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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:26 pm
by jayramfootball
Power n Glory wrote:
Jedi wrote:
ag6789 wrote:Think we have enough fire power right now. Once we stop conceding stupid goals, things will improve dramatically. That's the current focus.

Our defensive record was the 3rd best in the league last season. Now go ahead and check goals scored and compare them to any season with AW.


Exactly. I think we were 8th in terms of goals but someone can fact check that.


Joint 9th... but then that was down to the horrendous start we had.
Once ESR came in we were 3rd from that point - still not scoring enough though.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:38 pm
by ag6789
Because Auba malfunctioned last season . Otherwise we're pretty potent. Hopefully the young guns will take up the scoring responsibility this time.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:38 pm
by Angelito
Power n Glory wrote:Saka is one of our most promising players but he's not our best yet. I'd agree with you if we were moving a player that has shown he can score 20-30 goals a season or 15 to 20 assists but that isn't the case yet. He's been just as good wherever he has played but he hasn't yet shown an eye for goal or the type of player that kills opponents with relentless killer passes.


This is a good point.

Saka has huge potential but we have been overlooking some aspects of his game since he is too young, which is only fair.

His main strength is his versatility. He carries the ball forward and can take on defenders. He also tracks back and helps defensively. However, his best performances have come as a LB or a wing-back. As a winger, he doesn't have elite dribbling skills yet. He doesn't have a final ball, nor is he a decent finisher.

Let's not forget that Saka can be anonymous in games. He didn't have a good end to the season, and during that atrocious run, he was inconsistent (before ESR popped up). In his defense, it's not out of the norm for young players to go missing in games.

I wouldn't mind if we deployed Saka as a LB, with a front three of Martinelli - Laca/Auba - Pepe. Martinelli on the left would also help Auba if he starts as a CF. With Pepe on the left and Saka on the right, Auba won't be able to produce meaningful numbers. That front-three wouldn't be balanced enough.

Usually, lack of consistency is a hallmark of young players, especially those below 21/22. I'm not too worried. What does concern me is how he's close to being burdened as our star player at such a young age. Make no mistake, Saka isn't like Cesc or Rooney, who were world-beaters by the time they were 18. Likewise, another young prodigy like Pogba got to play alongside Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Chiellini, Bonucci, Buffon, etc., from a young age. Saka doesn't have any such player to look up to.

Our midfield and attack, both, are lopsided. It was last season and this summer, so far, we haven't addressed it. We've signed Tavares, a LB, and Lokonga—another youngster who appears to be more of a DM. We're about to sign another CB as well in Ben White. It really bothers me that we've signed 5 defenders since Arteta arrived (counting White), 1 goalkeeper, 2 defensive midfielders, and a solitary winger (Willian). That's 8 dsfsnsive signings out of 9 when we're crying out loud for creativity, and fluidity in attack.

But I digress.

It would be unfair on Saka and ESR if, once again, we have to rely on the two after spending big money in the summer.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:52 pm
by jayramfootball
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Saka is one of our most promising players but he's not our best yet. I'd agree with you if we were moving a player that has shown he can score 20-30 goals a season or 15 to 20 assists but that isn't the case yet. He's been just as good wherever he has played but he hasn't yet shown an eye for goal or the type of player that kills opponents with relentless killer passes.


This is a good point.

Saka has huge potential but we have been overlooking some aspects of his game since he is too young, which is only fair.

His main strength is his versatility. He carries the ball forward and can take on defenders. He also tracks back and helps defensively. However, his best performances have come as a LB or a wing-back. As a winger, he doesn't have elite dribbling skills yet. He doesn't have a final ball, nor is he a decent finisher.

Let's not forget that Saka can be anonymous in games. He didn't have a good end to the season, and during that atrocious run, he was inconsistent (before ESR popped up). In his defense, it's not out of the norm for young players to go missing in games.

I wouldn't mind if we deployed Saka as a LB, with a front three of Martinelli - Laca/Auba - Pepe. Martinelli on the left would also help Auba if he starts as a CF. With Pepe on the left and Saka on the right, Auba won't be able to produce meaningful numbers. That front-three wouldn't be balanced enough.

Usually, lack of consistency is a hallmark of young players, especially those below 21/22. I'm not too worried. What does concern me is how he's close to being burdened as our star player at such a young age. Make no mistake, Saka isn't like Cesc or Rooney, who were world-beaters by the time they were 18. Likewise, another young prodigy like Pogba got to play alongside Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Chiellini, Bonucci, Buffon, etc., from a young age. Saka doesn't have any such player to look up to.

Our midfield and attack, both, are lopsided. It was last season and this summer, so far, we haven't addressed it. We've signed Tavares, a LB, and Lokonga—another youngster who appears to be more of a DM. We're about to sign another CB as well in Ben White. It really bothers me that we've signed 5 defenders since Arteta arrived (counting White), 1 goalkeeper, 2 defensive midfielders, and a solitary winger (Willian). That's 8 dsfsnsive signings out of 9 when we're crying out loud for creativity, and fluidity in attack.

But I digress.

It would be unfair on Saka and ESR if, once again, we have to rely on the two after spending big money in the summer.


Saka is already a world-class star. His age doesn't really matter.
Some players just hit the ground running and he is one of them. He's fearless. Hardly any player is a world-beater in every game.
Saka's ability to retain the ball, beat players and drive at defences is invaluable now - we need it.
Starting him at FB would be an awful decision.

Whether ESR and Saka want to be the star players, who knows, but they are.
The team should be built around them, not the other way around.

Under no circumstances should be fitting the team around older players who failed in the past and are not part of our future anyway.
Nothing is going to suddenly change to make Saka more ready (or ESR).
I don't see the need to waste time.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:53 pm
by DiamondGooner
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Saka is one of our most promising players but he's not our best yet. I'd agree with you if we were moving a player that has shown he can score 20-30 goals a season or 15 to 20 assists but that isn't the case yet. He's been just as good wherever he has played but he hasn't yet shown an eye for goal or the type of player that kills opponents with relentless killer passes.


This is a good point.

Saka has huge potential but we have been overlooking some aspects of his game since he is too young, which is only fair.

His main strength is his versatility. He carries the ball forward and can take on defenders. He also tracks back and helps defensively. However, his best performances have come as a LB or a wing-back. As a winger, he doesn't have elite dribbling skills yet. He doesn't have a final ball, nor is he a decent finisher.

Let's not forget that Saka can be anonymous in games. He didn't have a good end to the season, and during that atrocious run, he was inconsistent (before ESR popped up). In his defense, it's not out of the norm for young players to go missing in games.

I wouldn't mind if we deployed Saka as a LB, with a front three of Martinelli - Laca/Auba - Pepe. Martinelli on the left would also help Auba if he starts as a CF. With Pepe on the left and Saka on the right, Auba won't be able to produce meaningful numbers. That front-three wouldn't be balanced enough.

Usually, lack of consistency is a hallmark of young players, especially those below 21/22. I'm not too worried. What does concern me is how he's close to being burdened as our star player at such a young age. Make no mistake, Saka isn't like Cesc or Rooney, who were world-beaters by the time they were 18. Likewise, another young prodigy like Pogba got to play alongside Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Chiellini, Bonucci, Buffon, etc., from a young age. Saka doesn't have any such player to look up to.

Our midfield and attack, both, are lopsided. It was last season and this summer, so far, we haven't addressed it. We've signed Tavares, a LB, and Lokonga—another youngster who appears to be more of a DM. We're about to sign another CB as well in Ben White. It really bothers me that we've signed 5 defenders since Arteta arrived (counting White), 1 goalkeeper, 2 defensive midfielders, and a solitary winger (Willian). That's 8 dsfsnsive signings out of 9 when we're crying out loud for creativity, and fluidity in attack.

But I digress.

It would be unfair on Saka and ESR if, once again, we have to rely on the two after spending big money in the summer.



^^

I was saying this about Saka months ago, end product, its not there in high amounts which hurts his overall value as a player.

I'm sure this will improve, he's only 19 but some fancy dribbling with nothing on the end of it is like a Pepe when he's having a bad game.

Assists and goals win games, that's what the best players have in their locker.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:03 pm
by DiamondGooner
jayramfootball wrote:Saka is already a world-class star. His age doesn't really matter.


Rubbish.

Its this type of hyperbole that makes us as a club a laughing stock, we over praise players.

He is not world class .......... young Ronaldhino was WC, Mbappe is WC, Neymar is WC, Messi is WC.

I don't know what your talking about, in fact how can you be a WC winger without end product which is exactly what we're discussing above.

Your standards have dropped so far down you can't even tell what WC is anymore.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:15 pm
by jayramfootball
DiamondGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Saka is already a world-class star. His age doesn't really matter.


Rubbish.

Its this type of hyperbole that makes us as a club a laughing stock, we over praise players.

He is not world class .......... young Ronaldhino was WC, Mbappe is WC, Neymar is WC, Messi is WC.

I don't know what your talking about, in fact how can you be a WC winger without end product which is exactly what we're discussing above.

Your standards have dropped so far down you can't even tell what WC is anymore.


Saka already has end product.
If world-class means Messi level - well no, he isn't.
Depend on your definition.
We just had the Euro's - Saka was amongst the stand out players.

As for hyperbole - it's the other way round.
Too many over rate the big transfer high PR players.

I mean Neymar? F**k off with that.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:20 pm
by Power n Glory
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Saka is one of our most promising players but he's not our best yet. I'd agree with you if we were moving a player that has shown he can score 20-30 goals a season or 15 to 20 assists but that isn't the case yet. He's been just as good wherever he has played but he hasn't yet shown an eye for goal or the type of player that kills opponents with relentless killer passes.


This is a good point.

Saka has huge potential but we have been overlooking some aspects of his game since he is too young, which is only fair.

His main strength is his versatility. He carries the ball forward and can take on defenders. He also tracks back and helps defensively. However, his best performances have come as a LB or a wing-back. As a winger, he doesn't have elite dribbling skills yet. He doesn't have a final ball, nor is he a decent finisher.

Let's not forget that Saka can be anonymous in games. He didn't have a good end to the season, and during that atrocious run, he was inconsistent (before ESR popped up). In his defense, it's not out of the norm for young players to go missing in games.

I wouldn't mind if we deployed Saka as a LB, with a front three of Martinelli - Laca/Auba - Pepe. Martinelli on the left would also help Auba if he starts as a CF. With Pepe on the left and Saka on the right, Auba won't be able to produce meaningful numbers. That front-three wouldn't be balanced enough.

Usually, lack of consistency is a hallmark of young players, especially those below 21/22. I'm not too worried. What does concern me is how he's close to being burdened as our star player at such a young age. Make no mistake, Saka isn't like Cesc or Rooney, who were world-beaters by the time they were 18. Likewise, another young prodigy like Pogba got to play alongside Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Chiellini, Bonucci, Buffon, etc., from a young age. Saka doesn't have any such player to look up to.

Our midfield and attack, both, are lopsided. It was last season and this summer, so far, we haven't addressed it. We've signed Tavares, a LB, and Lokonga—another youngster who appears to be more of a DM. We're about to sign another CB as well in Ben White. It really bothers me that we've signed 5 defenders since Arteta arrived (counting White), 1 goalkeeper, 2 defensive midfielders, and a solitary winger (Willian). That's 8 dsfsnsive signings out of 9 when we're crying out loud for creativity, and fluidity in attack.

But I digress.

It would be unfair on Saka and ESR if, once again, we have to rely on the two after spending big money in the summer.


Yeah, Saka is a good all round player but I'm not yet convinced about him being a winger and regular goal scorer. Anything can happen but I feel we have better players for the forward roles at the moment. If he develops a taste for goals then it'd something to work on because I remember Cesc just one day banging in a load of goals from midfield when it didn't even look like he could hit the ball with much power a season before.

Formation wise, some of our best games under Unai were when he played the 3-5-2 with Lacazette and Auba starting. That season they combined to score a total of 50 goals. I think we've missed a trick here. I also think Saka has helped the left winger flourish and score more when we have played a 3 man front line.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:42 pm
by theHotHead
jayramfootball wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Saka is already a world-class star. His age doesn't really matter.


Rubbish.

Its this type of hyperbole that makes us as a club a laughing stock, we over praise players.

He is not world class .......... young Ronaldhino was WC, Mbappe is WC, Neymar is WC, Messi is WC.

I don't know what your talking about, in fact how can you be a WC winger without end product which is exactly what we're discussing above.

Your standards have dropped so far down you can't even tell what WC is anymore.


Saka already has end product.
If world-class means Messi level - well no, he isn't.
Depend on your definition.
We just had the Euro's - Saka was amongst the stand out players.

As for hyperbole - it's the other way round.
Too many over rate the big transfer high PR players.

I mean Neymar? F**k off with that.

Jay, if Sterling isn't world class (because he isn't) there is no way Saka is !!!

Totally agree with the analysis that Saka needs more end product, its not there yet, but its coming. For a player his age for us to even be levelling the criticism that we are levelling at him tells you he is miles ahead of other kids his age, miles ahead !!

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:07 pm
by Özim
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Saka is one of our most promising players but he's not our best yet. I'd agree with you if we were moving a player that has shown he can score 20-30 goals a season or 15 to 20 assists but that isn't the case yet. He's been just as good wherever he has played but he hasn't yet shown an eye for goal or the type of player that kills opponents with relentless killer passes.


This is a good point.

Saka has huge potential but we have been overlooking some aspects of his game since he is too young, which is only fair.

His main strength is his versatility. He carries the ball forward and can take on defenders. He also tracks back and helps defensively. However, his best performances have come as a LB or a wing-back. As a winger, he doesn't have elite dribbling skills yet. He doesn't have a final ball, nor is he a decent finisher.

Let's not forget that Saka can be anonymous in games. He didn't have a good end to the season, and during that atrocious run, he was inconsistent (before ESR popped up). In his defense, it's not out of the norm for young players to go missing in games.

I wouldn't mind if we deployed Saka as a LB, with a front three of Martinelli - Laca/Auba - Pepe. Martinelli on the left would also help Auba if he starts as a CF. With Pepe on the left and Saka on the right, Auba won't be able to produce meaningful numbers. That front-three wouldn't be balanced enough.

Usually, lack of consistency is a hallmark of young players, especially those below 21/22. I'm not too worried. What does concern me is how he's close to being burdened as our star player at such a young age. Make no mistake, Saka isn't like Cesc or Rooney, who were world-beaters by the time they were 18. Likewise, another young prodigy like Pogba got to play alongside Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Chiellini, Bonucci, Buffon, etc., from a young age. Saka doesn't have any such player to look up to.

Our midfield and attack, both, are lopsided. It was last season and this summer, so far, we haven't addressed it. We've signed Tavares, a LB, and Lokonga—another youngster who appears to be more of a DM. We're about to sign another CB as well in Ben White. It really bothers me that we've signed 5 defenders since Arteta arrived (counting White), 1 goalkeeper, 2 defensive midfielders, and a solitary winger (Willian). That's 8 dsfsnsive signings out of 9 when we're crying out loud for creativity, and fluidity in attack.

But I digress.

It would be unfair on Saka and ESR if, once again, we have to rely on the two after spending big money in the summer.


There’s a reason 8 out of our 9 signings have been defensive, Arteta is defensive, you could see this from the off, park the bus and get the plaudits for improving our defence whilst destroying our attack.

Our attack was dreadful in most matches last season, that’s not really down to the players, it’s down to the horrible system Arteta plays which hinders our attack.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:55 pm
by swipe right
jayramfootball wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Saka is already a world-class star. His age doesn't really matter.


Rubbish.

Its this type of hyperbole that makes us as a club a laughing stock, we over praise players.

He is not world class .......... young Ronaldhino was WC, Mbappe is WC, Neymar is WC, Messi is WC.

I don't know what your talking about, in fact how can you be a WC winger without end product which is exactly what we're discussing above.

Your standards have dropped so far down you can't even tell what WC is anymore.


Saka already has end product.
If world-class means Messi level - well no, he isn't.
Depend on your definition.
We just had the Euro's - Saka was amongst the stand out players.

As for hyperbole - it's the other way round.
Too many over rate the big transfer high PR players.

I mean Neymar? F**k off with that.

Neymar is not world class? Wot?

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:40 am
by Ach
Don't forget varane is only rated cos he's good in FIFA and FM whilst White is good in real life

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:59 am
by Nuggets
WTF has all this got to do with the clown????

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:25 am
by themessiah
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Saka is one of our most promising players but he's not our best yet. I'd agree with you if we were moving a player that has shown he can score 20-30 goals a season or 15 to 20 assists but that isn't the case yet. He's been just as good wherever he has played but he hasn't yet shown an eye for goal or the type of player that kills opponents with relentless killer passes.


This is a good point.

Saka has huge potential but we have been overlooking some aspects of his game since he is too young, which is only fair.

His main strength is his versatility. He carries the ball forward and can take on defenders. He also tracks back and helps defensively. However, his best performances have come as a LB or a wing-back. As a winger, he doesn't have elite dribbling skills yet. He doesn't have a final ball, nor is he a decent finisher.

Let's not forget that Saka can be anonymous in games. He didn't have a good end to the season, and during that atrocious run, he was inconsistent (before ESR popped up). In his defense, it's not out of the norm for young players to go missing in games.

I wouldn't mind if we deployed Saka as a LB, with a front three of Martinelli - Laca/Auba - Pepe. Martinelli on the left would also help Auba if he starts as a CF. With Pepe on the left and Saka on the right, Auba won't be able to produce meaningful numbers. That front-three wouldn't be balanced enough.

Usually, lack of consistency is a hallmark of young players, especially those below 21/22. I'm not too worried. What does concern me is how he's close to being burdened as our star player at such a young age. Make no mistake, Saka isn't like Cesc or Rooney, who were world-beaters by the time they were 18. Likewise, another young prodigy like Pogba got to play alongside Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Chiellini, Bonucci, Buffon, etc., from a young age. Saka doesn't have any such player to look up to.

Our midfield and attack, both, are lopsided. It was last season and this summer, so far, we haven't addressed it. We've signed Tavares, a LB, and Lokonga—another youngster who appears to be more of a DM. We're about to sign another CB as well in Ben White. It really bothers me that we've signed 5 defenders since Arteta arrived (counting White), 1 goalkeeper, 2 defensive midfielders, and a solitary winger (Willian). That's 8 dsfsnsive signings out of 9 when we're crying out loud for creativity, and fluidity in attack.

But I digress.

It would be unfair on Saka and ESR if, once again, we have to rely on the two after spending big money in the summer.

Saka stil young and can work on his finishing. You guys are making it out like he is f***ing Alex Iwobi. The kid is a class player Saka is in a different class than Iwobi was at that age. Saka is complete. Has one of the best crossing technique in the league, top-notch creativity. Only lacks top shooting technique. I don't agree with you on any of these. The kid is more of a creator than a goal scorer. Anyways .Always usually makes the right decisions on the pitch. His assist record since he broke though is pretty good.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:05 am
by theHotHead
∆∆ think you have your knickers in a twist over nothing mate. Saka has a way to go before he is world class, but his current level is top class, thats some praise for a young kid who just broke into the first team!

Stop being so sensitive