Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:18 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Özim wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
ag6789 wrote:How well has tried and trusted Anchelotti done so far at Everton? Nothing great so far.
At least we look compact. Problem is injuries and suspensions have robbed Arteta of important resources at this critical time.
We all know that the midfield needs to be bolstered and a defensive addition would be welcome, but that's more to do with the owners than Arteta at this point, I think.


Everton have picked up 10 points from a possible 15. We've picked up 6 from a possible 15. Arteta and Ancelotti started on the same day. So far Everton have lost one, drawn one and won three. Ancelotti is off to a better start. We've won one game, lost one and drawn three since Arteta arrived. Performances are better but the results aren't.


Ancelotti has done better than Arteta, that's not in doubt, 3 wins compared to 1, Everton were below us as well so noone can claim he had a better team. Arteta was a big risk, it's early days but so far it's not really working well, as usual people are making excuses (seems to be ingrained in the culture of some of the fans nowadays, its always someone elses fault).


I'm a little worried. The performances are better compared to what we saw under Emery but it's still not an improvement on Wenger. I just hope the results start to come on our way. Chelsea on Tuesday.

Yes they are, they are a definite improvement over Wenger !! We were fooking shite under Wenger. I think people forget just how bad we were !!!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:20 pm

elkanofan wrote:I still think despite the clear signs this was a dreadfully bad appointment I am 100% behind arteta as i see good potential in him.

I think we could get back into the champions league with him if we make the right signings and he will become a much better manager than what you see with Lampard for example.

I firmly see it as the club has a shit unbalanced midfield and whatever Arteta tries he's compromised with a poor midfield and he need to be backed properly now which he isn't.

Interested to know why if Arteta was a dreadfully bad appointment you see good potential in him. Surely thats a total contradiction ?!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:29 pm

Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


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Take the average of Unai's last 5 games, you speng. Unai - 1.218. Arteta - 1.262. AND - averaging out xGs is not what PnG's comment is about. Its about having a greater xG than the opposing team in any given game and games under Arteta we are having a higher xG than the opponents more often - hence PnG's comment.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:30 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Özim wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
ag6789 wrote:How well has tried and trusted Anchelotti done so far at Everton? Nothing great so far.
At least we look compact. Problem is injuries and suspensions have robbed Arteta of important resources at this critical time.
We all know that the midfield needs to be bolstered and a defensive addition would be welcome, but that's more to do with the owners than Arteta at this point, I think.


Everton have picked up 10 points from a possible 15. We've picked up 6 from a possible 15. Arteta and Ancelotti started on the same day. So far Everton have lost one, drawn one and won three. Ancelotti is off to a better start. We've won one game, lost one and drawn three since Arteta arrived. Performances are better but the results aren't.


Ancelotti has done better than Arteta, that's not in doubt, 3 wins compared to 1, Everton were below us as well so noone can claim he had a better team. Arteta was a big risk, it's early days but so far it's not really working well, as usual people are making excuses (seems to be ingrained in the culture of some of the fans nowadays, its always someone elses fault).

How much would you like to bet that Arsenal finish above Everton ?!!!


I'm not betting against my team. Conflict of interests. But these are the facts. Heck, even if we look at xG compared over the last 5 Prem games Everton have done better. They've jumped from 15th to 11th and can pull ahead of us tomorrow if they win and we lose or draw. I know it doesn't take much to move up the table but we're struggling to make it higher than 10th and they were ahead of us a short while ago.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby elkanofan » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:57 pm

theHotHead wrote:
elkanofan wrote:I still think despite the clear signs this was a dreadfully bad appointment I am 100% behind arteta as i see good potential in him.

I think we could get back into the champions league with him if we make the right signings and he will become a much better manager than what you see with Lampard for example.

I firmly see it as the club has a shit unbalanced midfield and whatever Arteta tries he's compromised with a poor midfield and he need to be backed properly now which he isn't.

Interested to know why if Arteta was a dreadfully bad appointment you see good potential in him. Surely thats a total contradiction ?!


Because we should of gone for a more experienced manager like Ancelotti to steady the ship for at least a season before taking such a risk. This is not looking like a good appointment right now.

Since we are suck with Arteta from the 6 games so far I see potential in Arteta for his own career however for us at this time it seems like its too soon, too early for him to sort out all our issues. We should of waited another 2 years at least after Arteta had his first job so at least he had some form of experience under his belt especially in making big decisions on player ins and outs. Right now he shown this already with keeping Xhaka which is a very idealistic decision for me, an experienced manager would of just sold him from knowing the negative effects of trying to deal with players who have already given up on the club.
Last edited by elkanofan on Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby elkanofan » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:02 pm

Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


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Expected goals is the most useless stat i have ever seen created and a example of the nonsense thrown into the modern game by the sake of spreadsheet people who want an excuse for a raise.

I don't care how wonderfully created and intelligence the algorithm is, it useless!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Dejan » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:14 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

Take the average of Unai's last 5 games, you speng. Unai - 1.218. Arteta - 1.262. AND - averaging out xGs is not what PnG's comment is about. Its about having a greater xG than the opposing team in any given game and games under Arteta we are having a higher xG than the opponents more often - hence PnG's comment.


Why would you? Population size does not have to be equal, you "speng". Only taking the last 5 of unai is just manipulating statistics.

Under unai this season we have had a higher Xg goals than arteta. This cant be twisted, its a fact.

The only stat that matters though is the pts/game. Im interested to know that ratio of both managers.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:21 pm

Dejan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

Take the average of Unai's last 5 games, you speng. Unai - 1.218. Arteta - 1.262. AND - averaging out xGs is not what PnG's comment is about. Its about having a greater xG than the opposing team in any given game and games under Arteta we are having a higher xG than the opponents more often - hence PnG's comment.


Why would you? Population size does not have to be equal, you "speng". Only taking the last 5 of unai is just manipulating statistics.

Under unai this season we have had a higher Xg goals than arteta. This cant be twisted, its a fact.

The only stat that matters though is the pts/game. Im interested to know that ratio of both managers.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk



But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Marsbar100 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:24 pm

Arguing over the Xg stat, time for the forum to go Into liquidation
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Özim » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:25 pm

StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ratio over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying our team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we have more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.
Last edited by Özim on Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:29 pm

Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ration over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying out team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we are more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.




Right it could be a negative comparison as well, but either way, you're not making the comparison equal because Arteta simply hasn't managed enough.

Again though, it's just another useless stat that only makes it easier to confuse the illogical minded folks.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:30 pm

Marsbar100 wrote:Arguing over the Xg stat, time for the forum to go Into liquidation



At least it's something new, instead of the ole agenda based arguments. :biggrin:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Özim » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:34 pm

StLGooner wrote:
Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ration over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying out team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we are more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.


Right it could be a negative comparison as well, but either way, you're not making the comparison equal because Arteta simply hasn't managed enough.

Again though, it's just another useless stat that only makes it easier to confuse the illogical minded folks.


I don't disagree, but what noone can disagree about is 6 points from 15, that's 40% of points on offer that we've got and that's not even playing any real top teams other than maybe Chelsea, that's a poor return, there's no doubt about it.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:39 pm

Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ration over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying out team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we are more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.


Right it could be a negative comparison as well, but either way, you're not making the comparison equal because Arteta simply hasn't managed enough.

Again though, it's just another useless stat that only makes it easier to confuse the illogical minded folks.


I don't disagree, but what noone can disagree about is 6 points from 15, that's 40% of points on offer that we've got and that's not even playing any real top teams other than maybe Chelsea, that's a poor return, there's no doubt about it.



Well duh, but not the point at the moment.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:04 pm

StLGooner wrote:
Dejan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

Take the average of Unai's last 5 games, you speng. Unai - 1.218. Arteta - 1.262. AND - averaging out xGs is not what PnG's comment is about. Its about having a greater xG than the opposing team in any given game and games under Arteta we are having a higher xG than the opponents more often - hence PnG's comment.


Why would you? Population size does not have to be equal, you "speng". Only taking the last 5 of unai is just manipulating statistics.

Under unai this season we have had a higher Xg goals than arteta. This cant be twisted, its a fact.

The only stat that matters though is the pts/game. Im interested to know that ratio of both managers.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk



But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Agreed. Looking at averages won't work. Also, when I'm looking at the xG and stats, I'm also looking at the fact that we've reduced the amount of chances teams are creating against us. The stats back up what I've concerning our improved defensive structure. It's far from perfect but instead of looking completely vulnerable and open, it's now more so a case the one odd lapse in concentration that's costing us instead of complete systematic failure.
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