bendtner. The fact is we won’t know until we actually play them, I’m not saying they should start in the prem but surely these guys should be getting minutes against Europa league teams and some cup games, if they excel in those games then play them in the league.

We do know, they have had a run of games, its the reason Martinelli and Saka are lauded by fans and why they get the games.

Slow learners ? Neither song or Fabianski had any place playing for the Arsenal first team, they were shit ! Song was appalling, Fabianski improved and finally looks like a decent keeper at West Ham, but look how long that took, are you suggesting we persist with kids for 7-10 years ?? Get real.

Look at Arsenal since Wenger, how many kids did we develop that you would call an absolute asset ? If I am being generous I will say Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Fabregas, Anelka, RVP, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I am honest and include those players that were developed by Arsenal that list becomes Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I remove the generosity I spoke of earlier - by only listing players that were truly Arsenal quality that list becomes Cole and Wilshere - and Wilshere many would argue shouldn't be on the list because he was inconsistent (due to injuries).

Developing kids that are simply mediocre and we have to sell them on is not a success of the academy, successes are players that come through the system and go on to have an Arsenal career. The list of rejected kids is long, too long. Our last batch of quality home-grown players were Michael Thomas, Paul Davis, David Rocastle, Tony Adams, Paul Merson, et al,over 30 fooking years ago !


It’s not that deep man :lol:

Our record signing Pepe isn’t performing, Willian is bad, Martinelli is injured, Lacazette has been awful and Aubameyang needs to play upfront to be at his best. Theirs nothing wrong with giving youngsters a chance if the players above them have been bad Nelson has never had a run of games and that’s a fact, he plays a full game then dropped the next.

Doesn’t even need to start in the prem, cup competitions then super sub in the prem and if he’s doing well in that situation then start him as a regular.

If he ends up being another Gnabry I don’t want to hear you complaint that he was never given a chance.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:45 pm

theHotHead wrote:
KG3 wrote:You don’t know that until they get a run of games though, some of them may hit the ground running like Fabregas and Martinelli or they could turn out to be slow learners like Song and Fabianski or they may turn out bad like Senderos and Bendtner. The fact is we won’t know until we actually play them, I’m not saying they should start in the prem but surely these guys should be getting minutes against Europa league teams and some cup games, if they excel in those games then play them in the league.

We do know, they have had a run of games, its the reason Martinelli and Saka are lauded by fans and why they get the games.

Slow learners ? Neither song or Fabianski had any place playing for the Arsenal first team, they were shit ! Song was appalling, Fabianski improved and finally looks like a decent keeper at West Ham, but look how long that took, are you suggesting we persist with kids for 7-10 years ?? Get real.

Look at Arsenal since Wenger, how many kids did we develop that you would call an absolute asset ? If I am being generous I will say Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Fabregas, Anelka, RVP, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I am honest and include those players that were developed by Arsenal that list becomes Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I remove the generosity I spoke of earlier - by only listing players that were truly Arsenal quality that list becomes Cole and Wilshere - and Wilshere many would argue shouldn't be on the list because he was inconsistent (due to injuries).

Developing kids that are simply mediocre and we have to sell them on is not a success of the academy, successes are players that come through the system and go on to have an Arsenal career. The list of rejected kids is long, too long. Our last batch of quality home-grown players were Michael Thomas, Paul Davis, David Rocastle, Tony Adams, Paul Merson, et al,over 30 fooking years ago !

HH - times have changed drastically. The role of the academy has also changed. The likelihood of an academy player making it to a long term first team spot is about 1%. At the top end, it’s just too competitive to give kids a chance. Wenger recently said something interesting. He said you can’t afford to play a talented young defender because you know he has one or two mistakes in him that is going to cost you points. That means bringing through young players is always going to be a challenge. The academy of today for a club like Arsenal is a chance to make some money because these kids graduate with the Arsenal brand. It’s like having an Ivy League degree. It doesn’t mean you’ll succeed but companies will give you more of a look than others.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby KG3 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:52 pm

The biggest mistake the board made in recent years was not pushing out Wenger sooner and bringing in Klopp in 2015 we were a far more attractive team project wise.

If Wenger wasn’t so stubborn he could have recommended to the board that they get an agreement with klopp in place and he leaves at the end of the season.

Fast forward 3 years after Klopp joins liverpool and Wenger leaves they’re no exciting managers about we are left with average options.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:56 pm

Rayyo wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Rayyo wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Rayyo wrote:everyone talks about giving youth a chance but with our fan base, would we really let them grow and develop?

it's all good saying give youth a chance but young players make mistakes and require patience.

you see how a player has one bad game for us and fans get on their back.

There is a right and wrong way to blood the kids in. First they have to be good enough, most of ours are not so they should go out on loan, the Arsenal first team is not the place for them to develop.

For the likes of Saka and Martinelli, they have the quality and should play regularly at Arsenal. They too will make mistakes but are at level where they will benefit the team despite those mistakes. Fans will give those 2 players a chance.


even the best young players will go through phases where their form will dip or they play badly.

with our fan base, they'll get crushed.

No they won't. Both Saka and Martinelli had periods when they did nothing but we acknowledged that a) they are only kids and b) its just a dip inform. They didn't get cricified by anyone.


that's revisionism. i remember plenty jumping on martinelli's back.

Revisionism ?? There are 34 pages in the Martinelli thread, I have re-read up to page 17, the only criticisms of the player up to that point was BEFORE he had ever kicked a ball for us, by people annoyed that we bought a kid not an established star. I will continue reading to see just who is guilty of revisionism, myself or you.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:02 pm

At page 26 and the only criticisim came from Gooney who was going on about Arsenal fans always overrating players. I'll keep going .....
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:08 pm

As I suspected, it is YOU Rayyo that is guilty of revisionism. Not a single person complained about Martinelli after he began playing football for us apart from Gooney. From page 27 onwards Martinelli got injured and the discussion was about him signing contracts and leaving because he was not getting paid.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:13 pm

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
KG3 wrote:You don’t know that until they get a run of games though, some of them may hit the ground running like Fabregas and Martinelli or they could turn out to be slow learners like Song and Fabianski or they may turn out bad like Senderos and Bendtner. The fact is we won’t know until we actually play them, I’m not saying they should start in the prem but surely these guys should be getting minutes against Europa league teams and some cup games, if they excel in those games then play them in the league.

We do know, they have had a run of games, its the reason Martinelli and Saka are lauded by fans and why they get the games.

Slow learners ? Neither song or Fabianski had any place playing for the Arsenal first team, they were shit ! Song was appalling, Fabianski improved and finally looks like a decent keeper at West Ham, but look how long that took, are you suggesting we persist with kids for 7-10 years ?? Get real.

Look at Arsenal since Wenger, how many kids did we develop that you would call an absolute asset ? If I am being generous I will say Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Fabregas, Anelka, RVP, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I am honest and include those players that were developed by Arsenal that list becomes Cole, Clichy, Ramsey, Walcott, Bellerin, Wilshere. If I remove the generosity I spoke of earlier - by only listing players that were truly Arsenal quality that list becomes Cole and Wilshere - and Wilshere many would argue shouldn't be on the list because he was inconsistent (due to injuries).

Developing kids that are simply mediocre and we have to sell them on is not a success of the academy, successes are players that come through the system and go on to have an Arsenal career. The list of rejected kids is long, too long. Our last batch of quality home-grown players were Michael Thomas, Paul Davis, David Rocastle, Tony Adams, Paul Merson, et al,over 30 fooking years ago !

HH - times have changed drastically. The role of the academy has also changed. The likelihood of an academy player making it to a long term first team spot is about 1%. At the top end, it’s just too competitive to give kids a chance. Wenger recently said something interesting. He said you can’t afford to play a talented young defender because you know he has one or two mistakes in him that is going to cost you points. That means bringing through young players is always going to be a challenge. The academy of today for a club like Arsenal is a chance to make some money because these kids graduate with the Arsenal brand. It’s like having an Ivy League degree. It doesn’t mean you’ll succeed but companies will give you more of a look than others.

Fair point, I take that onboard that the Academy is now there to sell on players.

Regarding Wenger's comment about taking a risk playing a young defender in case they make mistakes, can anyone explain why we had calamity defenfders and keepers for so long if thats the case, every single one of them were established and adults.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:48 pm

KG3 wrote:The biggest mistake the board made in recent years was not pushing out Wenger sooner and bringing in Klopp in 2015 we were a far more attractive team project wise.

If Wenger wasn’t so stubborn he could have recommended to the board that they get an agreement with klopp in place and he leaves at the end of the season.

Fast forward 3 years after Klopp joins liverpool and Wenger leaves they’re no exciting managers about we are left with average options.


Let's face it, Wenger stayed way way too long as as you rightly point out we missed out on a host of managers in that time and ended up with Emery and then Arteta.

If it wasn't clear at the beginning, it is clear now that Arteta isn't the answer, he's way too negative which is basically how he's made us concede less because we've got attackers as well as the rest of the team defending, tactically he's clueless, he's guilty of favouritism and he's willing to rely on sub standard players like Xhaka, Mustafi, Luiz, he actually encourages the board to offer players like them new contracts. He also lacks any kind of forward thinking on vision, this nonsense about him being the next Klopp is precisely that, there's no chance he just doesn't have the talent, he'd never managed before he arrived so it was very odd indeed to bring him in before at least seeing how he gets on at a smaller club first.

Anyway, we're stuck with him now, the big question is how long the board stick with him, will we be in the same position in a few years?
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