Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

[Angelito]

I don't want to say it but if Arteta fails we may need a Brendon Rodgers type.

Someone who is used to making the best system from the team he's handed rather than these managers who have fancy ideas of philosophy but without the budget to forge that kind of team.

Pep, Klopp etc play one way and excellent at it but what happens when they go to a club who can't or won't buy them the team they want?

That's why we got passed up from so many managers after Wenger left, all of them gave us a pass.

The thing is we royally screwed up the post-Wenger transition. Wenger and Gazidis left months apart. Mislintat left after Sanllehi was appointed our Head of Football. We hired Edu, but Sanllehi was sacked a few months later.

You can't be having a directorial merry-go-round at a club. It's reckless. It says a lot about the lack of leadership.

Dein was at Arsenal for 24 years. Wenger stayed for 22 years. Even Ivan was here for 9 years.

If you look at Chelsea's model, Marina has been Chelsea's DoF since 2003, since Abramovich bought them. So, as many managers they've changed since, Marina has been a constant.

The way I see it, we need to sack Edu before Arteta if it comes down to it. I don't think Edu is up for it.

And, a hot take, we have to invite Wenger back into the board. We need football people here. We need football people who are competent and understand Arsenal.

With Edu and Josh in charge, it's looking like a doll's house.

[Power n Glory]

I don't want Wenger back in that sort of role. I'm sure he loves the club but it's a bad idea. What would be the benefit considering what he was oversaw as manager?

- He was unable or unwilling to convince the Kroenke's to spend money from their own pocket to help us buy better players.

- The silly social wage structure was part of his philosophy. That crippled our clubs ability to reward and retain key players whilst overpaying average players.

- The 1 year 30+ contract policy was his idea and something that led to us stripping away experienced talent way too early. It kept ex players away from the club when they should have been coaching here.

- Lack of changes to the backroom staff. Just as above, he kept old and out of date coaches on here for far too long. You should listen to his interview on the Tuesday Club and how he speaks about Pat Rice. That said a lot about why he never coached a successor.

-Lack of changes to the infrastructure in general. - including medical staff/ facilities and out dated training methods that led to injury after injury.....

- The laziness and lack of character we see on the pitch comes back to the way Wenger ran things. Players turned up when they felt like it and Ozil was even allowed to take away days off.

- Failing to produce a star from our academy. I have no idea what there potential could have been but I look at Gnarby and wonder if he'd have reached such levels he had stayed at Arsenal.

- The endless anecdotes of nearly signing Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe....etc...it just shows a lack of conviction to convince the club to buy world class players. If he really had the foresight to see where these players were heading in the world of football he should have fought tooth and nail to get them signed. Instead we end up Gervinho types, Chamakh's and Xhaka.

I'm all for more footballers back at this club but I wouldn't want Wenger back having the strongest voice in the room. It's what led to this disaster we now see.

[EliteKiller]

And, a hot take, we have to invite Wenger back into the board. We need football people here. We need football people who are competent and understand Arsenal.

With Edu and Josh in charge, it's looking like a doll's house.

Because let's not forget it was Arsene taking over full control and implementing bizarre socialist policies that set the runaway train in motion ...so sure bringing him back makes perfect sense.

[Salibatelli]

brendan rodgers would be a disaster

he needs a ready made defence, he cannot build one

his teams are often exposed at the back

and his teams gas out towards the end of the season

no thanks.

Rogers is a very good manager, light years ahead of Arteta and proven at every club he’s been to, he’s able to build a team, is very tactically astute and his teams tend to be towards the top of the table.

There’s other decent options out there of course, but I wouldn’t rule out Rogers, if not for that uncharacteristic Gerard mistake he’d had won the title with Liverpool.

[swipe right]

I don't want to say it but if Arteta fails we may need a Brendon Rodgers type.

Someone who is used to making the best system from the team he's handed rather than these managers who have fancy ideas of philosophy but without the budget to forge that kind of team.

Pep, Klopp etc play one way and excellent at it but what happens when they go to a club who can't or won't buy them the team they want?

That's why we got passed up from so many managers after Wenger left, all of them gave us a pass.

The thing is we royally screwed up the post-Wenger transition. Wenger and Gazidis left months apart. Mislintat left after Sanllehi was appointed our Head of Football. We hired Edu, but Sanllehi was sacked a few months later.

You can't be having a directorial merry-go-round at a club. It's reckless. It says a lot about the lack of leadership.

Dein was at Arsenal for 24 years. Wenger stayed for 22 years. Even Ivan was here for 9 years.

If you look at Chelsea's model, Marina has been Chelsea's DoF since 2003, since Abramovich bought them. So, as many managers they've changed since, Marina has been a constant.

The way I see it, we need to sack Edu before Arteta if it comes down to it. I don't think Edu is up for it.

And, a hot take, we have to invite Wenger back into the board. We need football people here. We need football people who are competent and understand Arsenal.

With Edu and Josh in charge, it's looking like a doll's house.

I like the way you think

[Phil71]

I love Wenger but I wouldn't want him on the board or in any position of influence at the club.

Give him an honorary role such as Life President so that he can represent the club in other ways.

[theHotHead]

Well at this point I wouldn't mind Wenger advising Arteta on the offensive side of the game, anything else, no thank you.

[Salibatelli]

Wenger is one of the big reasons we are where we are (he also gave Arteta a glowing reference re becoming a manager, that should have been enough to steer clear), wouldn’t want him anywhere near the club to be honest, not in any kind of footballing capacity anyway.

We need winners not people content with top 4. He should have quit years ago, had he done so his legacy wouldn’t have been tainted.

[Ach]

Wenger is one of the big reasons we are where we are (he also gave Arteta a glowing reference re becoming a manager, that should have been enough to steer clear), wouldn’t want him anywhere near the club to be honest, not in any kind of footballing capacity anyway.

We need winners not people content with top 4.

Pretty much. Big reason we are playing the pass pass pass pass crap

[Highbury Hillbilly]

Wenger already has his perfect job ... global football development at FIFA. Helping grow the game at grassroots level around the world, which is probably what he prefers to do now anyway.

Modern football is too different from what Wenger is used to.
-- He hasn't developed any young players of note since Fabregas in the mid-2000s.

-- He will always feel aggrieved by stuff like FFP's toothlessness. While's he's not wrong, he needed to get over it because those were the cards he was dealt, and he couldn't. He used FFP to counter criticisms of his results and tactics, even as skint teams like Spurs regularly finished above him in the table.

-- He sees himself as the last of the 'generational' managers, like SAF at Utd or Ancelotti at Milan. He wouldn't know how to work with a club where decision making power is split between several people.

[gamechannel]

Bring Wenger home if (and hopefully when) Arteta gets the sack. We won't defend for shit but at least we will play some form of attacking football and score goals from open play.

[Nuggets]

Wenger is one of the big reasons we are where we are (he also gave Arteta a glowing reference re becoming a manager, that should have been enough to steer clear), wouldn’t want him anywhere near the club to be honest, not in any kind of footballing capacity anyway.

We need winners not people content with top 4. He should have quit years ago, had he done so his legacy wouldn’t have been tainted.

[VCC]

Wenger is one of the big reasons we are where we are (he also gave Arteta a glowing reference re becoming a manager, that should have been enough to steer clear), wouldn’t want him anywhere near the club to be honest, not in any kind of footballing capacity anyway.

We need winners not people content with top 4. He should have quit years ago, had he done so his legacy wouldn’t have been tainted.

Might want to add players willing to front up at away games in that as well

[Phil71]

Wenger is one of the big reasons we are where we are (he also gave Arteta a glowing reference re becoming a manager, that should have been enough to steer clear), wouldn’t want him anywhere near the club to be honest, not in any kind of footballing capacity anyway.

We need winners not people content with top 4. He should have quit years ago, had he done so his legacy wouldn’t have been tainted.

I don't believe footballing Wenger was ever satisfied with top four. I think it killed him every year we didn't win the league.

I think finances Wenger was, however. I think with the two roles on his plate, he did take some solace from the financial benefits of top four weighed against not winning.

That was the primary issue with Wenger's tenure following the departure of David Dein. From a footballing perspective it was a disastrous conflict of interest. I'm sure the owners knew that, but they had no reason to do anything about it as it suited their agenda perfectly. Not only did they not have a football manager knocking on their door for more money, they had one taking an active interest in their financial investment.

I believe Wenger was always convinced in his own mind that on balance he was acting in the best interests of the club - unwaveringly.

[thebigbangtheo]

Wenger is one of the big reasons we are where we are (he also gave Arteta a glowing reference re becoming a manager, that should have been enough to steer clear), wouldn’t want him anywhere near the club to be honest, not in any kind of footballing capacity anyway.

We need winners not people content with top 4. He should have quit years ago, had he done so his legacy wouldn’t have been tainted.

I don't believe footballing Wenger was ever satisfied with top four. I think it killed him every year we didn't win the league.

I think finances Wenger was, however. I think with the two roles on his plate, he did take some solace from the financial benefits of top four weighed against not winning.

That was the primary issue with Wenger's tenure following the departure of David Dein. From a footballing perspective it was a disastrous conflict of interest. I'm sure the owners knew that, but they had no reason to do anything about it as it suited their agenda perfectly. Not only did they not have a football manager knocking on their door for more money, they had one taking an active interest in their financial investment.

I believe Wenger was always convinced in his own mind that on balance he was acting in the best interests of the club - unwaveringly.

I very much agree with your very rational assessment of that situation Phil71, as that's pretty much how I saw things too, and to the point that I believe that Wenger actually became his own worst enemy when blinded by his love of the club.

With all this talk that Arteta is out of his depth which to be fair has been tabled by some from day one, there's a difference between being inexperienced and having to learn pdq on the fly, and a job being too much for your capabilities to handle.

Just like every single manager there's ever been, Mourinho, Guardiola and Klopp were once inexperienced and a bit wet behind the ears as the saying goes, but they were given a chance to even prove to themselves first and foremost that they could make a go of this football manager lark. As Bob Marley so eloquently put it, even the biggest man you ever did see was once just a baby.

I have no doubt that there are numerous others that could be referenced here, but the only managers that I can immediately recall looking like they'd been thrown into the deep end with a ships anchor chained to an ankle are Steve Kean at Blackburn Rovers, and the fella at Charlton Athletic whose surname slips my mind but I'm sure his christian name was Les.

Where I do admit to having some real concerns about our manager though, lie purely with his dealing with some of our players.

Yes he may have observed Pep being absolutely brutal in his demand for par excellence from his players, but in having proven to be like a living embodiment of the Rosetta stone, players will afford him the leeway to be the pied Piper and dance to his tune because he has earned it first, not just come along and demanded it. The Pep who took over from Frank Rykaard at Barca would simply get schooled by the Pep of today.

Arteta's willingness to put himself front and centre for the club regards the saga of Ozil is a bit misguided to me and probably down to his gratitude in being given his dream opportunity, but if he thinks it's the same as when Mourinho would make sure that the focus was squarely on him in a self sacrificial way and not his players whenever Chelsea slipped up, it's not.

The likes of Ozil, Pepe, Guendouzi, Saliba, Torreira, Willock etc, do not need a Darth Vader practicing his death grip at the helm right now. Rather, their need is for a Bagger Vance or a Maximus Daridios to show them the way forward, although I would be tempted to let lord Vader have his way with Bellerin, Willian and Holding right now.