Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Oct 25, 2024 4:30 pm

ag6789 wrote:Because of the possibility of injuries we have expanded the squad. More defenders have been brought in, more midfielders ( Merino brought in, Nwaneri, Skelly being promoted) are included, additions in forward line, etc.
Players like ESR, Nktiah, Nelson been with the first team for 4-5 yrs, had sporadic success, but not been consistent. Besides,both ESR and Nelson been injury prone, and overall ( all 3) fallen behind the newcomers. They are good players but couldn't break into the first team consistently, hence went elsewhere ( better career moves).
Nelson fell way behind Saka, ESR couldn't compete with Martinelli Trossard and Havertz, Nktiah remained a 3rd choice striker ( Havertz overtook him and Jesus).
Now,with injuries to key players cropping up , it'll be a test of endurance for the team. Let's see how the newcomers and youngsters fare in this difficult phase.

With all the strengthening you are taking about the team was still left with arguably 2 of the most important positions having a clear single point of failure. If we lose Havertz we are f***ked, Jesus is a shit replacement. If we lost Odegaard we all knew we would be f***ked. Arteta strengthened the hell out of the DM and defensive positions, why ?!!!!

Explain the logic in us having Calafiori, Zinchenko and Tierney - not to mention Lewis-Skelly and Timber as all players that can play in thee LB position !!! Why do we need so many ? The right side has White and Timber, perfect, Partey has been filling in at RB. Look at the imbalance of numbers on the left versus the right.

We have Partey, Rice, Jorginho and Merino as well as Lewis-Skelly that can all be called bonafide DMs. Why ??? Why do we need so many players for that position ??? None of them can play the offensive role. Again, there is no balance.

We have Saka and Saka alone that can play the RWF role well, Sterling, Trossard, Martinelli are all suited to playing off the Left side. So again, there is that squad imbalance.

And of course we have up too where frankly if ?I see anyone but Havertz there I know we are going to be shit !

So explain the point of all this strengthening because it looks to me like Arteta is clueless at building a squad.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Oct 25, 2024 4:49 pm

alexis2015finalgoal wrote:
theHotHead wrote:So your argument is ruthlessness is part of thee game and is normal and should be accepted ?!

Bullcrap !

When Wenger did the same and it led to the early break up of the Invincibles tell me how that benefited the club ?!! Was that decision best for the club ? Hell no ! When Wenger ruthlessly decided to use the socialist pay structure and not buy big name players, tell me how that benefited the club ?! Arteta has been ruthless and now we are struggling as a result, how on earth is that for the betterment of Arsenal football club ?!


The invicinles was growing old. Vieira, Pires, Ljungberg and Henry all left in their 30s. Bergkamp retired at 36. Keown played until he was 38. Ljungberg played in the first Emirates season, as did Henry. Gilberto was a regular until 07/08. I don't see how that's being ruthless, since players age. Campbell left in 2006, and Toure left in 2009. Cole went to Chelsea for more money and Lauren left in 2007. Getting rid of ageing players isn't ruthlessness, it's normal management. Wenger's fault was he didn't replace them with players of equivalent mentality and physicality. THey had ability, but Hleb, Rosicky, etc. were mentally weak.
Ruthlessness IS part of the game, at the elite level. Any player at the elite level will tell you that. My point fully stands.
Though you ignore how well Raya is doing. He made mistakes at the start, but has kept many clean sheets this season sans mistakes. So Arteta's ruthlessness in building a better side has benefits then.

Literally the only old players were Bergkamp and Lehmann who were over 30 ! Man City did the quadruple or whatever it was with Kyle Walker aged 32, KDB aged 31, Gundogan aged 31 and Mahrez aged 31 !

They had Emerson aged 28, John Stones, Cancelo and Laporte all aged 28, all off the players listed were key players for Guardiola !

Lauren was 27 when he left, Cole was 23, Ljungberg was 27, Gilberto was 27 and Pires was 30 ! It was a stupid decision from Wenger which all stemmed from us getting beat in the CL final, Wenger wanted to play like Barca and turned us into Barca Lite, lots of small technical players but no fight/steel.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Oct 25, 2024 4:53 pm

alexis2015finalgoal wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
alexis2015finalgoal wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
alexis2015finalgoal wrote:Footballers and managers have the expectation, or should, that it's a ruthless business.
People can whine about Ramsdale's handling. But Ramsdale got in the side the same way, as he replaced Leno.
Wenger was ruthless with players, such as Adebayor. It's how shit rolls at the top level of sport!

Ruthlessness to the detriment of the team is called reckless stupidity !

Raya has paid off, hasn't it? The same "bad" ruthlessness.

Sterling was signed to back-up Saka. We have good depth up top as it stands, with roughly two players for each of the three positions.

Raya was a calculated gamble which paid off, Raya is much better than Ramsdale with distribution, its only THIS season though that we are seeing match winning saves from Raya.

Gambling that Odegaard wouldn't get injured was reckless stupidity !


You have a selective memory or you cherry pick stuff to suit your points.

Replacing Raya for Ramsdale was classically ruthless. Ramsdale was doing well but then he thought Raya would do better. And so far, it's paying off. Raya won the Golden Glove and has had very few mistakes this season compared to last.

Odegaard getting injured has little to do with him being ruthless. Or why it was "unfair" to let ESR go. Who is to say ESR wanted to go? Fans who are saying we "betrayed" a Hale-Ender don't know the truth. We should only have loyalty to youth products who can add value or propel us. We've let Andy Cole go in the past, and like ESR he coudln't get a look-in as we had Wright, Smith, late Campbell, etc. Shit happens. Man United let David Platt go. He may have been mid for us but then he hardly had a shit career overall.

Not cherry picking anything.

Raya was brought in - he didn't get rid of Ramsdale - they both fought for the no1 jersey.

Arteta got rid of the only experienced players that could reasonably be thought could cover Odegaard (Vieira and ESR). You don't assemble a squad and leave no cover for key players, thats stupidity beyond belief. If Arteta told ESR he figured in his plans he wouldn't have left, he is Arsenal through and through.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby alexis2015finalgoal » Fri Oct 25, 2024 5:04 pm

Is the point here ruthlessness or Arteta's bad squad-building?

ESR left, that's that. He wasn't going to get consistent starts. Raya was brought in as the number one, which he became and still is. He made it look like he could have "two starting keepers" but this was BS and a hair-brained scheme. We could all read between the lines and see that Raya was the intended number one.
ESR isn't a number 10 and was a wide forward in his balling days, with Odegaard as the number 10.

His plans for forwards were limited. Saka picks himself. ESR isn't a striker so can't play at number 9. and he already had Martinelli as a left wide forward and a back-up number 9. And he signed Trossard in 2023. ESR had to go.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Oct 25, 2024 5:30 pm

alexis2015finalgoal wrote:We tend to place too much emphasis on our youth. It's a curse along with the obvious blessing of producing many top youth products over decades. But for every Saka, Wilshere, Ashley Cole, Adams, Keown, Thomas, Stapleton, Merson, Campbell, Rocastle, Brady, Kennedy, Rice and O'Leary, there have been Clarke, Patino, Vela, Medley, Frimpong, Hughes, Meade, Caesar, and Hillier. We shouldn't favour any youth product just because he's a youth product.

Its not a curse its called life! Most young footballers won't make it, no different to any sporting profession. Most young singers won't go on to be professional, most young actors won't end up in a feature film. Its like any industry that has fame and fortune attached to it, most people won't get to that level.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:09 pm

alexis2015finalgoal wrote:Is the point here ruthlessness or Arteta's bad squad-building?

ESR left, that's that. He wasn't going to get consistent starts. Raya was brought in as the number one, which he became and still is. He made it look like he could have "two starting keepers" but this was BS and a hair-brained scheme. We could all read between the lines and see that Raya was the intended number one.
ESR isn't a number 10 and was a wide forward in his balling days, with Odegaard as the number 10.

His plans for forwards were limited. Saka picks himself. ESR isn't a striker so can't play at number 9. and he already had Martinelli as a left wide forward and a back-up number 9. And he signed Trossard in 2023. ESR had to go.

ESR should've got consistent starts, his 2021/22 season he started in a midfield that consisted of Lokonga and Xhaka, he was our creative CM, there was no Odegaard. ESR has never been a genuine forward apart from the time Arteta tried to copy Pep and play with no recognised forward, in the Europa League against Villarreal - and we lost, he played ESR up top.

He WAS deployed twice as a WIDE forward when Odegaard arrived but otherwise, when Odegaard was there ESR played as an LCM or as an AM if Odegaard was subbed out of the game - which he was 10 times. Arteta played all sorts of formations with all sorts of personnel, if you take a look at the formations across the season you would think Arteta didn't know what he was doing.

You were the one that said ESR getting shipped out wasn't mis-treatment it was just ruthlessness. I said, if its to the detriment of the squad its stupidity. We are now cursing our "bad luck" that Odegaard is injured, considering what it is we are trying to achieve this season, we need quality in depth, there is no reason why ESR couldn't have gotten plenty of game time this season, the decision to sell him was a terrible one. ESR's quality has never been in doubt, 2 goals and an assist in 8 games for Fulham is obvious proof that all he needed was game time.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Rockape » Sat Oct 26, 2024 8:31 am

Telegraph: Mikel Arteta has revealed Arsenal’s injury problems are giving him sleepless nights.

The manager says he normally has no problem dropping off before a big game, but the lengthy list of doubts and absentees has disrupted his night-time routine as the club attempt to get their title challenge back on track following last Saturday’s shock defeat at Bournemouth.

Captain Martin Odegaard will miss tomorrow’s top-of-the-table clash with Liverpool, while Bukayo Saka faces a late fitness test. It is at the back though, where the Spaniard has his biggest headache.

William Saliba’s unavailability after his controversial red card at the Vitality Stadium last week means the manager will give possible replacements Jurrien Timber and Riccardo Calafiori until the last minute to prove their fitness. But he admitted the uncertainty was likely to rob him of his pre-match rest.

“Normally I prefer to go to bed with the line-up in my head so I can sleep like a baby,” he said. “But sometimes it cannot be as you have to wait for the next day. Sometimes two days before.

“It is not just the back line but the midfield, the front line. When you don’t have options, what do you do? You get in the shoes of the players and every time you make a decision it is a positive one for somebody and not so positive for another one.”
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby themessiah » Sat Oct 26, 2024 8:40 am

Reiss is on the same level or worse than Raheem. Who I expected a bit better from Raheem tbh. Nelson Look decent for them tbf. But Doesn’t start for Fulham anyway.

Eddie has had horror start for Palace.

I disagree about with Fabio who had to go , we have no creativity if he’s not giving time to Nwaneri. He is a kid ..if , I have to play devils advocate tbh. Anyways…Arteta should have keep the 4-4-2 formation last league game . Which was working before hand tbf . Instead of going to a triple pivot for the away game against a , mid table team. The Liverpool at home. Sunday. If we lose, title done. If we win, simply just means we got back to where we began before last weekends shit show. I don’t even know what…the back four will look like .
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby ag6789 » Sat Oct 26, 2024 9:22 am

In case of major absentees, they should play 3 at back.
Raya
White Gabriel Kiwior
Partey Jorginho Rice Merino Zinchenko
Havertz Mertinelli
Then, hope for the best.
Upfront, we'll have options in Jesus and Sterling.
In the middle, use Nwaneri and/ or Skelly if necessary at some point.
It is at the back we will be really short.
Unbelievable, after stacking up w/ so many defenders.
Any more defensive injuries, Rice plays CB. That bad.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:51 pm

This will test his management abilities, if we get whupped the Arteta groupies will have some excuses. lol
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Sat Oct 26, 2024 3:22 pm

ag6789 wrote:In case of major absentees, they should play 3 at back.
Raya
White Gabriel Kiwior
Partey Jorginho Rice Merino Zinchenko
Havertz Mertinelli
Then, hope for the best.
Upfront, we'll have options in Jesus and Sterling.
In the middle, use Nwaneri and/ or Skelly if necessary at some point.
It is at the back we will be really short.
Unbelievable, after stacking up w/ so many defenders.
Any more defensive injuries, Rice plays CB. That bad.

Not a bad shout, I would definitely swap Zinchenko for Lewis-Skelly though, think he is very assured on the ball
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Sat Oct 26, 2024 4:24 pm

Why the hell doesnt he buy a couple of strikers? Baffling
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby alexis2015finalgoal » Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:09 am

theHotHead wrote:
alexis2015finalgoal wrote:Is the point here ruthlessness or Arteta's bad squad-building?

ESR left, that's that. He wasn't going to get consistent starts. Raya was brought in as the number one, which he became and still is. He made it look like he could have "two starting keepers" but this was BS and a hair-brained scheme. We could all read between the lines and see that Raya was the intended number one.
ESR isn't a number 10 and was a wide forward in his balling days, with Odegaard as the number 10.

His plans for forwards were limited. Saka picks himself. ESR isn't a striker so can't play at number 9. and he already had Martinelli as a left wide forward and a back-up number 9. And he signed Trossard in 2023. ESR had to go.

ESR should've got consistent starts, his 2021/22 season he started in a midfield that consisted of Lokonga and Xhaka, he was our creative CM, there was no Odegaard. ESR has never been a genuine forward apart from the time Arteta tried to copy Pep and play with no recognised forward, in the Europa League against Villarreal - and we lost, he played ESR up top.

He WAS deployed twice as a WIDE forward when Odegaard arrived but otherwise, when Odegaard was there ESR played as an LCM or as an AM if Odegaard was subbed out of the game - which he was 10 times. Arteta played all sorts of formations with all sorts of personnel, if you take a look at the formations across the season you would think Arteta didn't know what he was doing.

You were the one that said ESR getting shipped out wasn't mis-treatment it was just ruthlessness. I said, if its to the detriment of the squad its stupidity. We are now cursing our "bad luck" that Odegaard is injured, considering what it is we are trying to achieve this season, we need quality in depth, there is no reason why ESR couldn't have gotten plenty of game time this season, the decision to sell him was a terrible one. ESR's quality has never been in doubt, 2 goals and an assist in 8 games for Fulham is obvious proof that all he needed was game time.


It wasn't mistreatment. the team moved on beyond him. Martinelli and Trossard played on the left and Xhaka was finally balling in 22/23 when ESR was injured. Then Rice came in as di Jorginho, so the 8 position had gone. and Trossard was balling so that left wide forward.
Was ESR willing to be a bit part player? When he was a mainstay? it's full of assumptions. Maybe he asked to leave.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Sun Oct 27, 2024 8:56 am

alexis2015finalgoal wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
alexis2015finalgoal wrote:Is the point here ruthlessness or Arteta's bad squad-building?

ESR left, that's that. He wasn't going to get consistent starts. Raya was brought in as the number one, which he became and still is. He made it look like he could have "two starting keepers" but this was BS and a hair-brained scheme. We could all read between the lines and see that Raya was the intended number one.
ESR isn't a number 10 and was a wide forward in his balling days, with Odegaard as the number 10.

His plans for forwards were limited. Saka picks himself. ESR isn't a striker so can't play at number 9. and he already had Martinelli as a left wide forward and a back-up number 9. And he signed Trossard in 2023. ESR had to go.

ESR should've got consistent starts, his 2021/22 season he started in a midfield that consisted of Lokonga and Xhaka, he was our creative CM, there was no Odegaard. ESR has never been a genuine forward apart from the time Arteta tried to copy Pep and play with no recognised forward, in the Europa League against Villarreal - and we lost, he played ESR up top.

He WAS deployed twice as a WIDE forward when Odegaard arrived but otherwise, when Odegaard was there ESR played as an LCM or as an AM if Odegaard was subbed out of the game - which he was 10 times. Arteta played all sorts of formations with all sorts of personnel, if you take a look at the formations across the season you would think Arteta didn't know what he was doing.

You were the one that said ESR getting shipped out wasn't mis-treatment it was just ruthlessness. I said, if its to the detriment of the squad its stupidity. We are now cursing our "bad luck" that Odegaard is injured, considering what it is we are trying to achieve this season, we need quality in depth, there is no reason why ESR couldn't have gotten plenty of game time this season, the decision to sell him was a terrible one. ESR's quality has never been in doubt, 2 goals and an assist in 8 games for Fulham is obvious proof that all he needed was game time.


It wasn't mistreatment. the team moved on beyond him. Martinelli and Trossard played on the left and Xhaka was finally balling in 22/23 when ESR was injured. Then Rice came in as di Jorginho, so the 8 position had gone. and Trossard was balling so that left wide forward.
Was ESR willing to be a bit part player? When he was a mainstay? it's full of assumptions. Maybe he asked to leave.

Mate - I can kill your argument with one word - Havertz !!

If the 8 role had gone why did Arteta buy Havertz who for half a season was played in the Xhaka role and failed miserably?!!

ESR was perfect to slot straight into that Xhaka role because of his natural ability to get forward and get goals.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby ag6789 » Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:46 am

Again, Xakha did a lot of defensive work ( and some dirty ones) to keep the opposition at bay; attack was about 30% of his job ( maybe a little more in his last season w/ us); ESR was/is mainly an attack minded player ( as we see him at Fulham), and never a replacement for Xakha.
In EDR's successful season w/ us( he scored 11 goals?) he exactly played like Arshavin did in his two most successful seasons w/ us; playing almost like a second striker,w/ minimum defensive duties.
Arshavin also faced similar complaints, that he doesn't fall back much to defend. It became more glaring,when he was pushed to the wings, once RVP returned fully fit.
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