Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:40 am

Santi wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Santi wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Tbh the more I’ve thought about it, the more I do blame the players. They are the ones who are once again spitting their dummies out and seemingly downing tools, Arteta hasn’t suddenly changed his ways albeit slightly tweaking the formation to try and attack more but the principles remain the same as they were when we won the FA cup
.

The principles aren't the same. We're trying to dominate possession and play higher up the pitch. We're kicking it long more instead of playing it from the back and drawing in our opponents. Xhaka is also being used to press high up the pitch as seen with that second goal where he got done by Traore. When Arteta first arrived, when he played Xhaka in a 4-2-3-1, Xhaka would rotate to cover the left flank and sit in that space left by Saka/Tierney. That hasn't been happening recently and it seems as though Tierney is way more conservative and isn't getting forward as much.


Only really in the last 2-3 games though because the 3-4-3 got boring and wasn’t working either. Prior to that it was exactly the same, hence DG and sims were banging on about formations and zones so much.

Why did the same not work from game 1-7? They were shit then and even shitter now were looking to have more of the ball. Were these players not decent when having the ball under Wenger? I ask again, why have they continually gotten worse over 3-4 years? Because they can’t be arsed and we’ve overpaid aging players.

Arteta will get the chop because the football has been atrocious but I do fear for any manager who comes in tbh. Maybe a honeymoon period again but the players attitudes are all wrong.


It's the last few games where we've dropped points against teams we should be beating and why things have just gotten worse and we're starting to ship goals. It's a clear difference in style and principle just by the way we're trying to play higher up the pitch and getting weak players like Xhaka to press high when he never use him for that role previously.


We've played shit all season, it's nothing new because of the shift to move higher up. It's just more obvious because we've got 1 less defender and actually let the goals in.

If we'd played 3-4-3 at home to Villa and sat back, everyone would crucify him as well. Many on here wanted us to go more attacking in formation, now it's the problem?

Many on here also wanted Auba up front centrally, now it's the problem?

Mental this forum. He's to blame for his shit authoritarianism and his shit subs, outside of that I lay more blame with these players not trying anymore and just being shit, particularly in their attitude.


We're more vulnerable defensively by trying to play a possession based game. I was never in favour of that but what's worse is that we're failing to hold possession or play higher up the pitch. It's all round failure.

Rather than talk in circles, I would advise tuning into Arsenal Vision Podcast more often to get a better understanding of our tactics. You're looking at things at a very surface level and rather than me attempting to explain some of our issues, it's worth tuning into a different source that goes into much greater depth. These conversations turn into a point scoring exercise with no real intent to understand the issues we're having under Arteta. It just constant trolling and I don't have the time for it.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:52 am

FARM wrote:Ach is right, everything he said has come true about Arteta.

The only thing I don't agree with him on is Giroud, the guy scored so many goals for us and vital goals too. ''Girouds not good enough, we finished 2nd''.

But the Wenger stuff he was right about and the Arteta stuff he is right about too.

I'd take credit but it was obvious he'd fail
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Santi » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:54 am

Yawn. Standard PnG response trying to patronise people like some superior human being as always.

Go back to the original comment then and stop doing your circles. The principles for the majority of this season have been the exact same as last season. For the last 2-3 games he's caved into pressure on a number of fronts (one being the back 4) and probably his own long term intentions, because the former wasn't working in any case. Now I agree that we are worse trying to play a 4-2-3-1 but as I said, we have been shit regardless and it can't all be his fault (at least not tactically and performance wise) given, for the most part, it's been the same as last season.

You can listen to however many podcasts you need to understand our tactics but I can see with my own eyes that the players are under performing compared to the end of last season.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:03 pm

Santi wrote:Yawn. Standard PnG response trying to patronise people like some superior human being as always.

Go back to the original comment then and stop doing your circles. The principles for the majority of this season have been the exact same as last season. For the last 2-3 games he's caved into pressure on a number of fronts (one being the back 4) and probably his own long term intentions, because the former wasn't working in any case. Now I agree that we are worse trying to play a 4-2-3-1 but as I said, we have been shit regardless and it can't all be his fault (at least not tactically and performance wise) given, for the most part, it's been the same as last season.

You can listen to however many podcasts you need to understand our tactics but I can see with my own eyes that the players are under performing compared to the end of last season.


Everyone can see we're under performing. That's not hard to see. But as I said before, we're not playing the same tactically and that comes back to the manager as well as issues with team selection. If we're not playing out from the back as much, if we've shifted formation and trying to play higher up the pitch earlier instead of playing it out from the back then breaking on teams quickly, how are you seeing the same principles at work?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 pm

Özim wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Özim wrote:The guy is just an awful manager, it’s not do with the players, or the luck or the ice cream van, it’s a consequence of having a guy who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.

He picks the wrong players and certain players get a free pass to perform and behave as they wish whilst others are just cut out completely, I would have thought that it would be obvious that a guy who actively promotes giving new contracts to players who regularly make costly mistakes isn’t up to it, I mean the guy wanted to re-sign Mustafi for goodness sake and has been full of praise for him and Xhaka.

The football is also dire and he’s destroyed the best part of our team the attack.

Wolves had scored 9 goals all season prior to this and they scored 2 against us without their main striker with ease.

Let’s stop blaming the players for this as at the end of the day it’s the managers job to pick them, motivate them and drill them tactically.

Ok so he won the FA cup last season, but then that’s not a measuring stick at all, Wigan won it and got relegated in the same season, the league position was more telling.

He should have never got the job as he just wasn’t qualified for it, there’s no point defending him he’s just not up to the job.


Let's also not forget his decision to continue playing Luiz despite that head injury and looking flat footed for both goals. Luiz should have been subbed. Also, leaving it very late to bring on an extra striker. These are costly decisions.


Totally right, Luiz should have gone off he wasn’t himself after that incident. Arteta just said he was fine as it was just a nasty cut, then he said he took him off at half time as he couldn’t head the ball, would have thought he should have gone off when it happened if that was the case.

I just think he makes too many odd decisions and that’s not conducive to being successful or winning.


Really worrying. So many odd decisions and it doesn't sound like it's going to get better. Did you catch his interview? He sounded stubborn and it doesn't sound like there will be a change to his approach. Delivery of the final ball and finishing aren't the only problems. It was Wengerish when he said they only had two shots on goal.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:26 pm

theHotHead wrote:One thing we can all agree on is that the link between midfiled and attack has been poor at best. while we were not conceding it wasn't the end of the world. In the past few games though that defending has been called into question massively.

I think it is ALL linked to a shit midfield. Shit at breaking up and repelling attacks, shit at setting up attacks. What has changed ? Well, ignoring the obvious exclusion, the players that have been tasked with providing something to our attackers have done a woeful job, it is clear as day, we are in a group that is creating the fewest chances in the league. Look at how little Brighton cut Liverpool apart but when we played them - and they were not at full strength in that game either - we got trounced.

We have no cutting edge, we have nothing good happening during that phase of play. Ceballos who has been dogshit all season, Xhaka who we all know cannot defend for shit and Willock who, I am sorry, is a waste of space in the Premier league was our starting midfield against a very decent team. How the f**k did Arteta expect a good outcome with that lot ?!!

Its ALL on Arteta, the midfield is the problem - at both ends of the pitch.


Midfield is the heart of it all and I can't understand the decisions being made. Last game against Molde he said the game was too open and he's right because it was a back and forth game we didn't control.

Against Molde he played Xhaka, Willock and Laca as the midfield trio. Laca at the top as the AM/SS/FW. The line up alone shows you won't get much security or ball protection from this lot. I would have thought he'd see the problem. But yesterday he still plays Xhaka, brings in Ceballos and has Willock playing the Lacazette role. It was bound to be just as open as the Molde game but with less of an attacking threat down the wings because we didn't have Pepe and left Nelson out. Madness.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:50 pm

Santi wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Santi wrote:And when he kept Auba on the left were people also not crying for him to play centrally? We’ve been wank all season and he had to try and change something...it didn’t work clearly.

Hopefully we’ll see lacabeast restored next game since he loves scoring against the Spuds anyway and get Auba back on the left.

As for playing these mysterious best players, who aren’t we playing? The only consistent performers are the 3 I listed that have the better attitude. What exactly was wrong with the lineup last night? Aside from Willian (who actually looked remotely better than usual) and maybe Xhaka for Covid Elneny then what else do we have?

They’re not playing for him anymore and that should be blamed on both parties not just the manager. However, players should be professional and want to win in spite of a manager.

Anyway I’ve messaged Auba to sort his shit out so we’ll win the league from here lads.


Things don’t always work out even with the best of clubs but when they don’t work out you don’t make wholesale changes, just minor tweaks. We know Aubameyang’s best position is playing off another striker. Bar Martinelli, who’s injured, we know lacazette is currently our best striker in a formation that uses one striker up top. We know a list of players who should never start for us if we have the means to do so. We know which formation we’ve had the most success with.

What exactly was wrong with the lineup last night and who are these mysterious players we aren’t playing, you ask?

We played PEA as the solo striker and did not use a strategy for him to be effective there
We had our best available striker in Lacazette on the bench
We continue to start players who have shown are serious weak links for us in Xhaka, Luiz, and soon to be Willian despite having better options available in Elneny, arguably Saliba, Nelson, and arguably Pepe
We had one of our best available CMs in Elneny on the bench who should be starting ahead of Willock or Xhaka
We played a 4-3-3 variation when recent record shows a 3-4-3 type formation was the way to go


Elneny has just come back from Covid, Salah who is arguably world class even got hooked after 60 mins to protect him after the same. It's hardly a surprise he didn't feel Elneny was up to starting, particularly as his strength is his energy.

People have been crying for PEA through the middle, he does that and now gets criticised for that having persisted with him on the left for a long time.

Laca I love but he has been wank since Arteta dropped him earlier in the season, at least on the goals front.

Saliba arguably better than Luiz? Give me a break crimson, Luiz has been largely solid over recent months and has shown some of his best form since the City shocker. I don't like him either but he's probably our 2nd best CB, at least not much between him, Holding and Mustafi tbh.

I mentioned Willian, only one who could start over him was Nelson. Agree a mistake but end of the day Willian got an assist and actually offered more than normal yesterday so maybe was the right call based on our options. Pepe is banned for 3 games so why mention him? Plus he's been just as bad as Willian.

Xhaka had to start because Partey is out.

I just don't see how he could've made the lineup much better yesterday, I dislike half the players myself but that's who we have. The biggest difference would've been with Laca in for Willock tbh but he's been off form and Willock done alright in the EL.

Other times he has made odd selections, persisting with favourites but don't think yesterday was one of them. Now if we were to talk about the subs or caving in in the first place to fan pressure and putting Auba up top then yes, 100% he is to blame for those decisions.


Saw Elneny on the bench so assumed he was fit enough to start. If not why waste a bench space. Poor decision by the manager here IMO

I, for one, have never been a huge fan of starting Aubameyang as the solo striker. Managers fault if he can’t see the issue with this.

Lacazette, wank or not, is our best available striker at least until Martinelli returns or Balogun is ready to be trusted in these type of games. Poor from Arteta leaving him out IMO. Especially in a home game where we could have used his dogged determination

If Saliba plays anywhere near how he does for St Etienne on YouTube and if the hype surrounding him is accurate then yes he’s many times better than Luiz who’s a constant mistake waiting to happen. The only reason I can think of why he isn’t starting is probably a mental thing. Ability wise I think he should be one of the first names on the team sheet

Forgot Pepe was banned. Willian has been poor recently and as many on here have said he should not be rewarded with starts. Nelson certainly deserves a chance all things considered. Bad management by Arteta here

Xhaka does not have to start if we have other pairs that are better. Maybe for this game he did because of Elneny and COVID. But going forward, when all are fit, Partey, Elneny, ceballos, and possibly azeez should all be considered ahead of Xhaka for the cm pair

Besides all this one of the biggest mistake Arteta made yesterday was not playing a 3-4-3 type formation given the information he has at his disposal wrt our best formation
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(Turner/Hein)
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
(Tomiyasu/Niles) (Timber/Holding) (Trusty/Kiwior) (Tierney/Tavares)
Odegaard(c) —- Rice
(Xhaka/Lokonga) —- (Partey/Elneny)
Havertz
(Jorginho/Vieira)
Saka Jesus Martinelli
(Pepe/Nelson) (Nketiah/Balogun) (Trossard/ESR)


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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:53 pm

Disappointed that Arteta has not been sacked by now.
He inherited a mess, but he's made it worse.
I also could believe what he said before the game.
Instead of giving the team confidence, he decided to make excuses for himself, saying it was going to take several transfer windows to fix things. That MIGHT be true, but it is NOT what the players need to hear just before a game.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:01 pm

jayramfootball wrote:Disappointed that Arteta has not been sacked by now.
He inherited a mess, but he's made it worse.
I also could believe what he said before the game.
Instead of giving the team confidence, he decided to make excuses for himself, saying it was going to take several transfer windows to fix things. That MIGHT be true, but it is NOT what the players need to hear just before a game.


He was never right for the club, cheap option that has backfired on us, clueless manager, sooner he goes the better cheap experiment that didn't work sack him and let's get a proper manager in.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby elkanofan » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:17 pm

So...

Does anyone have faith Arteta can turn this around?

I really don't know where we go from here.

What concerned me this most right now is he's changing formations a lot now and still nothing working.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:26 pm

https://twitter.com/Tomthegunner/status/1333360110010331136?s=19

This is disgusting. Our midfield is non existent. What the heck is Arteta doing? Hardly anything through the middle.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:36 pm

elkanofan wrote:So...

Does anyone have faith Arteta can turn this around?

I really don't know where we go from here.

What concerned me this most right now is he's changing formations a lot now and still nothing working.


I was willing to give him time even if we underachieved this season but given some of his decisions lately, this season should ultimately determine whether we persist with him or not. Assuming no serious injuries, CL qualification via the league should be the deciding factor. If circumstances make that impossible then CL qualification via the EL should be the deciding factor. If at any point during the season it's becoming crystal clear that we won't reach these objectives then Arteta should be sacked at the next best opportunity
Ramsdale
(Turner/Hein)
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
(Tomiyasu/Niles) (Timber/Holding) (Trusty/Kiwior) (Tierney/Tavares)
Odegaard(c) —- Rice
(Xhaka/Lokonga) —- (Partey/Elneny)
Havertz
(Jorginho/Vieira)
Saka Jesus Martinelli
(Pepe/Nelson) (Nketiah/Balogun) (Trossard/ESR)


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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby coach8smallball » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:40 pm

#artetaout

he's in over his head and needs to go. bring in ten Hag, Poch or Allegri
cheers!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:52 pm

elkanofan wrote:So...

Does anyone have faith Arteta can turn this around?

I really don't know where we go from here.

What concerned me this most right now is he's changing formations a lot now and still nothing working.


I've lost all faith in him. The players will too and things can only get worse.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:53 pm

With great power comes great responsibility. He took the Manager's promotion, he needs to accept full responsibility. He had the power to make significant changes this season. Lets look at the squad, 31 players in total:
3 goalkeepers
8 CBs
2 LBs
2 RBs
9 Midfielders
7 Forwards/strikers/wingers

Someone tell me why in blazes we need 8 CBs !! Someone else tell me why of the 9 midfielders only 2 are recognised as attacking central midfielders and one of them is not registered to play and the other one has had a total of 97 minutes Premier League football in his entire career (ESR).

The balance of the squad is screwed, we are defensive heavy, we can lose half of the CBs and not notice a damn thing. Is it any wonder we can't create anyting when only one player in our ENTIRE squad is an experienced, recognised attacking central midfielder - and he has been exiled.
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